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Arent pref. matchmaking tanks benefiting the tier 8s ?


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peldikupaber #1 Posted 26 May 2018 - 03:29 AM

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Arent pref. matchmaking tanks benefiting the tier 8s ? The whole main cry with the current matchmaker is that you are constantly forced to fight tier 10s. If you sign up with a pref. matchmaking tank ,you are forcing 29 other people to not face tier 10s, isnt this what the people wanted ? 

ridicol #2 Posted 26 May 2018 - 05:09 AM

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WG thinks we are a bunch of idiots, and instead of actually fixing the problem which is the 3/5/7 template they are trying to fix the symptoms with game mods and other stuff, and not cure the disease

spamhamstar #3 Posted 26 May 2018 - 05:29 AM

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As far as I can work out WG are claiming that as the preferred template for mm is 3/5/7 & pref mm tanks can't be bottom tier in that template, then it is causing problems for the mm.

 

It seems that this is resulting in more 5/10 templates being formed with the pref mm tanks as bottom tier, reducing the number of tier 9's available for other battles.  Meaning that the mm has to put more normal tier 8's into tier x games instead of the tier 9's.  So the problem is more with how the mm was selecting those other 29 players for the battle, rather than the fact those 29 players also weren't facing tier x's.

 



gunslingerXXX #4 Posted 26 May 2018 - 07:19 AM

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To work this out, find statistics on how much games were played in each tier in a certain period. Put values in Excel or other data processor. Then distribute 3/5/7 (I suggest top down, but you can try bottom up as well, take care for low tier +1mm). Find which tiers are actually limiting 3/5/7. .

Then assume certain % pmm tanks in tier 8 and see if the tier lacking tanks changes.

 



Hedgehog1963 #5 Posted 26 May 2018 - 07:44 AM

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View Postspamhamstar, on 26 May 2018 - 04:29 AM, said:

As far as I can work out WG are claiming that as the preferred template for mm is 3/5/7 & pref mm tanks can't be bottom tier in that template, then it is causing problems for the mm.

 

It seems that this is resulting in more 5/10 templates being formed with the pref mm tanks as bottom tier, reducing the number of tier 9's available for other battles.  Meaning that the mm has to put more normal tier 8's into tier x games instead of the tier 9's.  So the problem is more with how the mm was selecting those other 29 players for the battle, rather than the fact those 29 players also weren't facing tier x's.

 

 

This makes it sound like the real beneficiaries of the Teier VIII PMMM tanks are the Tier IX players...

spamhamstar #6 Posted 26 May 2018 - 09:53 AM

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View PostHedgehog1963, on 26 May 2018 - 06:44 AM, said:

 

This makes it sound like the real beneficiaries of the Teier VIII PMMM tanks are the Tier IX players...

 

It does a bit doesn't it. 

 

Now if only there was some way WG could swap some of those tier 9s for some of the tier 8s that are being dumped into tier 10 games.  They seem to think removing PMM will do this, but to me that just sounds like WG trying to find an excuse to remove PMM.  Although that would be a bit odd given it's something they've talked about for a long time now.

 

I'd always believed that all prem tanks were sacrosanct and could only ever be buffed, never nerfed.  I guess in a way that will still be the case, as all the pmm tanks will still be getting a buff as they rise 1/2 a tier.

 

On a side note, do you use roman numerals for all tiers, or only tier 9 & 10?  Just curious, as I often see people talking about tier 7 & tier x in the same post & always wondered why.  Indeed I often refer to tier x myself & don't really know why.  Maybe it just requires something special after grinding through most of tier 8 vs tier Xs ;)



Slyspy #7 Posted 26 May 2018 - 10:06 AM

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8 and x are both single digits, essentially. I would say that, given the headache involved, WG have a genuine reason for changing pmm tanks rather than their environment. 

Rati_Festa #8 Posted 26 May 2018 - 10:09 AM

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View PostHedgehog1963, on 26 May 2018 - 07:44 AM, said:

 

This makes it sound like the real beneficiaries of the Teier VIII PMMM tanks are the Tier IX players...

It probably is, u will notice that a lot of players mention they prefer t9 play. Many say its because the tanks are better balanced against the tier but it may be something more subtle like the -1 mm they are receiving more frequently. Any tank that faces the tier lower more frequently it is always going to feel more balanced.



spamhamstar #9 Posted 26 May 2018 - 10:30 AM

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View PostSlyspy, on 26 May 2018 - 09:06 AM, said:

8 and x are both single digits, essentially. I would say that, given the headache involved, WG have a genuine reason for changing pmm tanks rather than their environment. 

 

Makes sense, you have any thoughts on tier 1(I) & 5(V) while we're at it? 

 

I don't doubt that WG have a very good reason for removing pmm.  As you say, it's a lot of trouble to go to, just because they felt like it.  They've also been talking about doing it for years, so it just seems odd that they suddenly need to do it now to fix the mm.  They must have had a reason for wanting to remove it before, but perhaps this was just the final straw for them.  I'm just guessing as you may have guessed.

Edited by spamhamstar, 26 May 2018 - 10:31 AM.


tankqull #10 Posted 26 May 2018 - 10:30 AM

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View PostRati_Festa, on 26 May 2018 - 09:09 AM, said:

It probably is, u will notice that a lot of players mention they prefer t9 play. Many say its because the tanks are better balanced against the tier but it may be something more subtle like the -1 mm they are receiving more frequently. Any tank that faces the tier lower more frequently it is always going to feel more balanced.

 

its more that they(T9s) are the true SMM tanks as they cant see anything else but -1/+2 as no T11 tanks are existing

 

and the reasoning of missing t9s is bvllshlt aswell, as it doesent matter if you are putting 5x t9s  into 5/10 of 9/8s in cluding SMM t8s or into a 3/5/7.

all it does is negating T10s more sealclubbing games thx to the abyssmal powercreep and forcing them into pure t10 matches.


Edited by tankqull, 26 May 2018 - 10:36 AM.


Hedgehog1963 #11 Posted 26 May 2018 - 10:33 AM

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View Postspamhamstar, on 26 May 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:

 

It does a bit doesn't it. 

 

Now if only there was some way WG could swap some of those tier 9s for some of the tier 8s that are being dumped into tier 10 games.  They seem to think removing PMM will do this, but to me that just sounds like WG trying to find an excuse to remove PMM.  Although that would be a bit odd given it's something they've talked about for a long time now.

 

I'd always believed that all prem tanks were sacrosanct and could only ever be buffed, never nerfed.  I guess in a way that will still be the case, as all the pmm tanks will still be getting a buff as they rise 1/2 a tier.

 

On a side note, do you use roman numerals for all tiers, or only tier 9 & 10?  Just curious, as I often see people talking about tier 7 & tier x in the same post & always wondered why.  Indeed I often refer to tier x myself & don't really know why.  Maybe it just requires something special after grinding through most of tier 8 vs tier Xs ;)

 

I'm out of "likes."  I agree they should find another solution rather than that which they are proposing...  One solution is slightly longer waiting times.

 

Yeah I've liked Roman numerals all my life. I just think they look good. I was born and raised in Cheshire and Romans were/are a big deal there with Chester itself being a major Roman Army fortress.  Now I live a few miles from Ribchester, again an old Roman outpost. 

 

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kaneloon #12 Posted 26 May 2018 - 10:37 AM

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Or WG could say that 8 PMM are tiers 7 to the MM, problem solved :)

In Tiers 7 you are always bottom tiers anyway.



Rati_Festa #13 Posted 26 May 2018 - 10:38 AM

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View Posttankqull, on 26 May 2018 - 10:30 AM, said:

 

its more that they are the trus SMM tanks as they cant see anything else but -1/+2 as no T11 ztanks are existing

Agreed but from experience playing t9 tanks It v rare to have same tier battles compared to other tiers. No data for this though, I just cant recall many t9 only matches. If thats the case globally that implies they are in a different template a lot. I also recall pummelling comets, leos and jpanthers a lot while playing my t55a and obj 430 II.

 

We need one of the data collecters to throw up some numbers on tier distribution.



tankqull #14 Posted 26 May 2018 - 10:47 AM

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View PostRati_Festa, on 26 May 2018 - 09:38 AM, said:

Agreed but from experience playing t9 tanks It v rare to have same tier battles compared to other tiers. No data for this though, I just cant recall many t9 only matches. If thats the case globally that implies they are in a different template a lot. I also recall pummelling comets, leos and jpanthers a lot while playing my t55a and obj 430 II.

 

We need one of the data collecters to throw up some numbers on tier distribution.

 

if i´m not using my T59 ive never seen a pure T8 match either (same for my M/panther at t7) ... so thats no indicator for missing t9s wich i keep saying is PR-bvullshlt.

Spurtung #15 Posted 26 May 2018 - 10:54 AM

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View PostHedgehog1963, on 26 May 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

 

This makes it sound like the real beneficiaries of the Teier VIII PMMM tanks are the Tier IX players...

 

That's exactly what's happening. PMM tanks, in a 3-5-7 template, are mostly part of the "5"...

Edited by Spurtung, 26 May 2018 - 10:54 AM.


Balc0ra #16 Posted 26 May 2018 - 10:55 AM

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View Postspamhamstar, on 26 May 2018 - 05:29 AM, said:

As far as I can work out WG are claiming that as the preferred template for mm is 3/5/7 & pref mm tanks can't be bottom tier in that template, then it is causing problems for the mm.

 

It seems that this is resulting in more 5/10 templates being formed with the pref mm tanks as bottom tier, reducing the number of tier 9's available for other battles.  Meaning that the mm has to put more normal tier 8's into tier x games instead of the tier 9's.  So the problem is more with how the mm was selecting those other 29 players for the battle, rather than the fact those 29 players also weren't facing tier x's.

 

 

3-5-7 IMO is not needed on tier 8+, but it's not the main cause of pref MM issues for me. For me and my pref MM tanks. Equal tier games are. As my IS-6 sees more of that then anything. And is the cause of me not playing it to much. As it has 175 pen when most tier 8 HT's of late have 220mm "weakspots". That again might affect +2 tanks getting dragged into +2 games more often if there are less 0 games about etc. The way I see it anyway. As I see way more pref MM tanks on equal tier games, then 5-10 with tier 9/8. And if they get 3-5-7. My IS-6 is the 5 more so then the 3. But at least he can pen targets then. So then I'm not complaining tbh. 

 

MM on tier 8 was not fantastic before 3-5-7 etc. But it was still better. Equal tier X games and equal tier 8 games are the worst atm in the current meta. So besides a massive balance change. 3-5-7 and 0+ has to go IMO. 5-10 is not that bad tbh on anything at top tier. But again, not needed. As I my IS-6 did work before that change. It don't anymore. 

 

But if they really, really want that 3-5-7 around. I would rather that my IS-6 got +2 and got a massive pen buff, then a minor one and it did keep it's pref MM that it's useless in anyway. As I play my +2 tier 8 premiums now.. not my pref MM prems. As they work… regardless. 

 

 


Edited by Balc0ra, 26 May 2018 - 10:56 AM.


tankqull #17 Posted 26 May 2018 - 11:21 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 26 May 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

 

3-5-7 IMO is not needed on tier 8+, but it's not the main cause of pref MM issues for me. For me and my pref MM tanks. Equal tier games are. As my IS-6 sees more of that then anything. And is the cause of me not playing it to much. As it has 175 pen when most tier 8 HT's of late have 220mm "weakspots". That again might affect +2 tanks getting dragged into +2 games more often if there are less 0 games about etc. The way I see it anyway. As I see way more pref MM tanks on equal tier games, then 5-10 with tier 9/8. And if they get 3-5-7. My IS-6 is the 5 more so then the 3. But at least he can pen targets then. So then I'm not complaining tbh. 

 

MM on tier 8 was not fantastic before 3-5-7 etc. But it was still better. Equal tier X games and equal tier 8 games are the worst atm in the current meta. So besides a massive balance change. 3-5-7 and 0+ has to go IMO. 5-10 is not that bad tbh on anything at top tier. But again, not needed. As I my IS-6 did work before that change. It don't anymore. 

 

But if they really, really want that 3-5-7 around. I would rather that my IS-6 got +2 and got a massive pen buff, then a minor one and it did keep it's pref MM that it's useless in anyway. As I play my +2 tier 8 premiums now.. not my pref MM prems. As they work… regardless. 

 

 

 

but the problem remains even if they buff your is6s pen to sth like the KV5 values of 200-210 values you are still facing 220mm weak spots giving you only a 40%chance to pen... while your armor like the kv5s will be weakend turning you even morso into cannonfodder for t9 and 10s ...

the entire +2 MM with the current powercreep bvllshlt is a failure and needs to be adressed not the PMM tanks themselves.



Balc0ra #18 Posted 26 May 2018 - 11:40 AM

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View Posttankqull, on 26 May 2018 - 11:21 AM, said:

 

but the problem remains even if they buff your is6s pen to sth like the KV5 values of 200-210 values you are still facing 220mm weak spots giving you only a 40%chance to pen... while your armor like the kv5s will be weakend

 

Well true. But now when it presses two, it gets 217 pen that's equally useless.  And if it loses it's pref MM and sees +2. It won't get flooded with equal tier games anymore full of only 220mm armor spots on the HT line. As even normal tier 8 HT's struggle vs that, as some still have 200 pen or lower with +2 MM. So even with it's pref MM intact and 210 pen. It would still be useless with normal ammo vs those. So either way, it changes little. Leading us back to the equal tier games and balance issues still. 

 

As for the KV-5 armor? On the side and rear sure. But most HT's will still auto pen that even now on tier X and 9. The frontal armor will get buffed enough to make a difference in a support role, or to make it more "crazy" as top tier. 


Edited by Balc0ra, 26 May 2018 - 11:41 AM.


Spurtung #19 Posted 26 May 2018 - 11:46 AM

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View Posttankqull, on 26 May 2018 - 12:21 PM, said:

 

but the problem remains even if they buff your is6s pen to sth like the KV5 values of 200-210 values you are still facing 220mm weak spots giving you only a 40%chance to pen... while your armor like the kv5s will be weakend turning you even morso into cannonfodder for t9 and 10s ...

the entire +2 MM with the current powercreep bvllshlt is a failure and needs to be adressed not the PMM tanks themselves.

 

Not really. Super Pershing got a pen buff, and still kept the PMM status, so wouldn't the first logical step to do the same thing to the rest of them?




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