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Is spall liner viable on heavy tanks?


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zero_fox_given #1 Posted 29 May 2018 - 09:19 AM

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specifically 705 and 705A.

i didnt follow the flow after the new release but i know it was not as usefull as it seemed to be before 1.0

my personal feeling is that i see lower numbers of can.. arty or HE spammers but then sometimes i get really big hit so im not sure

laughed so hard when i got yoloed yesterday by FV barn and got massive 16 dmg while he died in pain :)



Dorander #2 Posted 29 May 2018 - 09:22 AM

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I put one back on my Maus. It helps a little, but not sure it's worth it. Primarily it reduces ridiculous-deathstar-annoyance and well, big slow tanks like that are artillery magnets, definitely helps against those. Just not sure if it's worth losing vents over.

 

Afraid I have no specific experience with the tanks you mention.


Edited by Dorander, 29 May 2018 - 09:23 AM.


__SLICK__ #3 Posted 29 May 2018 - 09:26 AM

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Other equipment items will be a lot more useful a lot more often. Aim time/vision/reload improvements all more useful.

firelars4 #4 Posted 29 May 2018 - 09:28 AM

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on 705 and 705A it's not really worth it. It's better to only use them on super heavies, especially Type 5s.

undutchable80 #5 Posted 29 May 2018 - 09:36 AM

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Only run it on my TOG II and the Pz.Kpfw. B2 740 (f). Considering running it on my Churchill, since I get artied sooooooo much....

Dava_117 #6 Posted 29 May 2018 - 09:37 AM

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I use it on KV-4 and ST-I to counter the jap derp. I won't suggest you to mount it tho, because 705 and 705A have rear monted turret, so HE aimed at it will probably splash the 40mm hull roof and spall liner works better on very high thickness.

Merton15 #7 Posted 29 May 2018 - 09:37 AM

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I have occasionally fitted them to superheavies and on the Tortoise where I know a lot of HE and arty shells are coming my way and I lack the mobility to avoid them. It will also reduce stunning time and crew injury. On a tank like the 705 that relies on mobility and armour slope it probably isn't worth it.

SuperOlsson #8 Posted 29 May 2018 - 09:43 AM

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Nope, it only increases armour effectiveness against HE by 30% for 705 and 50% for 705A, which means e.g your hull roof will be 52 and 60 mm effective instead of 40 mm against HE, meaning you’ll take like 500 damage instead of 550 when hit by arty/type4-5/FV-x. Will save some crewmembers though but with the recharging consumables it is really not needed.

axell92108 #9 Posted 29 May 2018 - 09:55 AM

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I have one on the AT-15A. I also have a repair toolkit and a rammer. Should i change the liner for vents?

undutchable80 #10 Posted 29 May 2018 - 10:01 AM

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View PostSuperOlsson, on 29 May 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

Nope, it only increases armour effectiveness against HE by 30% for 705 and 50% for 705A, which means e.g your hull roof will be 52 and 60 mm effective instead of 40 mm against HE, meaning you’ll take like 500 damage instead of 550 when hit by arty/type4-5/FV-x. Will save some crewmembers though but with the recharging consumables it is really not needed.

 

Where can you calculate / compare that?

SuperOlsson #11 Posted 29 May 2018 - 10:45 AM

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View Postundutchable80, on 29 May 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

 

Where can you calculate / compare that?

 

By using the formula for HE Shell mechanics from http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Battle_Mechanics#HE_Shells :

Equation_explosion-damage.png

 

Armor values can be fetched from tanks.gg. Let's say the 705A gets hit in the turret from a T92 shooting a normal round, the damage will splash to hull roof. For the sake of it hits assume 0.4m from hull roof. Nominal damage = 1300, splash radius = 13m. Average damage without spall liner will be:


 

0.5*1300*(1-0.4/13)-1.1*(40*1) = 586 damage on average


 

With superheavy spall liner:


 

0.5*1300*(1-0.4/13)-1.1*(40*1.5) = 564 damage on average.


 

Any competent player shooting high-damage HE rounds in e.g. Type 5 will try to hit lower part of your turret to splash into hull roof, or tracks under the hull to splash in the floor of your tank. Even if the T92 directly hits an armor piece of 200mm the difference is 430 dmg vs 320 dmg, so about 25% reduction in that case.


 

 


Edited by SuperOlsson, 29 May 2018 - 10:47 AM.


Merton15 #12 Posted 29 May 2018 - 10:46 AM

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View Postundutchable80, on 29 May 2018 - 09:01 AM, said:

 

Where can you calculate / compare that?

Non penetrating hits cost you half the full pen minus the armour thickness. Note it isn't necessarily the armour at the point of impact, but where the explosion splashes to. So on the 705, a shot to the 300mm turret armour may splash down onto the flat 40mm upper plate and that will hurt with or without a liner. Liners are not worth it unless the tank has thick all round armour.



Gremlin182 #13 Posted 29 May 2018 - 11:09 AM

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I put one on my Type 5 because there it really helps.

Problem I have with some tanks is the roof of the hull and turret, type 5 has 76mm in most areas and 90 in others.

Many spgs will not pen that so the spall liner is great.

The 705 and 705 A have between 40mm and 60mm Thats fine for some mid tier arty that has around 39 pen maybe not for high tiers.

 

So on tanks with much weaker armour there it doesn't help with direct hits but can with splashes from near misses.

Is it worth having that depends if you are constantly targeted by arty it could be worth it.

If not then other equipment will serve you better.

 

 

 

 



zero_fox_given #14 Posted 29 May 2018 - 11:45 AM

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splashes, splashes

does anyone know how the splashes work?

because on every tank there are various levels of armor and if the splash radius is in meters, i would assume it would be too heavy for computational power to count just one arty hit

isnt it that it is much easier and it checks armor thickness just at the point of impact? i just dont believe it is so sophisticated



HundeWurst #15 Posted 29 May 2018 - 11:58 AM

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No.

NoobySkooby #16 Posted 29 May 2018 - 11:58 AM

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Essential on my TOG II, even put them on my matilda's just to feel extra hard, lol




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