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8 years of WoT experience, What is going wrong?


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dieltdaan #1 Posted 27 May 2018 - 10:55 AM

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Hello wargaming,


I am Daan; I have played world of tanks ever since the game changed from closed alpha to closed beta. I am a player that plays World of Tanks as a secondary game, explains that i only 15 k battles. But i have seen all updates, i played when the panzer 4 could easily kill a tier 10. I played when you implemented your first big physics changes with as a result everyone drowning themselves (lol).
and i play when there are italian tanks.


With that being said i hope u realize that even though that i do not have a lot of battles that you will accept my 8 years of watching World of tanks grow, and accept what i have to say, because to be very frank this is not a post meant to be discussed, this is how i feel that the game is doing, and it is not good!

And at last before i begin my ranting do know, that i LOVE the game, i spent tons of money and tried to get a lot of friends to play it, i supported wargaming (still do) from begin to end. But it is time u start listening to the regular player ... NOT the experienced one, who has been in the top 10 list for a decade, listen to your new players! listen to those, who don't play!


Too be fair world of tanks is dieing, You get a lot of new players, but the new players don't stick around, each year i see that players online at the same time seems to be less..

In my experience the biggest reason that is, is XVM: You HAVE to ban XVM as an ingame mod! It is so toxic, ofcourse new players quit the game easy when everytime they play a battle they get called out, YOU [edited]TOMATO! LEARN TO PLAY, TYPICAL A TOMATO CAMPER, etc.
A person his skills in a game should not matter, it is the fact that he is having fun or not!


Something that adds on to new players quitting is the power creep, the more people play the more credits they gather, and thus the more EXPENSIVE shells they can buy. So new guys will end up meeting the same tank as them on the battlefield and find that they cannot penetrate it on its weak spot, yet the other player can ... with as respond WHAT IS THIS [edited].., now that gold shells are no longer gold shells the problem became even bigger.

Perhaps u can fix this by putting a limit on the sort of shell u can take in the game, for example u can maximum take 70 percent AP shells,  20 percent APCR and 10 percent HE. and perhaps adding another feature, lowering the amount of shells u take into a battle can make your tank faster by 1 or 2 km/h, it is not much, but tanks like a maus or a t110e3 it can make a difference.


Also why have you not implemented a amount of battle in total and/or per tank reward system yet? this can be an easy way for new players to gain high quality stuff, for example , if u reach 1000 battles u will gain a camouflage net. or if u reach 500 battles with your tank u will earn a camo for that tank.
This can even work with giving APCR and HEAT shells everytime a player does like 50 battles with a tank, this will give new players a boost! old players wont care cuz they are literally loaded in credits.


And well lets not leave out our premium vehicle battle preference change ...
I can understand the problems it can create, i honestly do. But is this really the awnser?
Okay tier 8 premiums can now play a good roll in frontline, because they will only meet tier 8, also strongholds and clan wars, they will do a good roll.

But what about for example my e25, what will become of him, do i have to put my e25 infront of an e75? or if we look at the same class, the object 263.
Looks a bit underpowered does it. The e25 is good against tier 7 and tier 8 from a good distance, but has trouble penetrating some tier 8, so please wargaming, do explain how my e25 will have any chance of doing anything against a tier 9. and there are other premium tanks with that same problem.


I do not know what you are doing Wargaming! but STEP UP! you are loosing your community! I still believe WG can fix what is going wrong in the game, but the time of cashing in and giving only 20 percent of your attention to the community is over! If your do not put this community as your number 1 concern! they will drop you like a witch in water



crnakoza #2 Posted 27 May 2018 - 12:18 PM

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hahahaha

 

So gullible...



an0ther #3 Posted 27 May 2018 - 12:25 PM

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Giving out a small reward for playing X amount of games in a tank isn't that bad of an idea Tbh. 

Jigabachi #4 Posted 27 May 2018 - 12:31 PM

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The things that are going wrong already went wrong years ago, but back then you were still able to ignore it to some extent. But the fact that people kept throwing all their money at a company that shows so little care for its customers is something I'll never understand.

Besides that:
1. XVM is just a minor problem compared to everything else. But yes, swing the ban hammer.
2. We don't need more specials or free stuff, we need balance. After that you can check if we need more treats for new players.
3. Skill IS important. Fun is more important of course, but for normal human beings winning is more fun than losing. And being surrounded by dumb and clueless people is never fun. The playerbase is one of the biggest problems that ruins the fun for many people. That needs fixing.

Edited by Jigabachi, 27 May 2018 - 12:32 PM.


Tr0gledyte #5 Posted 27 May 2018 - 12:59 PM

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They know their game is slowly declining, as all f2p games do, so they're squeezing out every bit of money.

 

Why invest time and a lot of money (make no mistake, implementing the changes the community wants WILL cost them a crapload of money) into actually listening to your customers, really improving your game and likely cutting your profits a great deal when it'll mostly die in 5 years anyway? For a company this is not a sound strategy.


Edited by Tr0gledyte, 27 May 2018 - 01:01 PM.


xx984 #6 Posted 27 May 2018 - 01:00 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 27 May 2018 - 11:31 AM, said:


3. Skill IS important. Fun is more important of course, but for normal human beings winning is more fun than losing. And being surrounded by dumb and clueless people is never fun. The playerbase is one of the biggest problems that ruins the fun for many people. That needs fixing.

For some people, Myself as one of them, these two things are one in the same. If i am not doing my best and whatever then i dont have fun, there is no fun in having *edited*games one after one for me.

 

 


Edited by NickMustaine, 30 May 2018 - 02:40 PM.
Inappropriate remarks


kejmo #7 Posted 27 May 2018 - 01:18 PM

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I dont use XVM and i see idiots in every match. You dont need XVM to realize that a camping E100 on A1 on Fishermans bay is driven by an idiotic player. 

 

XP / rewarding system is idiotic.

RNG is way too much RNG-ish.

Tank "charachteristics" have absolutely nothing to do with them ingame.

Map design...the new WG map design team raised the map quality to a brand new level.

Holy Mother Russia.

Etc, etc, etc...

 

And all the stuff Jigabachi mentioned above. 



dieltdaan #8 Posted 27 May 2018 - 01:34 PM

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View Postkejmo, on 27 May 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

I dont use XVM and i see idiots in every match. You dont need XVM to realize that a camping E100 on A1 on Fishermans bay is driven by an idiotic player. 

 

XP / rewarding system is idiotic.

RNG is way too much RNG-ish.

Tank "charachteristics" have absolutely nothing to do with them ingame.

Map design...the new WG map design team raised the map quality to a brand new level.

Holy Mother Russia.

Etc, etc, etc...

 

And all the stuff Jigabachi mentioned above. 

 

This is exactly the kind of toxic talk that gets this community killed,  IF the player wants to play that way, it is his choise!! He might be one of his first battles with that tank or something.
If u want players to get better, dont rage at them, point out to them what they did wrong.

The community of WoT has gotten so childish and toxic of the years that is just not fun to start it up anymore, every battle someone is raging. where are the times that the whole team would sit in base allowing that one guy with 5 kills to get the last one so he could get top gun?

nooo these days we all need to rush in, BECAUSE HE IS MY KILL, THAT NOOB PROBABLY KILLSTEALED THEM ANYWAY right?



And you need new players to create balans, if we have more players than WG can create a matchmaking based on your skill (which it clearly fails to do now)
Perhaps they can create a sort of matchmaking like All points Bulletin reloaded and counterstrike do it, give your players a rank based on their skill rank they will meet players of that rank. this way noobs will meet noobs and pro's will meet pro's. The biggest problem here is the fact that you will have ppl trying to stay low rank and thus suiciding in game.
or the rerollers.

Balc0ra #9 Posted 27 May 2018 - 01:54 PM

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View Postdieltdaan, on 27 May 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

In my experience the biggest reason that is, is XVM: You HAVE to ban XVM as an ingame mod! It is so toxic, ofcourse new players quit the game easy when everytime they play a battle they get called out, YOU [edited]TOMATO! LEARN TO PLAY, TYPICAL A TOMATO CAMPER, etc.
A person his skills in a game should not matter, it is the fact that he is having fun or not!

 

It's an online game. If XVM was gone, or shut down. It would not reduce it I'm sure. I've been called a tomato by 46% tomatoes. Then it would just be a term or used as a "cheap" attack on someone on your team playing bad, or not the way they want. Just like now. It might reduce ppl giving up. But even 3 SPG's on an open map can make ppl do that. Or even the enemy team setup vs his team. As in Paper HT's vs super heavies, or even that they had more ppl with better "emblems" on. If they want to give up, they still will. Or they simply are on a loss streak, and they give up before the match starts. Seen it all before, and it won't go away.

 

View Postdieltdaan, on 27 May 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

Also why have you not implemented a amount of battle in total and/or per tank reward system yet? this can be an easy way for new players to gain high quality stuff, for example , if u reach 1000 battles u will gain a camouflage net. or if u reach 500 battles with your tank u will earn a camo for that tank.

 

There more or less is. But those chain of missions are only visible to new accounts, not vets. They reward camo nets, binocs, a few 100K silver, a free use of 100% crew on any tank, free xp, garage slots etc. So new players are way better of vs when I started, when all we got was the M3 Light and a 100% commander for doing a long chain of tutorial missions. One even did not work until I could afford a camo net vs giving you one.  And considering they toss around free camo enough as is. I suspect the 500 camo reward for a tank won't make all the difference for most. Unless it's on a tier X or a tier 8 premium that is etc.

 

View Postdieltdaan, on 27 May 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

Too be fair world of tanks is dieing, You get a lot of new players, but the new players don't stick around, each year i see that players online at the same time seems to be less.

 

Issue is, that people have been saying that for years. We see a topic like this rather often. And it all boils down to the same thing. The game was better before, and they don't like changes. Some players don't like changes and leave because they don't like the new direction the game is taking. Some left due to lack of changes, or the right kind of change. And came back when the change they wanted came, that at the same time forced others to leave. Like when arty or LT's was nerfed. Some left due to it, others came back due to it. And some patches or changes brings new players. If the game did not change that much, or add much... I suspect the game would be dead already if it was... like patch 7.5 still more or less. But... population have been at the same peak during summer and Xmas for years now. As in it don't go up or down much. 50 to 40K in July, 200 to 220K in December. When we see don't see 200K even one day one December, that's when the big decline will come I suspect. And with the recent or upcoming changes... we just have to wait and see this Xmas.


Edited by Balc0ra, 27 May 2018 - 01:56 PM.


arthurwellsley #10 Posted 27 May 2018 - 02:07 PM

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1. I disagree over XVM. It hardly makes any difference whatosever. In World of Warcraft damage metres in high-end (raid) content were a thing. Anyone not putting out the right numbers was kicked from the raid. No one in World of Tanks can kick another player out of a pub match merely because they are poor.

 

2. The reward system for new accounts has been implemented, plus personal missions.

 

3. World of Tanks has a fairly stable server population. However the bad publicity that is about to engulf WG over the pref MM removal is likely to be substantial.


Edited by arthurwellsley, 27 May 2018 - 02:08 PM.


etody77 #11 Posted 27 May 2018 - 02:50 PM

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XVM must be banned, the run after WN8 will stop, that mean less gold ammo  will be used

MM could be made tier of gun mounted on tank, not tier of the tank (it's not nice to have a stock tank on tier 8 against tier 10)



Jigabachi #12 Posted 27 May 2018 - 02:51 PM

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View Postdieltdaan, on 27 May 2018 - 01:34 PM, said:

This is exactly the kind of toxic talk that gets this community killed,  IF the player wants to play that way, it is his choise!! 

And if he wants to point out a fact about how bad players ruin the game for everyone else, it is his choice.

It's not toxic to state a fact. The playerbase is a huge problem with the countless botlevel players swamping every other match.

 

Always remember that ALL players want to habe fun, not only the bad ones. The bad ones deliberately ruin the fun of the others because they refuse to learn to play and instead just rush up the tiers.


Edited by Jigabachi, 27 May 2018 - 02:52 PM.


frite_cuite #13 Posted 27 May 2018 - 05:43 PM

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Hello, I use xvm not to make fun of newbies or bad players, I use it as tactical information.

It is really helpfull to figure out if a flank will need help or what target is to prioritize first.

When it is about calling other players tomato or whatever, It is a matter of respect, which is a different problem.

And honestly I find it nice to use fruits and vegetables names to rate people ...

Also I have a 52% winrate and around 1300 win8, nothing to brag about but it doesn't fully reflects my ingame skilld, sometimes I play good tank that raises my rating sometimes bad ones, additionnaly I'm not playing regularly; I mean depending on my mood or concentration I play much better or worse and honestly I prefer a lot to play against a team of aplles or watever purple fruit, it is more chanlenging and rewarding than shooting at strawberries ;)

and when an unicum pings the map and tell me hat to do I will often listen and it is likely to be be a game winning move, on the other hand if it is a newbie, I might think twice and make my own decision different.

 

About WG listenning to players like you I totally agree, they can't continue much longer without listening to their CUSTOMERS!


Edited by frite_cuite, 27 May 2018 - 05:44 PM.


dieltdaan #14 Posted 27 May 2018 - 05:52 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 27 May 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

 

It's an online game. If XVM was gone, or shut down. It would not reduce it I'm sure. I've been called a tomato by 46% tomatoes. Then it would just be a term or used as a "cheap" attack on someone on your team playing bad, or not the way they want. Just like now. It might reduce ppl giving up. But even 3 SPG's on an open map can make ppl do that. Or even the enemy team setup vs his team. As in Paper HT's vs super heavies, or even that they had more ppl with better "emblems" on. If they want to give up, they still will. Or they simply are on a loss streak, and they give up before the match starts. Seen it all before, and it won't go away.

 

 

There more or less is. But those chain of missions are only visible to new accounts, not vets. They reward camo nets, binocs, a few 100K silver, a free use of 100% crew on any tank, free xp, garage slots etc. So new players are way better of vs when I started, when all we got was the M3 Light and a 100% commander for doing a long chain of tutorial missions. One even did not work until I could afford a camo net vs giving you one.  And considering they toss around free camo enough as is. I suspect the 500 camo reward for a tank won't make all the difference for most. Unless it's on a tier X or a tier 8 premium that is etc.

 

 

Issue is, that people have been saying that for years. We see a topic like this rather often. And it all boils down to the same thing. The game was better before, and they don't like changes. Some players don't like changes and leave because they don't like the new direction the game is taking. Some left due to lack of changes, or the right kind of change. And came back when the change they wanted came, that at the same time forced others to leave. Like when arty or LT's was nerfed. Some left due to it, others came back due to it. And some patches or changes brings new players. If the game did not change that much, or add much... I suspect the game would be dead already if it was... like patch 7.5 still more or less. But... population have been at the same peak during summer and Xmas for years now. As in it don't go up or down much. 50 to 40K in July, 200 to 220K in December. When we see don't see 200K even one day one December, that's when the big decline will come I suspect. And with the recent or upcoming changes... we just have to wait and see this Xmas.

 

Oh no on the contrary the game IS better, WG did a great job with it, but they are money hunting to much and ignoring their community, The game is WONDERFULL, but because some things in the game, or what WG is doing, they are making the community toxic and make players leave.

I would find it sad if WoT would be a dead game within 3 years, i find it a relaxing game, since i am a shooter and strategic player, i like the accosional brain dead aim for the track and [edited]kind of game XD

HeidenSieker #15 Posted 27 May 2018 - 07:20 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 27 May 2018 - 02:51 PM, said:

And if he wants to point out a fact about how bad players ruin the game for everyone else, it is his choice.

It's not toxic to state a fact. The playerbase is a huge problem with the countless botlevel players swamping every other match.

 

 

So who's going to feed the scores of good players, if bad players are so worthless? The above looks like another call for a skill-based MM.

Spurtung #16 Posted 27 May 2018 - 08:19 PM

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View Postdieltdaan, on 27 May 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

View Postkejmo, on 27 May 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

I dont use XVM and i see idiots in every match. You dont need XVM to realize that a camping E100 on A1 on Fishermans bay is driven by an idiotic player. 

This is exactly the kind of toxic talk that gets this community killed,  IF the player wants to play that way, it is his choise!! He might be one of his first battles with that tank or something. If u want players to get better, dont rage at them, point out to them what they did wrong.

 

Yeah, when someone is playing their tier 10 HT for the first time you clearly need to be patient and point out what's so wrong with camping it in the corner of the map. Once the battle is over, we can all sit by the fire singing kumbaya, holding our participation ribbons for having had fun.


Edited by Spurtung, 27 May 2018 - 08:20 PM.


Aimless #17 Posted 27 May 2018 - 08:22 PM

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View Postdieltdaan, on 27 May 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

Hello wargaming,

 

How much time have you spent in this forum then? Can't be that much...



Spurtung #18 Posted 27 May 2018 - 08:28 PM

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View Postetody77, on 27 May 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

XVM must be banned, the run after WN8 will stop, that mean less gold ammo  will be used

MM could be made tier of gun mounted on tank, not tier of the tank (it's not nice to have a stock tank on tier 8 against tier 10)

 

Yeah! Tier 6 Sherman Jumbo with tier 5 105mm gun approves.

 

View Postfrite_cuite, on 27 May 2018 - 06:43 PM, said:

Hello, I use xvm not to make fun of newbies or bad players, I use it as tactical information.

It is really helpfull to figure out if a flank will need help or what target is to prioritize first.

 

Thank you for putting it so well why XVM in battle should be banned.


 

Jigabachi #19 Posted 27 May 2018 - 08:47 PM

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View PostHeidenSieker, on 27 May 2018 - 07:20 PM, said:

So who's going to feed the scores of good players, if bad players are so worthless? The above looks like another call for a skill-based MM.

Good players are good players because they are better than all the players below them, not just the botlevel ones.

Also, I don't care about "feeding scores", I care about interesting matches and, ideally, winning them.

 

Block Quote

 The above looks like another call for a skill-based MM.

Well. Yes.

I'd love to see a certain kind of skillbased MM, together with a fixed balance and a progress system. And it would also nice if - ... ehrm. Meh.

Sorry, I was dreaming again...



Somnorila #20 Posted 27 May 2018 - 09:30 PM

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I agree, XVM brings way too many issues. I can understand some kind of stat comparison mod as it may have its perceived benefits for some but it never should be active during matches and be available only in garage.

 

WG doesn't seem to care about the game or its community for years now. Their main focus is on increasing revenue even if that would kill the game. Probably they have some kind of projections with averages and other crap statistics regarding this type of game life span and profitability and so they push the pedal on getting as much as possible until that deadline. I don't know, just a guess as i can't really comprehend another reason on why they freaking suck so much at everything else besides bundles and promotional stuff. 

 

It's a pvp game, a team based one at that. So like any other pvp, winning is fun not losing. And the team part is not helping. Every pvp game where there is a matchmaker is bad because you can't really have good, as in fun, results. WG tried to water that problem down with RNG. But all it really did is to deepen the issue.

I agree that skill shouldn't matter to have fun but sadly that is not possible in a  pvp environment. Only pve can bring that. But then again, in a game this repetitive, without egos and challenging other people, pve can't really sustain interest. 

 

They should rebalance the whole game ground up. With clear classes and roles and type of encounter for each map. The difference between current normal shells and premium shells should not be in the game. Each shell should have a specific usefulness. I think that no more than two type of shells should be active on any tank. AP/APCR/HEAT can be remade with different and specific stats to be used only on certain situation or just made in only one type of shell. I mean you can even have several tanks with specific roles or you can have less tanks that are highly customisable with equipment, modules and shells so that one tank could take several roles. This also means that the differences should be high enough so that taking a different role during a match be impossible. There are many possibilities out there, only if they want it.

I don't believe that limiting shell distribution would have any effect. You don't need many op shells to break the logic of the game. The problem is the balance made around premium shells. And that premium shells are better normal shells.

 

As i can see things, they can't make changes to PMM tanks without alienating many players. Well, maybe besides leave them be and just focusing on MM. Because if they remove their PMM status, customers will be mistreated and frankly lied and given a different product than the one they bought. Without monetary refunds for tanks and other sweeteners to make up for bundles, gambling and so on that was spend to get some of the PMM tanks. It's not possible. WG can make changes but has to take a big hit on their wallet if they want that, they should be aware of that.  If they just change the PMM tanks to +2 MM but buff them to feel like +1 when in game, i think that current PMM tank owners wouldn't really mind. Well, until they realize and until the other players start to have sensible pay to win accusations. Because, for example, a tier 8 ex PMM tank would have the battle capacity of a tier 9 tank, all the other tier 8 and down would suffer greatly. And this would mean even worse battle experiences.

 






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