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Pref MM changes are preparing for+-1 mm?


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Kasimoto #1 Posted 24 May 2018 - 07:35 AM

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Could WG be preparing the ground for +-1 mm?

Baldrickk #2 Posted 24 May 2018 - 07:37 AM

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No.
If anything, the changes goo the wrong way

ricoBenitez1 #3 Posted 24 May 2018 - 07:42 AM

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nope

Cuz simple that would be booring



Keyanu #4 Posted 24 May 2018 - 07:42 AM

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That would be the dream

Thornvalley #5 Posted 24 May 2018 - 07:53 AM

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That would be the best change that can happen for this game.

250swb #6 Posted 24 May 2018 - 07:57 AM

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View PostKasimoto, on 24 May 2018 - 06:35 AM, said:

Could WG be preparing the ground for +-1 mm?

 

Higher spread MM, so +2 and upwards, gives all players the chance to be top tier and influence the battle some times. All - or + 1 would do is mean any players below average are matched against better players in the same tanks so they never have an equipment advantage to encourage them. It isn't the spread of tiers that is the problem at the moment, it is the ratio of tiers within that spread.

Edited by 250swb, 24 May 2018 - 07:59 AM.


wremise #7 Posted 24 May 2018 - 09:27 AM

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You can think about it: what would be easier?

 

Ballance all Tanks to MM+/-1 or,

Ballance the few SMM tanks to MM +/-2



DeBanus #8 Posted 24 May 2018 - 10:34 AM

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View Postwremise, on 24 May 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

You can think about it: what would be easier?

 

Ballance all Tanks to MM+/-1 or,

Ballance the few SMM tanks to MM +/-2

 

I think it should not be about whats hard or whats easy, but What is right.

 

In my opninion, and many others who share that opinion, MM should have changed to +/- 1 a long time ago.

Especially compared to the abysmal 3-5-7 horrorfest they introduced after they so called "fixed" and "improved" the WoTs' Matchmaking



Kasimoto #9 Posted 24 May 2018 - 10:37 AM

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Think about it.  You would not need to balance +2mm tanks as they would all benefit from +1mm.  Pref tanks would be the only tanks to lose in +1mm.

snowy76 #10 Posted 24 May 2018 - 10:48 AM

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View Postwremise, on 24 May 2018 - 09:27 AM, said:

You can think about it: what would be easier?

 

Ballance all Tanks to MM+/-1 or,

Ballance the few SMM tanks to MM +/-2

 

The tanks should always be balanced for +1/-1 by default and they often get in to that spread in the current MM.....

 

View PostDeBanus, on 24 May 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

 

I think it should not be about whats hard or whats easy, but What is right.

 

In my opninion, and many others who share that opinion, MM should have changed to +/- 1 a long time ago.

Especially compared to the abysmal 3-5-7 horrorfest they introduced after they so called "fixed" and "improved" the WoTs' Matchmaking

 

And in this case easy and right is the same thing

They should make it 3-12 or 5-10 split between top and bottom tier.


Edited by snowy76, 24 May 2018 - 10:48 AM.


tankqull #11 Posted 24 May 2018 - 10:50 AM

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View Post250swb, on 24 May 2018 - 06:57 AM, said:

 

Higher spread MM, so +2 and upwards, gives all players the chance to be top tier and influence the battle some times. All - or + 1 would do is mean any players below average are matched against better players in the same tanks so they never have an equipment advantage to encourage them. It isn't the spread of tiers that is the problem at the moment, it is the ratio of tiers within that spread.

 

nope its the balance between tiers.

the old +4 MM worked because the balance between tiers allowed -4 tanks to actually do dmg against the toptiers from every side. currently there are tanks impenetrable from their behinds by -2 goldshooting tanks...



Enforcer1975 #12 Posted 24 May 2018 - 10:53 AM

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View Postwremise, on 24 May 2018 - 09:27 AM, said:

You can think about it: what would be easier?

 

Ballance all Tanks to MM+/-1 or,

Ballance the few SMM tanks to MM +/-2

 

If they hadn't kicked balance out of the window a while ago it wouldn't be a problem to balance all the tanks. Instead of introducing new tanks in the most OP configuration you waste less time and energy balancing them with the current tanks in mind and stop pushing players to play the obviously broken new tanks. 

CmdRatScabies #13 Posted 24 May 2018 - 10:54 AM

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View PostBaldrickk, on 24 May 2018 - 07:37 AM, said:

No.
If anything, the changes goo the wrong way

 

Indeed, they look like they're prepared to change the whole game to make their crap 3/5/7 template work.

DeBanus #14 Posted 24 May 2018 - 11:08 AM

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View PostCmdRatScabies, on 24 May 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

 

Indeed, they look like they're prepared to change the whole game to make their crap 3/5/7 template work.

 

Yup, dont forget its Wargaming thats trying to 'fix' these problems eventhough the solutions are already known.

 

Also dont forget this game is insanely noob-proof.

The 3-5-7 Matchmaking is introduced so our red bobs can have decent games aswell, because what are tier 6's and 7's gonna do vs his idiot proof Defender?

 

Same with RNG (completly broken after the accuracy nerf) where you now get punished for doing something good -aiming for weekspots-  instead of getting rewarded for doing something good.....



Somnorila #15 Posted 24 May 2018 - 11:18 AM

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View PostDeBanus, on 24 May 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

 

I think it should not be about whats hard or whats easy, but What is right.

 

In my opninion, and many others who share that opinion, MM should have changed to +/- 1 a long time ago.

Especially compared to the abysmal 3-5-7 horrorfest they introduced after they so called "fixed" and "improved" the WoTs' Matchmaking

 

Right or wrong are a matter of perception. But i agree that if you do something try to do it well. And thinking ahead is always better. Why patch a hole over and over again when you could just freaking rebuild from scratch and do a good job now that you know what are the flaws  and requirements.

I for one like the 3-5-7 mm and the +2 spread. I feel is the best balance i have yet seen till now. Also i hate when battles are between teams of same tier because balanced players by skill, paired with tank role and effectiveness as well as tank basic vs top module mounted, feels most needed.


Edited by Somnorila, 24 May 2018 - 11:25 AM.


Aikl #16 Posted 24 May 2018 - 11:51 AM

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View PostKasimoto, on 24 May 2018 - 06:35 AM, said:

Could WG be preparing the ground for +-1 mm?

 

Doubtful, despite WoT: Blitz (mobile/Steam version) switching to it. Doesn't fit with the whole 3-5-7 scheme where you, unless you play tiers that consume credits, have easymode 20% of the time and feed other bobs the remaining 80%.

 

In Blitz, they actually buffed the PMM tanks to compensate for the change for all other tanks, by giving them altlernate guns. In effect you can choose between the original (gun) parameters and a higher-pen alternative with less DPM and gun handling. That was arguably a fair deal; they didn't change the tanks themselves. PMM tanks wouldn't be in any, relatively, worse position if the whole game went +1, and only require buffs they'd otherwise need to remain competitive.

 

View Post250swb, on 24 May 2018 - 06:57 AM, said:

 

Higher spread MM, so +2 and upwards, gives all players the chance to be top tier and influence the battle some times. All - or + 1 would do is mean any players below average are matched against better players in the same tanks so they never have an equipment advantage to encourage them. It isn't the spread of tiers that is the problem at the moment, it is the ratio of tiers within that spread.

 

Indeed. Would honestly work better if it wasn't '20% sealclub simulator'. Still, this is a game, not a sandbox. There are still several factors beyond equipment (and even personal performance) that decide the results a player can achieve in a given match. RNG, teamplay and general luck, for instance, as well as (arguably) premium ammo. 

 

I'm generally against catering to one player bracket, because it isn't good for the game health. WoT's a 'casual' game, i.e. shouldn't be too competitive or too random. The emphasis on 'casual' is real, though, and it's not affecting the 'game' part in a good way.

 

View PostCmdRatScabies, on 24 May 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

 

Indeed, they look like they're prepared to change the whole game to make their crap 3/5/7 template work.

 

They've been shoehorning what is a 'statistically ideal' figure into the game. The matchmaker saw tweaks before, that we likely weren't let in on, but the apparent need to balance classes, subclasses, platoons ...I think it smells fishy.

 

View PostDeBanus, on 24 May 2018 - 10:08 AM, said:

 

Yup, dont forget its Wargaming thats trying to 'fix' these problems eventhough the solutions are already known.

 

Also dont forget this game is insanely noob-proof.

The 3-5-7 Matchmaking is introduced so our red bobs can have decent games aswell, because what are tier 6's and 7's gonna do vs his idiot proof Defender?

 

(...)

 

I'm sure a common complaint was that paying €40 for a tank doesn't make you a great player - and the settlement was that 20% of the time you should get to be an atomic sealsmasher if you pay that much. :D



DeBanus #17 Posted 24 May 2018 - 02:03 PM

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View PostAikl, on 24 May 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

I'm sure a common complaint was that paying €40 for a tank doesn't make you a great player - and the settlement was that 20% of the time you should get to be an atomic sealsmasher if you pay that much. :D

 

 

You're missing my point here.

 

Its not about the tank itself. It's about the matchmaker that is programmed in a noob-friendly way, so even the red bobs (or just plain bots, as there are in WoT as in World of Warplanes) can have a forgiving game.



Element6_TheSprout #18 Posted 24 May 2018 - 02:10 PM

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View PostDeBanus, on 24 May 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

You're missing my point here.

 

Its not about the tank itself. It's about the matchmaker that is programmed in a noob-friendly way, so even the red bobs (or just plain bots, as there are in WoT as in World of Warplanes) can have a forgiving game.

That's not the only reason.

 

In the past when the playerbase was "small", there was +/-4 MM to make sure nobody sat in the queue for too long. Then the playerbase grew large enough to reduce the MM to +/-2, where enough people had gotten all the way to Tier 10. If you reduce it to +/-1 you will likely run into issues in the higher tiers since the population up there is a fraction of what it is in the mid to low tiers, and the MM would struggle to find teams that mildly resemble eachother in terms of what tanks are in each team.

 

It's not all about noobfriendlyness, it is also about making sure that whatever tank you select, you get a battle withing a reasonably short time.



Balc0ra #19 Posted 24 May 2018 - 02:30 PM

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Yeah cus removing +1 MM from pref MM tanks is ofc the first step. 

 

View PostAikl, on 24 May 2018 - 11:51 AM, said:

 

In Blitz, they actually buffed the PMM tanks to compensate for the change for all other tanks, by giving them altlernate guns. In effect you can choose between the original (gun) parameters and a higher-pen alternative with less DPM and gun handling. That was arguably a fair deal; they didn't change the tanks themselves. PMM tanks wouldn't be in any, relatively, worse position if the whole game went +1, and only require buffs they'd otherwise need to remain competitive.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.. but all tanks in blitz have pref MM. As in... due to the 7 vs 7 setup on way smaller maps. +1 made more sense. 

 

View PostDeBanus, on 24 May 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

 

I think it should not be about whats hard or whats easy, but What is right.

 

In my opninion, and many others who share that opinion, MM should have changed to +/- 1 a long time ago.

Especially compared to the abysmal 3-5-7 horrorfest they introduced after they so called "fixed" and "improved" the WoTs' Matchmaking

 

Many other do indeed share that opinion, that's true. Just as many share the opinion about +2 working just fine. IMO.. I would leave rather fast if +1 was a thing, or even +0. +2 do many things, keeping the game diverse is one of them, and my most fun games have been in +2 games. But that's just me.

 

But will it make it easier? On some tiers sure. On others? My tier 8's have an easier time penning some of the old tier X's head on, then most of the recent tier 8 armor head on. And until they fix the tier 8 balance to name one. Equal tier games on tier 8 should not be a thing IMO. And +1 MM will def increase the influx of those, as half the old tier 8 HT's can't even pen any of the new HT's head on. As most of them have sub 200 pen still. So what do you think most ppl on tier 8 play? It's mostly the same stuff. Lots o armor and good pen.  And if you can't even pen a tier 8 HT head on in your tier 8 HT, +1 won't fix that. There is a reason why tier 8 is the least popular tier. And for some, it's not due to +2 MM. 

 

Thus why WG sees pref and +1 MM as an issue. It's not just on "making it easier" on vs what you fight. It's about the flow of the MM to name one. 


Edited by Balc0ra, 24 May 2018 - 02:34 PM.


_b_ #20 Posted 24 May 2018 - 02:37 PM

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Think I like the ±2 spread...but would appreciate being middle or top tier most often.

 

How ever, since FL was introduced seems like I've been top more often while grinding tier 6/7/8/9 of those I've got left to grind.

 

And being bottom tier isn't that bad, unless teams get some of them Super heavies you'll bounce gold from even from behind like mentioned. Or that will slap you silly with press W, double tap 2 and derp! :/






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