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Tier VII heavies vs Tier IX heavies


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CNS97 #1 Posted 23 May 2018 - 09:08 AM

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It seems really ridiculous to have tier VII heavies against tier IX heavies in the game. One can't do much and its not easy to survive. Sometimes its not easy to penetrate tier VIII heavies, let alone tier IX heavies.

I think the game should be more balanced. 



WhoCares01 #2 Posted 23 May 2018 - 09:29 AM

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Make that lights/meds vs +1/2 meds/heavies. And then give those lights/meds stock guns and 50-80% bottom tier - enjoy!

I just started grinding the Pershing - let's just say Frontline is a godsend, but getting the daily victory in randoms on the other hand...


Edited by WhoCares01, 23 May 2018 - 09:32 AM.


Agent_327 #3 Posted 23 May 2018 - 09:33 AM

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It's a team game and you're not supposed to handle everything yourself. -It is balanced in that you have an equal opposed tier VII heavy that you can fight.

Enforcer1975 #4 Posted 23 May 2018 - 09:36 AM

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How about you try fighting the other 7 tanks of your tier? Even +1 shouldn't be too difficult since it's only 5 of them. If you can't fight them support your top and mid tiers from the second or third line but don't snipe. The more tanks the enemy has to shoot at the more the damage is split up. Nothing is worse than when 10 tanks push into 5 tanks and suddenly 7 of them stop for no reason.

Suurpolskija #5 Posted 23 May 2018 - 09:45 AM

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Make that any heavy / medium tank with +2 MM.

 

Lights can spot on some maps, but mostly they're screwed anyway. Some TD's might have enough standard pen to do alright in +2 MM, but most wont. Arty doesn't care. Arty likes it when it's bottom tier.



Aikl #6 Posted 23 May 2018 - 09:53 AM

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It's arguably not great game design that a tank's main feature is useless 50% of the time (bit of an exaggeration), and that you're constantly forced to rely on "teamplay", i.e. you're at the mercy of your team when it comes to winning or not, because your tank doesn't have the capability to carry on your own.

 

The suggestion to fight only same-tier opponents make little sense. Both teams' low-tier tanks are forced to hang back in safe-ish positions. You don't get to fight them just because you want to. Playing passively to wait for enemy bottom-tiers leaves your team at a disadvantage. Even the idea of 'support' is flawed; it's not particularly easy to 'support' a chokepoint or a corner brawl.

 

Even if, top-tier tanks are not automatically willing to play to those rules. Obviously. One can always play 'support' even harder - but where's the fun in that? There's a reason why Counter-Strike doesn't randomly limit the gun selection for half the team. It wouldn't be fun at all. Of course, different game model and whatnot - but still.
A major issue related to the matchmaker is the massive gaps between tiers. The idea behind that is to encourage progress - which tend to require some investment (time and/or money). Playing T10 (and to some degree T9) defeats the major issues of the matchmaking (though being on top in a 3-5-7 stomp isn't that much fun when you know how crap half the tanks on the enemy team is) - but again requires you to find ways of farming credits to keep playing T10. That part of the game design is fair enough in my book. The tier gaps are not.

 

As it happens, WoT happens to be a harsh but extremely effective implementation of a 'freemium' game model. There are certainly ways to make it more enjoyable. Question is if that will impact profits or not. I would suspect not; it's practically a self-admitted issue that WoT is not very friendly to beginners.

(That other tank game is not a walk in the park either, but much more fun simply by virtue of being generally more useful in any given match. Being able to select which tank you start with helps a lot too. A Panther and a Tiger allows you a lot of flexibility that simply isn't there in WoT.)


Edited by Aikl, 23 May 2018 - 09:56 AM.


Balc0ra #7 Posted 23 May 2018 - 09:53 AM

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You deal with it the same way your tier 6 dealt with tier 8 armor. Let your top tiers deal with it. In a +2 game your role is not head on brawler vs their top tier armor. Stay behind your tier 9 HT and help anyway you can. Even on secondary targets you know you can pen. As any gun you take out, are less guns hitting your top tier. Be that a KV-3 or a Tiger II. And if you know you can't pen anything on the HT line, then go the med line. Be that due to lack of weakspot knowledge or pen. As there is no point going there if you are not gonna do anything.

 

Then again how does your T32 deal with it? As he has the same gun as the T29, and that pen is not even great vs some of the tier 8 armor. And your IS has low pen for a tier 7 HT, but it's traded off with high alpha. So in that, you really need to know the weakest part of most armor if you want to push head on with it in a +1 game even. If not then go wide if you outgun them. Anything not aiming at you is free damage, just make sure he don't have hidden support guns at the back covering him. If not... then flank it so you can pen it. Most HT's when outgunned are terrible multitaskers. Jap HT's even more so. Use it.

 

Because atm some HT's are part of the old meta, and it is what it is for now. If you want to grind that line, you just have to stick with it and bend the rules a little in terms of roles.


Edited by Balc0ra, 23 May 2018 - 09:55 AM.


OneSock #8 Posted 23 May 2018 - 10:02 AM

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Pretty much every tier 7 gun will go through the side of a tier 9 HT.  You just have to get yourself into a position to do it. You don't have to face down the enemy top tier, that is up to your own top tier to do. You are there to assist them to get the job done.

 

You can help by absorbing a few shots, shooting your own counterparts, or shooting them with HE.

 

I always carry a good few HE rounds for when I encounter something I can't pen. with a well aimed HE shot you can knock out crew/modules/tracks etc. This should all help your top tier to take down the enemy.


Remember it's a team game, not a solo activity. 



Ze_HOFF_fverhoef #9 Posted 23 May 2018 - 10:04 AM

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View PostCNS97, on 23 May 2018 - 08:08 AM, said:

It seems really ridiculous to have tier VII heavies against tier IX heavies in the game. One can't do much and its not easy to survive. Sometimes its not easy to penetrate tier VIII heavies, let alone tier IX heavies.

I think the game should be more balanced. 

 

With all due respect, you're still pretty new. If you find it tough to fight tier 9 heavies in your tier 8 heavy, you might wanna go back some more to tier 6 or 7.

 

Also, I notice that you omly have the T-32 as tier 8 heavy tank. Not exactly the best tier 8 heavy tank. It's rather UP, with only a good turret to work with. Power creep at it's best :)



NoobySkooby #10 Posted 23 May 2018 - 10:39 AM

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View PostOneSock, on 23 May 2018 - 10:02 AM, said:

Pretty much every tier 7 gun will go through the side of a tier 9 HT.  You just have to get yourself into a position to do it. You don't have to face down the enemy top tier, that is up to your own top tier to do. You are there to assist them to get the job done.

 

You can help by absorbing a few shots, shooting your own counterparts, or shooting them with HE.

 

I always carry a good few HE rounds for when I encounter something I can't pen. with a well aimed HE shot you can knock out crew/modules/tracks etc. This should all help your top tier to take down the enemy.


Remember it's a team game, not a solo activity. 

 

How many times though in honesty do you get in a game and are presented with a load of campers, happens to me lots of times, and my fave tier 7 tanks are the Churchill BP (stop laughing) the A45 and my trusty AT15a.

Merton15 #11 Posted 23 May 2018 - 10:54 AM

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Bottom tier super heavies are "challenging" to say the least, but more mobile HTs less so. Just because it says Heavy on the tin, doesn't mean you cannot play it as a Medium. Support your MTs, higher tier MTs can be engaged on a more equal footing. A KV85  for example can do damage to T8 MTs so long as they are not hull down (i.e don't engage a hull down Centurion, run and hide).

BicycleOfDeath #12 Posted 23 May 2018 - 10:57 AM

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Though I agree +2MM is shitty there are lots of things you can do in Tier 7 heavies. 

- Analyse the teams before the game starts and figure out what you're afraid of and where you can go to help. T29? find a hulldown spot. Tiger 1? Support other heavies, permatrack enemies you can't penetrate, use your mobility to pull out and punish someone on reload.

- Look for targets of opportunity on your minimap, like enemies who are in isolated positions and outnumbered. Find tanks that are lower tier, alone, have low health, or help your team focus the ones that are threatening a flank. Always fight unfairly whenever you can and bully people. Get away from bad situations and don't go to a flank alone.

 - Even if it's the worst corridor choke point in the world you can still sit behind your own tier 9 heavy and punish enemies on reload, and you can wait for them to peek and you have first shot advantage (track them!)

-If you're still frustrated then avoid the worst tier 7 heavies like the Tiger P, have good crews, don't play stock tanks, just freexp modules, load gold.

 

 



tankqull #13 Posted 23 May 2018 - 11:51 AM

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View PostBicycleOfDeath, on 23 May 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

Though I agree +2MM is shitty there are lots of things you can do in Tier 7 heavies. 

- Analyse the teams before the game starts and figure out what you're afraid of and where you can go to help. T29? find a hulldown spot. Tiger 1? Support other heavies, permatrack enemies you can't penetrate, use your mobility to pull out and punish someone on reload.

- Look for targets of opportunity on your minimap, like enemies who are in isolated positions and outnumbered. Find tanks that are lower tier, alone, have low health, or help your team focus the ones that are threatening a flank. Always fight unfairly whenever you can and bully people. Get away from bad situations and don't go to a flank alone.

 - Even if it's the worst corridor choke point in the world you can still sit behind your own tier 9 heavy and punish enemies on reload, and you can wait for them to peek and you have first shot advantage (track them!)

-If you're still frustrated then avoid the worst tier 7 heavies like the Tiger P, have good crews, don't play stock tanks, just freexp modules, load gold.

 

 

 

in other words bent over and be a good guy.

BicycleOfDeath #14 Posted 23 May 2018 - 12:30 PM

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View Posttankqull, on 23 May 2018 - 11:51 AM, said:

 

in other words bent over and be a good guy.

 

More like play smarter.

SuperOlsson #15 Posted 23 May 2018 - 12:36 PM

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View PostAgent_327, on 23 May 2018 - 09:33 AM, said:

It's a team game and you're not supposed to handle everything yourself. -It is balanced in that you have an equal opposed tier VII heavy that you can fight.

 

Yep! Sometimes you are supposed to just be cannon fodder and praise the balance and fun factor of this!



Dava_117 #16 Posted 23 May 2018 - 12:44 PM

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What to do depends on the HT your using.

Some have enought armour to be helpfull against toptier, so you can attract fire, reducing pressure on your top tier and, with the right knowledge of weackspot, you can even fire back.

Some HT are not as well armoured, but can still compete against MT by out trading them. Don't get alone because DPM whise, meds will steamroll you.

Finally, if you got a derp HT, be a support on HT line, targeting the top tier, if possible, it allways help.


Edited by Dava_117, 23 May 2018 - 12:44 PM.


OneSock #17 Posted 23 May 2018 - 02:17 PM

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View PostNoobySkooby, on 23 May 2018 - 10:39 AM, said:

 

How many times though in honesty do you get in a game and are presented with a load of campers, happens to me lots of times, and my fave tier 7 tanks are the Churchill BP (stop laughing) the A45 and my trusty AT15a.

 

You have to play according to your team. If you can safely spot for the campers do so, if you can only join them in camping, do so.

 

Often you need a LOT of patience. Don't be tempted to go alone, it rarely works. If you are clearly going to lose, just accept it and be sure you do the most damage and are the last to die.

 

 

 



Jigabachi #18 Posted 23 May 2018 - 03:07 PM

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If you can't fight those three tIX tanks, maybe avoid direct contact and support your own team's tXI tanks? You know... the good old basics of tactics and teamplay.

Edited by Jigabachi, 23 May 2018 - 03:07 PM.


Rati_Festa #19 Posted 23 May 2018 - 03:34 PM

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Personally when I am in a t7 heavy my last concern is a t9 heavy, i can stay away from them due to heavy tank speeds. Im far more concerned with t9 meds and lights that are fast and catch me.

shane73tank #20 Posted 23 May 2018 - 03:38 PM

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Buy a pref mm tank, problem solved ( for a bit)




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