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How to buff JT 88 when the PMM status is removed?


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Hezs #1 Posted 25 May 2018 - 12:20 PM

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JT 88 is a tricky tank to balance, because the puny 88mm L/71 is so weak in its current state. Here is what I suggest:

 

Buff the 88m L/71 gun penetration to same level what tanks like Progetto Mod 46, Mutz, AMX CDC, Pantera 44:

From 203/237 to 212/259.

Then Buff the 88mm L/100 gun penetration from 223/261 to 235/285. 

 

JT88 could use the premium ammo from the L/71 gun as the standard ammo, and premium ammo from the L/100 gun.

Thus it would have penetration of 259/285mm. 

 

How is it possible to use premium ammo from the longer L/100 gun, that I don't know, but I don't see any other way to be competitive against tier 10 with tanks with 240 alpha damage.  

 

Panther II and Panther 88 would also get pen buff with these changes, along with Tiger I, Steyr wft, Nashorn, Jagdpanther and VK4503. L/100 gun could actually be useful in the E50 also. 

 

What do you think?

 

 

 



firelars4 #2 Posted 25 May 2018 - 12:25 PM

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I would buff the standard pen to 230 like on T25E5, maybe even to 248mm. Other gun stats are fine. Then increase the power/weight from 10 to 15 and buff reverse speed from 12 to 15 km/h.

 



ArmouredElephant #3 Posted 25 May 2018 - 12:31 PM

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View PostHezs, on 25 May 2018 - 05:20 AM, said:

JT 88 is a tricky tank to balance, because the puny 88mm L/71 is so weak in its current state. Here is what I suggest:

 

Buff the 88m L/71 gun penetration to same level what tanks like Progetto Mod 46, Mutz, AMX CDC, Pantera 44:

From 203/237 to 212/259.

Then Buff the 88mm L/100 gun penetration from 223/261 to 235/285. 

 

JT88 could use the premium ammo from the L/71 gun as the standard ammo, and premium ammo from the L/100 gun.

Thus it would have penetration of 259/285mm. 

 

How is it possible to use premium ammo from the longer L/100 gun, that I don't know, but I don't see any other way to be competitive against tier 10 with tanks with 240 alpha damage.  

 

Panther II and Panther 88 would also get pen buff with these changes, along with Tiger I, Steyr wft, Nashorn, Jagdpanther and VK4503. L/100 gun could actually be useful in the E50 also. 

 

What do you think?

 

 

 

 

Don't know if you saw my thread, but I made one specifically for the Jagdtiger & Super Pershing; I think it would be better if we just kept it to one long thread in stead of a bunch of smaller ones ! and on top of that, one of my options was pretty much what you said... 

 

http://forum.worldof...-jt-88/#topmost



Thejagdpanther #4 Posted 25 May 2018 - 12:38 PM

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2 options maybe...

 

it could become a tier 7, with some few touch (it's the worst tier 8 by everything, not really sure what touch... maybe 1100 hp, and a rof nerf)

it could become the tier 8 "H" variant, like the tech tree jagdtiger, with again hp touch (maybe 1700 buff in this case / ferdi has 1500 - regular jtiger 2100, let's meet in the middle, sort of) with the stock 128 with better aim time.

 

Of course giving a tank called jagdtiger 88 another weapon and continuing to call it jagdtiger 88 does not make sense, move it away from tier 8 or turn it into a variant of jtiger.

 

 


Edited by Thejagdpanther, 25 May 2018 - 02:07 PM.


fwhaatpiraat #5 Posted 25 May 2018 - 12:45 PM

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WG:

Commanders!

We noticed some vehicles needed changes to stay competitive.

Changed the parameters of the following vehicle: jt 8.8 pak 43 (old values between brackets):
Engine power: 2100 (700)
Speed limit: 78 (38)

We also noticed the frontal armor of the tank is not as effective as it used to be in the past. We applies the following changes to the armor:
Hull armor: 250mm raw thickess (used to be 100-150)
Superstructure: 380mm raw thickness (used to be 250)

See you on the battlefield!


Hezs #6 Posted 25 May 2018 - 12:46 PM

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Sorry ArmouredElephant, I missed you thread about the subject. Now posted there also. 

Aikl #7 Posted 25 May 2018 - 12:52 PM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 25 May 2018 - 11:45 AM, said:

(...)

 

Update to in-game model as follows:

Spoiler

 

The thing I wonder most about is how many of the PMM tanks are available - WG logic dictates that if something is overpowered and broken competitive, then it should be a cash-only item.



fwhaatpiraat #8 Posted 25 May 2018 - 12:57 PM

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View PostAikl, on 25 May 2018 - 12:52 PM, said:

 

Update to in-game model as follows:

Spoiler

 

The thing I wonder most about is how many of the PMM tanks are available - WG logic dictates that if something is overpowered and broken competitive, then it should be a cash-only item.

If pmm vehicles really were a problem (as mentioned like 2-3 years ago by wg) they would/should have removed them out of the tech tree and premium shop long time ago. Gue$$ why they didn't...

 

Cool picture of that stug though! :)


Edited by fwhaatpiraat, 25 May 2018 - 12:57 PM.


Balc0ra #9 Posted 25 May 2018 - 12:59 PM

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Something to keep in mind is the DPM it has vs pen. It's only beaten by one tank, and on pair with another "ISU-130 excluded". And the AT-15 that has more base DPM vs it has 226 base pen. All they need to do is rename the L71 gun as they do with most premium guns vs making it an L100. Thus making it unique to the tank. Buff the pen to be on pair with most tier 8 TD's with that DPM. And no more. It also has more lower plate armor then the tier 9 even for some reason. But... the most hated aspect from the ppl I know that owns it. Is the mobility, not the pen. And that really needs a fix if it suddenly faces tier X meds and lights.

 

L100 buffs for the meds alone is a different discussion.



Aikl #10 Posted 25 May 2018 - 01:13 PM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 25 May 2018 - 11:57 AM, said:

If pmm vehicles really were a problem (as mentioned like 2-3 years ago by wg) they would/should have removed them out of the tech tree and premium shop long time ago. Gue$$ why they didn't...

 

Cool picture of that stug though! :)

 

Yeah. Can't wait for the staff to come in here and "clarify" Wargaming's logic and intentions like they did last time. Wargaming's not coming out of this in the black, that's for sure. They're so ...consistent about stuff like this. First they started to remove PMMs. Then reintroduced the ones they removed. Then said they wanted to remove them again. Then said that they want to rebalance 'crept PMMs right after they reintroduced the '88. Now, the matchmaker is suddenly the (main) reason why PMM needs to be trashed. Not the tanks themselves. $illy $tuff, €h.

 

To be fair, MM issues have been mentioned in the past. However, that has been as a secondary issue with PMM tanks, and mostly in relation to (scrapped) ideas for 'soft' changes to PMM tiering, i.e. that they need to be careful when changing stuff.

My favourite is that the WoT creative director has literally stated that there aren't really enough T6s in the queue (we know why that is a problem) - and they are now claiming that PMM tanks are the main reason why T8 MM as a whole gets so bad matchmaking. Way-to-go!

 

In regards to the staff responding, for some reason it tends to get extremely silent in here when there's drama. Haven't seen a staff member in the Englis section for days. Ah well. The weather's nice, they're probably having the weekend off. Gotta give the small indie gaming company some slack, eh?



Hezs #11 Posted 25 May 2018 - 01:27 PM

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IMO 88 L/100 gun won't be enough, but maybe if the mobility is buffed. But if not, the tank needs  good dpm and pen, thus the buff the pen to 259/285. 



_Sensation_ #12 Posted 25 May 2018 - 01:38 PM

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For tier 10? Massive armor buff and very high pen on both standard and gold rounds. The problem is tho if you make them compettive against T8's (so they wont get reqt) they will destroy t7 and t6

Tinbawx #13 Posted 25 May 2018 - 01:52 PM

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View Post_Sensation_, on 25 May 2018 - 01:38 PM, said:

For tier 10? Massive armor buff and very high pen on both standard and gold rounds. The problem is tho if you make them compettive against T8's (so they wont get reqt) they will destroy t7 and t6

 

It´s already better armoured than the regular JT though, since it didn´t get hit by the lfp nerf like Tiger II and JT did (for historical accuracy :trollface:) back in  the day. But yeah, 8.8cm L71 pen won´t be enough unless they, crank the dpm up if more, so it absolutely annihilates anything it can pen.

Simeon85 #14 Posted 25 May 2018 - 01:54 PM

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Give it the L/100

 

Buff the gun depression to -10 so it can make more of it's armour when hull down.

 

Buff the hp/ton so it actually can get up to 38kph on flat ground. 

 

Buff the ROF up to 12.5, DPM would be 3k. 



Toni112007 #15 Posted 25 May 2018 - 02:12 PM

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Replace it with Jagdtiger (H) with 128mm gun.

ArmouredElephant #16 Posted 25 May 2018 - 02:44 PM

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View PostToni112007, on 25 May 2018 - 07:12 AM, said:

Replace it with Jagdtiger (H) with 128mm gun.

 

or with jagdtiger P 

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