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SPG rework proposal (repost)

SPG Balance Rework

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Freetoplay_KV2 #1 Posted 27 May 2018 - 06:35 PM

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Reposting this for benefit of community to consider:

 

I have a proposal for the SPG vehicle class, I have put a lot of time into this and I am sure it is the right thing to do, I am not outlining the issues with SPG as there is already a bumper 240 page thread about this.

 

Here is my proposal:

 

A conversion of all existing SPG vehicles in order to remove indirect firing mode.

A reworking of tiers in order to balance out damage for the new direct fire SPG class.

 

SPG vehicles would now have to fire exactly like tanks, they would no longer be able to use radar view. Shooting over hills would still be possible but it would be the same as doing this using for example a M4 Sherman with the 105mm

 

Hitpoints of SPG would all be considerably increased to balance with other vehicles in tier.

 

SPG are effectively glass cannon tank destroyers, this is an area that game balance can entertain, unlike indirect firing mode.

 

SPG with high damage guns like the T92HMC will need to change tier.

 

Proposed tier changes: SPG should be allowed no higher damage than any other tank in the tier, this means moving a large number of them up a tier, alpha damage should be reworked back to past values in order to reflect gun caliber.

For example: Bishop may be able to stay as tier 5 as other tanks also can do the same alpha damage per shot. SU122A Would go up to tier 6 having same top alpha as KV2, and SU122A would go to 7-800HP

 

Higher tier reworking:

Reverting the T92HMC and other tier 10 SPG back to original alpha damage would be a balance issue, however they must have original alpha because this reflects the gun size and the glass cannon dynamic.

The solution is to create a tier 11 and populate this tier with some currently overpowered vehicles and some older removed ones.

Obj 261 for example can stay as tier 10 with 1100 damage AP and 1700 damage HE

T92HMC would be tier 11 with 2250 damage HE and yet to be determined AP values

 

Tanks like the FV183 , WTE100 autoloader, Maus,Type 5 Heavy and FV4005stage2 would all be tier 11 with a balance to the Type 5 ammunition so that the standard ammo now does 1400 damage a shot and the premium 1100 with higher pen value.

These tanks would all have increased HP to compensate for the higher tier.

Tanks like Sturmtiger can be introduced with 3000 damage rockets and a 1 minute 30 second reload. Many other actual WW2 SPG can be introduced.

 

Enable a feature to turn on/off tier 11 matches when using tier 9/10 tanks.

 

Stun would likely be removed entirely or cut to a maximum 2 seconds for any tank.

SPG dispersion and aimtime would be rebalanced to correspond with similar tanks in the tier. Splash radius would be rebalanced also to correspond with similar tanks in tier which would mean far less splash radius on all but the largest guns.

 

Benefits: No more indirect firing mode, would significantly reduce camping, SPG would have to reposition to be inside view range to be able to shoot. No more anxiety for players who are shot and cannot return fire, no more lazy playstyle for SPG, this would greatly increase enjoyment for entire team most of all the player using SPG.

It would cut out a lot of bad behaviour towards SPG which is built up on frustration of not being able to return fire. (I use the analogy of poker to explain: Tank vs Tank is similar to poker, there is a big luck factor and there is also decision making based on risk and reward. SPG currently is like a poker player who can suddenly enter a hand and cause you to lose a lot of money without risk of losing theirs, and in a rare situation where you can finally play a hand against them and win their money you can only win less than a third of what you risk every game.)

The analogy highlights the balance issues with SPG having indirect firing mode and also very small HP.

Small HP allowed countering in the current state of play, but since the SPG rework a few patches ago it is clear that nobody ever counters anymore because in all likelihood it would take more than one shot to do it and also because it is so easy to shoot spotted tanks, the stun mechanic almost completely prevents countering. Players understand that countering and stunning an enemy SPG is useless because nobody will be close to assist with stun. This further exacerbates the issue with indirect firing mode, players are getting hit even when behind very good cover, they cannot return fire, in most situations they cannot reposition because there is no suitable cover, and with no interest to counter from SPG on your team this compounds the anxiety when SPG is in the battle for the majority of all players in the game.

All game they are allowed to farm stun and damage without need to reposition or use much or any skill. SPG is an already very limited vehicle and a rework of the entire class would stop it from being a limited vehicle class.

When using a Tank a player will develop skills that apply to other Tank classes, example using a medium will also translate to developing skills using a light tank, not as much as using a light tank itself but still useful as both classes encounter similar situations.

It is only the SPG class that is the exception currently, by using SPG players do not learn skills they can use on other vehicles.

My proposal would change all of that.

 

Please consider offering me a position of correspondance to develop and greatly strengthen the health of this game , the health of a game is its reality. Balance is the most important thing for an ever developing game.

Dynamic gameplay is very important, Tanks offer a fun action packed dynamic playstyle, SPG is nearly the opposite. My proposal aims to rework the class so that SPG can have a much more dynamic playstyle that can also transcend to developing skills applicable in other tanks, removing the completely broken indirect firing mode but completely saving the vehicles already in the game.

No problems regarding peoples spent time researching and purchasing SPG.

 

Thankyou. More details and clarification is available on request.



Coopsjc21 #2 Posted 27 May 2018 - 06:52 PM

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No 



WindSplitter1 #3 Posted 27 May 2018 - 07:22 PM

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We already have those. They're called "Tank Destroyers".

The ISU-152 for instance is a self-propelled gun but not artillery. Makes the proposed changes quite moot.



gunslingerXXX #4 Posted 27 May 2018 - 07:23 PM

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You can find a far more simple counterproposal in my signature.

Spurtung #5 Posted 27 May 2018 - 07:28 PM

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View PostFreetoplay_KV2, on 27 May 2018 - 07:35 PM, said:

Please consider offering me a position of correspondance to develop and greatly strengthen the health of this game , the health of a game is its reality. Balance is the most important thing for an ever developing game.

 

This, on the EU forums.

lel



fighting_falcon93 #6 Posted 27 May 2018 - 07:43 PM

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So you want to turn an artillery into something that an artillery isn't but still call it an artillery? :amazed:

 

That's like making an apple taste like an orange but still call it an apple :facepalm:

 

No. Artillery should be removed, they don't belong in this game anyway. Artillery was designed to target soft targets like infantry or stationary targets, like bunkers, not tanks. That's what Jagdpanzers and Stukas was invented for.


Edited by fighting_falcon93, 27 May 2018 - 07:46 PM.


the_nebuchadnezzar #7 Posted 27 May 2018 - 08:10 PM

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TL&TR and the answer is no. 

ApocalypseSquad #8 Posted 27 May 2018 - 08:21 PM

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Or you could remove the guns from SPGs and make them spawn in the enemy cap circle? - That would have about the same effect as your suggested changes.

CraftyVeteran #9 Posted 27 May 2018 - 08:24 PM

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no

Vule777 #10 Posted 27 May 2018 - 08:27 PM

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Summary - because we can't remove arty, let's downgrade it so it become unplayable?

arthurwellsley #11 Posted 27 May 2018 - 08:47 PM

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No

Jigabachi #12 Posted 27 May 2018 - 08:52 PM

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Sooo... you want to remove the unique arty mechanic from the game and turn them into extremely situational and mostly useless TDs.

What about no?

 

That's one of the worst ideas I've read so far. In that case I'd vote for a full removal instead.



Jamadeus #13 Posted 27 May 2018 - 09:03 PM

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Block Quote

 That's what Jagdpanzers and Stukas was invented for.

 

Stukas, yes, give us Stukas.

NUKLEAR_SLUG #14 Posted 27 May 2018 - 09:14 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 27 May 2018 - 08:52 PM, said:

That's one of the worst ideas I've read so far. In that case I'd vote for a full removal instead.

 

 Agreed, this is definitely one of the worst ideas and I'd also vote for a full removal of OP.

Jigabachi #15 Posted 27 May 2018 - 09:32 PM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 27 May 2018 - 09:14 PM, said:

 Agreed, this is definitely one of the worst ideas and I'd also vote for a full removal of OP.

Nah, it's not that bad. Thinking about possible solutions is still much better than just yelling "remove!" right away.



HeidenSieker #16 Posted 27 May 2018 - 10:45 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 27 May 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:

Nah, it's not that bad. Thinking about possible solutions is still much better than just yelling "remove!" right away.

 

A button. That's what's needed. A big red button, possibly. One that can be gived a dashed good whack. One that performs the "remove" operation. An silent metaphorical explosion or t'other end of the interweb.

WoT_RU_Doing #17 Posted 27 May 2018 - 10:53 PM

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Hmm, as the OP has never actually played arty, let alone ground his way through to tier X on any of the lines, I'm not surprised he'd come up with a stupid suggestion that entails removing/re-tiering tanks he can't be bothered to work on himself. Likewise I'm not going to waste further time commenting on his suggestions.

Blubba #18 Posted 27 May 2018 - 11:37 PM

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Ok, I'll bite.

What was the response to your first posting of this particular piece?



Zylon0 #19 Posted 28 May 2018 - 12:14 AM

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Why do those that do not play artillery keep insisting changing artillery, just because you do not like getting hit.

You do not see artillery players whine in forums for years to nerf all other classes, because they get shot by them.

 

If you do not like arty, do not play it. Simple as that.

But to dictate to others how they should play is just wrong.

 

If you do not like how arty behave in the game, then play arty yourself and play by your own special rules.

 



Vule777 #20 Posted 28 May 2018 - 12:27 AM

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View PostZylon0, on 28 May 2018 - 12:14 AM, said:

 

Why do those that do not play artillery keep insisting changing artillery, just because you do not like getting hit.

You do not see artillery players whine in forums for years to nerf all other classes, because they get shot by them.

 

If you do not like arty, do not play it. Simple as that.

But to dictate to others how they should play is just wrong.

 

If you do not like how arty behave in the game, then play arty yourself and play by your own special rules.

 

 

That is just wrong and rude, don't tell them to play something that doesn't requires any skill, that playing just stupid and lazy people...it's not fair to insult...





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