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The New Prem MM, Super Persh & JT 88

premium tanks new matchmaker Jagdtiger 88 T26E4

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ArmouredElephant #21 Posted 23 May 2018 - 01:38 PM

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View PostRaptorAbt, on 23 May 2018 - 05:23 AM, said:

I wonder what they will do to the T14 ? :coin:

There are a lot of low tier tanks that won't stand a chance without buffs (valentine II)

View PostsgtYester, on 22 May 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:

when will the kanonenjagdpanzer get buffed????? they were looking at installin a 105 gun... but what happened??

http://forum.worldof...__fromsearch__1 that's already "in game" as a separate vehicle, it would be nice if they do a a swap

View PostAuroraBoreaIis, on 22 May 2018 - 10:49 AM, said:

I think (hope) they'll turn it into the Jagdtiger (H), which is already in the game files as a tier 8 premium. It's essentially a stock Jagdtiger (so with the 'short' 128 mm gun). Of course it has to be balanced around the Ferdinand. 

 

Imo it's the only way to balance this at tier 8 with full mm. I don't think fixing the long 88 on this platform can be done at this tier, without premium mm. On the other hand, balancing it with the 128mm while still keeping it fun to play is possible I think. 

 

Alternatively, I would also accept downgrading it to tier 7, with compensation. 

 

Anyway, I restored my JT 88 in hopes for the first option. 

 

 

Also wonder what will be the plan with IS-6, 112, WZ-111, Type 59 and FCM 50t (am I still missing tanks?)

I added a 3rd option, replace it with the "Porsche" suspension variant

View PostGvozdika, on 22 May 2018 - 07:39 AM, said:

A few problems with those ideas. 

 

JT 8.8 - the main issue it has is not just the long 88 (which is pretty bad vs. T8s and T9s at the moment - will be useless vs T10s) but a distinct lack of armour (only the superstructure is remotely tough - even then only vs T7 or less) AND mobility. The only reason the T9 JT isn't extinct is that epic long 128cm cannon - yet if you drop in anything other than a long 88 in the JT 8.8 - you no longer have a JT 8.8! You could buff the long 88 quite a bit but you still have a big, slow, easy-to-spot target that gets stuffed over by arty, premium rounds of lower tiers and most T8+ regular rounds. That's why the Tiger II is probably one of the worst T8 heavies at the moment - the 105 gun is actually not too bad but the chassis is no longer tough or mobile enough to do well in higher-tier matches. 

 

You *could* drop it down a tier - but then it wouldn't provide the same XP/credit gain as it would at T8. It would also be *worth* less as a T7 premium than a T8 premium - effectively devaluing your original purchase.

 

Super Pershing probably just needs a decent mobility upgrade to bring it closer to it's regular Pershing counterpart (slightly less mobility than the tech-tree option though) and you'd have a reasonably durable medium-heavy hybrid. Or they keep it just as slow but beef up the bolt-on armour plate to be a bit more resistant vs. high-power rounds at range - keep the existing weakspots to enable low-tiers to hurt them at shorter distances. It is probably the one of the few pref-MM tanks which will probably not need much tweaking to make it suitable for +2 MM. 

 

a dpm buff to 4 or 3.5 sec with increased pen will certainly make this interesting or replace its gun with the "stock 128"

View PostIZMIR_METRO, on 22 May 2018 - 07:44 AM, said:

Wargaming won't even care about ideas on Pref MM tanks on EU forum sadly, as a JG88 owner I can say that chassis and hull is complete trash in current meta. The only thing can save JG88 is Skorp G's gun.

Look no further there is a 3rd option (off topic* I just wish there was a Skorpion G without the crappy looking camo...)



vixu #22 Posted 23 May 2018 - 03:13 PM

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SP needs 3 things:
- higher pen

- faster rof

- way faster speed

 

Then it will be pretty good. IT will ofc be a fodder in tX game. But, again, most t8 are not. In reality, wg should already remove the outdated +- tiers mm, and use only same tiers.



sgtYester #23 Posted 24 May 2018 - 05:10 PM

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View PostRaptorAbt, on 23 May 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

I wonder what they will do to the T14 ? :coin:

 

the balancing department has forgotten that this thing excists despite the 8 times a year its being sold.  this tank is in wot from the start and 1 time a little pen buff? it needs some buffs to be worth it these days.

 

whenever it sees a kv1/kv1-s matilda...ur dead



Grand_Moff_Tano #24 Posted 25 May 2018 - 12:34 PM

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View PostArmouredElephant, on 22 May 2018 - 12:47 PM, said:

1) Lower it's HP to 1000 and move it to tier 7 and reimburse the players with 2-3K gold (the ones that want to keep it)

This would be the best option for the Panzerjager VIB JagdTiger PaK 44, but also offer a free replacement to the 12,8cm version which is at Tier 8 and in the game files as a premium. However it would be completely dependent on whether it is competitive and not OP at Tier 7.


Edited by Grand_Moff_Tano, 25 May 2018 - 12:37 PM.


Hezs #25 Posted 25 May 2018 - 12:40 PM

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View PostArmouredElephant, on 22 May 2018 - 12:47 PM, said:

As we all know there have been discussions about mm change, it's not something new, but they are getting serious about it. I am not against such changes,and the only reason some premium tanks got limited mm in the first place, was a lack in the armaments & armour department ( most obvious example would be KV5, big target with a weak gun & plenty of weakspots).

 

First, let's discuss the Jagdtiger 88mm 

 

It has weak gun (for it's tier) , that fires pretty fast (4.46 with BiA) and it's a pretty slow vehicle with good armour. As far as I can see, three things can be done about it : 

 

1) Lower it's HP to 1000 and move it to tier 7 and reimburse the players with 2-3K gold (the ones that want to keep it)

2) Give the 88mm same characteristics as the 88 L/100 with (223 AP)  and a bit more damage (280 instead of 240?) while keeping the rest, as to not put the Ferdinand to shame...

3) Drop the 88 and give the 128 with appropriate adjustments . Maybe use the Porsche suspension so it visually looks different compared to tier IX Henschel.

 

 

 

I don't think that the 223/261 pen for the JT would be enough. 

 

JT 88 is a tricky tank to balance, because the puny 88mm L/71 is so weak in its current state. Here is what I suggest:

 

Buff the 88m L/71 gun penetration to same level what tanks like Progetto Mod 46, Mutz, AMX CDC, Pantera 44:

From 203/237 to 212/259.

Then Buff the 88mm L/100 gun penetration from 223/261 to 235/285. 

 

JT88 could use the premium ammo from the L/71 gun as the standard ammo, and premium ammo from the L/100 gun.

Thus it would have penetration of 259/285mm. 

 

How is it possible to use premium ammo from the longer L/100 gun, that I don't know, but I don't see any other way to be competitive against tier 10 with tanks with 240 alpha damage.  

 

Panther II and Panther 88 would also get pen buff with these changes, along with Tiger I, Steyr wft, Nashorn, Jagdpanther and VK4503. L/100 gun could actually be useful in the E50 also. 



Gremlin182 #26 Posted 25 May 2018 - 12:45 PM

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Spaced armour on my TOG II please

If I have to become a pinata for tier 8ts lets make it difficult for them

 



ArmouredElephant #27 Posted 25 May 2018 - 02:54 PM

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View PostHezs, on 25 May 2018 - 05:40 AM, said:

 

I don't think that the 223/261 pen for the JT would be enough. 

 

JT 88 is a tricky tank to balance, because the puny 88mm L/71 is so weak in its current state. Here is what I suggest:

 

Buff the 88m L/71 gun penetration to same level what tanks like Progetto Mod 46, Mutz, AMX CDC, Pantera 44:

From 203/237 to 212/259.

Then Buff the 88mm L/100 gun penetration from 223/261 to 235/285. 

 

JT88 could use the premium ammo from the L/71 gun as the standard ammo, and premium ammo from the L/100 gun.

Thus it would have penetration of 259/285mm. 

 

How is it possible to use premium ammo from the longer L/100 gun, that I don't know, but I don't see any other way to be competitive against tier 10 with tanks with 240 alpha damage.  

 

Panther II and Panther 88 would also get pen buff with these changes, along with Tiger I, Steyr wft, Nashorn, Jagdpanther and VK4503. L/100 gun could actually be useful in the E50 also. 

 

I'm leaning more towards my 3rd option of making it a stock Jagdtiger... compared to the Skorpion it's slower, and has no turret however I think the Ferdinand could use a small buff since a lot of tanks can easily take it out from the front nowadays....(wish I could say replace it with the Elefant, but that one has a small turret and a hull mg with Armour around it, and wider tracks, which could be used a reason to buff it's traverse and speed on soft ground ?)

Grand_Moff_Tano #28 Posted 25 May 2018 - 02:56 PM

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View PostArmouredElephant, on 25 May 2018 - 01:54 PM, said:

 

I'm leaning more towards my 3rd option of making it a stock Jagdtiger... compared to the Skorpion it's slower, and has no turret however I think the Ferdinand could use a small buff since a lot of tanks can easily take it out from the front nowadays....(wish I could say replace it with the Elefant, but that one has a small turret and a hull mg with Armour around it, and wider tracks, which could be used a reason to buff it's traverse and speed on soft ground ?)

 

Why not your first and third option at the same time, since, assuming it can be balanced for Tier 7, the PaK 44 would be excellent without being OP.

ArmouredElephant #29 Posted 25 May 2018 - 03:13 PM

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View PostGrand_Moff_Tano, on 25 May 2018 - 07:56 AM, said:

 

Why not your first and third option at the same time, since, assuming it can be balanced for Tier 7, the PaK 44 would be excellent without being OP.

 

        I know it's late for this kind of stuff I always liked historical things, and when you think of Jagdtigers you don't think of the 88 mm (which BTW, there are no pictures of the JT that have the 8.8 mounted, and supposedly it happened) on top of that, moving it from tier 8 to 7 should be only used as a last resort I think, since the earning potential will be reduced considerably... 

       As I was saying above, the Jagdtiger with aligned road wheels, would be a nice replacement make it slightly different from the regular Henschel version, and give it a nice bite fighting them obj 252's and such.

     

 



Simeon85 #30 Posted 25 May 2018 - 03:27 PM

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View PostArmouredElephant, on 22 May 2018 - 01:47 PM, said:

As we all know there have been discussions about mm change, it's not something new, but they are getting serious about it. I am not against such changes,and the only reason some premium tanks got limited mm in the first place, was a lack in the armaments & armour department ( most obvious example would be KV5, big target with a weak gun & plenty of weakspots).

 

First, let's discuss the Jagdtiger 88mm 

 

It has weak gun (for it's tier) , that fires pretty fast (4.46 with BiA) and it's a pretty slow vehicle with good armour. As far as I can see, three things can be done about it : 

 

1) Lower it's HP to 1000 and move it to tier 7 and reimburse the players with 2-3K gold (the ones that want to keep it)

2) Give the 88mm same characteristics as the 88 L/100 with (223 AP)  and a bit more damage (280 instead of 240?) while keeping the rest, as to not put the Ferdinand to shame...

3) Drop the 88 and give the 128 with appropriate adjustments . Maybe use the Porsche suspension so it visually looks different compared to tier IX Henschel.

 

And now the T26E4

 

This bad boy has gone through quite a few changes, at one point becoming the opposite of Super... anyways, this is way simpler than the JT

 

- this is medium in game but let's face it it's an assault tank... give it the same pen as T26E5 230 AP; and since this game stopped being historical long ago, might as well fit it with the Continental AV 1790/1  (704hp) this way the regular M46 will still get a better engine, everyone wins.

 

Note* These are just 2 tanks that I am interested in and would like to keep, however there are other tanks ( ex: FCM 50T) that need some decent buffs to be made competitive against higher tiers.

 

 

IMO the Jt88 armour model seems a bit too strong for tier 7, you need more than 200 pen to go through it frontally anywhere and it would now be seeing tier 5s, most tier 6s and many tier 7s it would basically be immune to.

 

It didn't get the LFP nerf the Tiger 2 and regular JagdTiger models got, so it's lower plate is about 200 effective and the old machine gun port weakspot is gone. 






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