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VK 30.02M


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iuytr #1 Posted 27 May 2018 - 09:43 PM

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In my self-imposed quest to MoE every tier 5 and 6 tank I'm stuck on this one :facepalm:

 

Which is strange as I managed to do the VK 30.01D and VK 30.01P quite easily, well under 150 battles. But this thing I'm over 500 battles and cannot get it. Any ideas/suggestions why? It's so similar to the VK 30.01D that I thought it should be easy!



wremise #2 Posted 27 May 2018 - 10:24 PM

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Well it is the Prototyp Panther... Unlike the sluggish P or the somewhat rubbish D, the M is played and loved by a lot of Players.

It is a really good Tier VI, so that should explain why the MoE is so high



iuytr #3 Posted 27 May 2018 - 10:31 PM

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Aha yes, that's a good point. But I can see from the server stats that although more battles are fought by it, the stats are actually not as good as the P and D. But assuming it's a bell curve then I take your point it will be harder to get to the MoE level. Annoying, as this and the Hummel (which I haven't played much) are the only two I have left to do.

wremise #4 Posted 01 June 2018 - 05:30 PM

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Well, I have thought about that thread and I had tried out my vkM after a long time. I dont know what you mean about the MoE is hard, Ive got it after the 1st battle.

 



iuytr #5 Posted 01 June 2018 - 07:54 PM

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That's not MoE.

 


Edited by iuytr, 01 June 2018 - 08:11 PM.


wremise #6 Posted 02 June 2018 - 10:53 AM

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Marks of Experience? the gun marks? well I havnt played enought for the secound and third, but the first one is also acceptable in my opinion

ignaskarate #7 Posted 11 June 2018 - 09:03 AM

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I have 2 moe on this tank and some time ago made to months top 10 players on this tank by dmg and wr. Being top tier, simply push meds line, use dmp. It has not reliable armour, but being top, slightly anlge and it is +- ok, you can outplay on dpm same tier meds and if get 1-2 bounces, its enough to have decent dmg at game end. The things go upwards being low tier. It is hard to do any significant dmg sniping from red line, but you have to hide hull, try to keep big enough distance to make oposite team players miss shots on you or bounce from turret. Turret armour is not reliable when low tier, so it kind of luck. Slightly move between shots, to make enemy miss on your turret and spam a lot of shells at enemy, a lot of you will miss, but some, will hit. Tank has a lot of ammo, so you will never run out of it. In case of emergency i carry 10 gold shells. Good luck.

_Sentinel_ #8 Posted 27 June 2018 - 02:35 AM

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I have 3 MoE on this tank, and I like it. However it's nothing special. There are much, much better tier 6 meds. It's a shame that this supposed sniper has to aim for 3 hours, has a bloom as large as half the screen when turning, and misses half the shots when fully aimed at a stationary target, not to mention that the penetration and damage are disappointing compared to Cromwells and Shermans with smaller guns who have about the same armor and pen stats, if not sometimes more. It's really just a slower, less maneuverable Cromwell, with a slower reload speed and a bit more hp and armor. Cromwells and other meds will circle you if you do the mistake of getting close and personal, and the gun likes to miss even point blank shots if they're not fully aimed. You have to stop so often to take aim, that it's not even funny, and you don't have a choice, but to do that, since if you try to get closer and unload faster you'll be getting yourself in a world of pain. Camo is bad. It's sluggish and accelerates slowly, meaning if you get spotted and especially if XVM shows you as green or more then prepare to get relentlessly showered by artilery. Armor is sometimes usable, but most tier 6 will pen it reliably and tier 7 and 8 will just laugh. IMO the tank and the KwK 42/70 in general need buffs.

 

Shitty thing is if they buff the KwK 42, then the already broken E25 will get an undeserved buff too...


Edited by _Sentinel_, 27 June 2018 - 02:56 AM.


iuytr #9 Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:55 PM

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Yay! Finally I managed to MoE this damn tank!!! Now just the Hummel left of the German Tier 5's and 6's and I'm not too fussed if I don't MoE that.

 

 



_Sentinel_ #10 Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:45 PM

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Why won't they make this damned 75 mm L70 gun accurate already? It aims longer than the T-34/85M gun, but to top it off it does pathetic damage. I thought this tank was supposed to be a sniper or something. 1.86 aim time??? WTF, I've personally seen it take like 4-5 seconds to fully aim, and I have a 4 skill crew on this and modules. It aims as long as a fking potato! What does this tank even have if it's not at least more accurate than the rest of the T6 meds?

 

By the time you're aimed the enemy is already long gone, and even if he isn't the 0.32 accuracy of this gun will make sure to send the shell into the ground right before the target, or flying into low earth orbit. 0.32...are you serious? I've seen better accuracy on 0.4 guns.

 

And don't even get me started on the wrong model and the terrible way the gun marks on this tank look.


Edited by _Sentinel_, 27 August 2018 - 11:57 PM.


pathed91 #11 Posted 28 August 2018 - 02:11 PM

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View Post_Sentinel_, on 27 August 2018 - 11:45 PM, said:

And don't even get me started on the wrong model and the terrible way the gun marks on this tank look.

 

What's wrong with the model?



kaneloon #12 Posted 28 August 2018 - 02:30 PM

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Hi.

True I liked this tank but didn't really performed in it. And I sold it to finance other tanks.

So I bought it again ( my personal quest is to ace all my played tanks ^^ ).

I did that plus the first mark :

http://wotreplays.eu...loon-vk_30_02_m

 

Dunno if it still works but to summarize this battle as top tiers : to deal at close range with tanks in 1v1, using its agility, its armor, pool of hitpoints, precision and dpm to wreck the enemies.

You really can be as cautiously aggressive as a heavy when top tiers.

 

When low tiers it is more a sniper role, to as least perma track the higher tiers to have assistance damage.



_Sentinel_ #13 Posted 28 August 2018 - 05:39 PM

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View Postpathed91, on 28 August 2018 - 01:11 PM, said:

 

What's wrong with the model?

 

Comparison from the side, look at the suspension:

 

Tier 7 Panther

Spoiler

Also note how the 2 marks of excellence are displayed on the 75 mm L70 on the Panther

 

Tier 6 Pudel

Spoiler

 

VK 3002 M

Spoiler

Also note the way the 3 marks of excellence are displayed...pathetic, you can barely see them from this distance, and from afar they're invisible.

 

From the rear the errors in the VK 3002 M model are obvious too

 

Panther

Spoiler

 

Pudel

Spoiler

 

VK 3002 M

Spoiler

 

The gap between the tracks and the hull above is non-existent on the 3002. In fact the tank is so much lower, that looking at all 3 tanks from the side and from the same position in the garage, the 3002 is the only one where the sun shows above the turret and almost blinds you

 

Here's a side by side comparison of the gun marks on the same gun on both the VK 3002 and the Panther, that I did on another computer with slightly lower graphical settings. VK on top, Panther bellow.

Spoiler

Again these are 2 MoE on the Panther and THREE on the VK 3002 M.


Edited by _Sentinel_, 28 August 2018 - 05:46 PM.


pathed91 #14 Posted 28 August 2018 - 10:40 PM

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View Post_Sentinel_, on 28 August 2018 - 05:39 PM, said:

 

Comparison from the side, look at the suspension:

 

 

It seems to be rather small differences in hight, like there are small differrences between T- 34-85 and T-34-85M.

 

I think I saw some larger inaccuracy in the suspension of the valentine (I think it was that tank) where one of the arms connected to the rear boogie was not modeled as a rigid component, but as a flexible one as if it was made out of rubber.



_Sentinel_ #15 Posted 28 August 2018 - 11:09 PM

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View Postpathed91, on 28 August 2018 - 09:40 PM, said:

 

It seems to be rather small differences in hight, like there are small differrences between T- 34-85 and T-34-85M.

 

The T-34/85 M is from much later after the war. It even had a different suspension. It's normal that it's different.

 

The VK 3002 M is the Panther. And let's return to the other characteristics of the tank. FFS this gun aims for ages! What a great thing to have on a "sniper" tank. I mean I'm not sure if it should be a sniper at all, but it sure as hell can't be a brawler, cause even other meds can circle you with your terrible track and turret traverse, so what's left? Stay far and snipe! But how with this potato version of the L70 which aims for 3 hours and even then has the audacity to miss by a mile.

 

0.32 accuracy my butt! Maybe 0.32 for 1 shot, and then 0.45 for the next 3. At least that's how it feels like.


Edited by _Sentinel_, 28 August 2018 - 11:30 PM.


pathed91 #16 Posted 28 August 2018 - 11:33 PM

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View Post_Sentinel_, on 28 August 2018 - 11:09 PM, said:

 

The T-34/85 M is from much later after the war. It even had a different suspension. It's normal that it's different.

 

The VK 3002 M is the Panther. And let's return to the other characteristics of the tank. FFS this gun aims for ages! What a great thing to have on a "sniper" tank. I mean I'm not sure if it should be a sniper at all, but it sure as hell can't be a brawler, cause even other meds can circle you with your terrible track and turret traverse, so what's left? Stay far and snipe! But how with this potato version of the L70 which aims for 3 hours and even then has the audacity to miss by a mile.

 

It's not a sniper, it's a medium with workable armor. If you want to a sniper at tier 6 then firefly or strv 74 are much better choices. I find the VK M to be much better at taking and holding positions during the early game than other mediums at the tier. Cromwells will arive at the vital map positions first, but because the crapgunhandling and lack of armor they are much easier to beat down than a VK M.

_Sentinel_ #17 Posted 29 August 2018 - 12:29 AM

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View Postpathed91, on 28 August 2018 - 10:33 PM, said:

 

It's not a sniper, it's a medium with workable armor. If you want to a sniper at tier 6 then firefly or strv 74 are much better choices. I find the VK M to be much better at taking and holding positions during the early game than other mediums at the tier. Cromwells will arive at the vital map positions first, but because the crapgunhandling and lack of armor they are much easier to beat down than a VK M.

 

 

Dude! The Cromwell has the same gun handling as the 3002 M! If the Cromwell gun handling is crap, then so is the 3002, as in fact I'm trying to make it clear for everyone. Look!

I tested them both with the same equipment and the same BIA only crews. If you don't believe me go in your garage and check them out.

 

Here's what's going to happen in the situation you described. Cromwell will be on the key position long before you, so he'll spot you along the way and you have to hope not to get rekt by his teammates. Next when you get there, the Cromwell isn't in fact as accurate as you. He is MORE ACCURATE because he has pre-aimed and you are still going at full speed and need 3-4 seconds to aim the gun...yes at least that much, dunno why they insist on these 1.92. So the Cromwell hits you and pens with the first shot, because it's actually not hard to pen a 3002 M, while you either get lucky and hit him or you most likely miss, because he won't give you the time to aim. But the crap doesn't end there, because on top of all he also reloads faster, so he has a second shot at you for free while you reload. If you're lucky and he over exposes himself you might hit him the second time, but that's a rare occasion.

 

I don't want a sniper actually. I want a good tank that feels nice while playing, and I want it to be a Panther. I don't care about the Firefly let alone that fantasy tank strv 74 and I'm not interested in playing them even if they were the best tier 6 tanks.

 

Oh and to add insult to injury the Cromwell can also sidescrape against the tons of 122 mm guns in the game because it has 2 mm more side armor making the 122 unable to overmatch the sides of the Cromwell by the 3 calibers rule. Not that any Cromwell should ever do that anyway, but it gives an opportunity to bait a shot from a KV-85 or IS or SU-100  and then use the OP mobility to circle them. The 3002 M with its workable(indeed sometimes it is workable) armor and 40 mm sides can't hope for anything like this.


Edited by _Sentinel_, 29 August 2018 - 12:35 AM.


Eokokok #18 Posted 29 August 2018 - 02:57 PM

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Not gonna go with either side for this 'it aims for ages' vs 'it is ok' - but the post above proves completely and utterly nothing. Aim time, while important, has a secondary value in estimating the 'snapiness' of the gun, soft stats are what matters.

 

Bloom is actually very good on VK M and I cannot grasp the idea of it being bad at range, or maybe someone is comparing it to the godly tier 9 medium bloom of Strv 74? Dunno.



pathed91 #19 Posted 29 August 2018 - 03:19 PM

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View Post_Sentinel_, on 29 August 2018 - 12:29 AM, said:

 

 

Dude! The Cromwell has the same gun handling as the 3002 M! If the Cromwell gun handling is crap, then so is the 3002, as in fact I'm trying to make it clear for everyone. Look!

I tested them both with the same equipment and the same BIA only crews. If you don't believe me go in your garage and check them out.

 

Here's what's going to happen in the situation you described. Cromwell will be on the key position long before you, so he'll spot you along the way and you have to hope not to get rekt by his teammates. Next when you get there, the Cromwell isn't in fact as accurate as you. He is MORE ACCURATE because he has pre-aimed and you are still going at full speed and need 3-4 seconds to aim the gun...yes at least that much, dunno why they insist on these 1.92. So the Cromwell hits you and pens with the first shot, because it's actually not hard to pen a 3002 M, while you either get lucky and hit him or you most likely miss, because he won't give you the time to aim. But the crap doesn't end there, because on top of all he also reloads faster, so he has a second shot at you for free while you reload. If you're lucky and he over exposes himself you might hit him the second time, but that's a rare occasion.

 

I don't want a sniper actually. I want a good tank that feels nice while playing, and I want it to be a Panther. I don't care about the Firefly let alone that fantasy tank strv 74 and I'm not interested in playing them even if they were the best tier 6 tanks.

 

Oh and to add insult to injury the Cromwell can also sidescrape against the tons of 122 mm guns in the game because it has 2 mm more side armor making the 122 unable to overmatch the sides of the Cromwell by the 3 calibers rule. Not that any Cromwell should ever do that anyway, but it gives an opportunity to bait a shot from a KV-85 or IS or SU-100  and then use the OP mobility to circle them. The 3002 M with its workable(indeed sometimes it is workable) armor and 40 mm sides can't hope for anything like this.

 

  1. VK M has better bloom values on the gun, that will effect the actual aim time of the gun.
  2. A hypothetical dual between a cromwell and VK M would most likely be decided by the map, what you are describing would be accurate on serene coast but on something like the middle on fishermans bay VK M has enough cover to get into position without getting caught out by the cromwell. When both tanks have reached the middle VK M will have the advantage because of it has more armor and hp.
  3. strv 74 is a real tank that was in service. Your complain about VK M was that it was a bad sniper, and I said that it's not a support tank like the firefly or strv 74.
  4. Sure, you can't sidescrape a 122mm gun in a VK M, but in every other situation it has far better armor than the cromwell. You said yourself that sidescraping in a cromwell against 122mm guns is a bad idea. 

 



_Sentinel_ #20 Posted 29 August 2018 - 03:31 PM

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Well I don't have a Cromwell so I can go in the game, make screenshots and measure if the Cromwell has a worse bloom, but I decided to quickly go and check a few videos of people playing it and see what this "horrible" gun handling of the Cromwell compared to the "great" accuracy of the VK 3002 M is all about. Took the first results even though they are the B, since everyone says the 2 Cromwells are the same.

 

 

 

I see the same gun handling I have every time I play the VK 3002 M!


Edited by _Sentinel_, 29 August 2018 - 03:32 PM.





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