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Gameplay Question Regarding Tiers (not mm)


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LeetyMcLeet #1 Posted 31 May 2018 - 01:47 AM

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If we could keep this post 'flame free', that would be great. I have a genuine question.

 

I want to understand the logic/thinking behind the tier system.

 

Why do tanks, especially those that aren't even considered good in their own tier, forced to play against tanks that are classed two tiers higher? Obviously these tanks have superior armour, superior weapons and are often faster as well.

 

If the thinking is to increase a players' skill and/or awareness of the battlefield, then that would be down to mm against players of a higher tier. That's the best way to improve IMO. In reality, however, any old numb nuts can kill a tier 4 medium tank with a tier 6 heavy tank without even giving it a second thought.

 

Queue toxic responses in 3...2...1...


Edited by LeetyMcLeet, 31 May 2018 - 01:48 AM.


firelars4 #2 Posted 31 May 2018 - 07:18 AM

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If played right, the tier 4 could also kill the tier 6. 

 

Ofcourse +1/-1 MM would be great, but there would be a lot of tanks that would perform way better and tank that would perform way worse because of this change. So there would need to be a massive rework for a lot of vehicles. 

 

I'm assuming you're talking about skill based MM aswell. This wouldn't work since it'd be just a huge camp fest (look at ranked battles for example)



gunslingerXXX #3 Posted 31 May 2018 - 07:43 AM

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To understand the logic/thinking, it's important to consider the game as a commercial business, not a tool to entertain as much as possible.

_Sensation_ #4 Posted 31 May 2018 - 08:00 AM

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Because It's Wargaming game. Their interest is not to balance a good gameplay nor to make it fair. But to make money. Period

250swb #5 Posted 31 May 2018 - 08:18 AM

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View Postfirelars4, on 31 May 2018 - 06:18 AM, said:

If played right, the tier 4 could also kill the tier 6. 

 

I'm assuming you're talking about skill based MM aswell. This wouldn't work since it'd be just a huge camp fest (look at ranked battles for example)

 

Aren't you forgetting there are also more tier IV tanks than tier VI, in theory the dpm of those tanks should outweigh the dpm of the tier VI tank.

 

The reason skill based MM wouldn't work is not because of the campfest, but because very quickly above average players would start to whine that their WR was going down. If you play against equal players you are going to win 50% of your battles, the clue is in the word 'equal', everything being equal player skills will just cancel each other out. And even low skilled players will achieve a 50% WR because they are only playing against other equally skilled players. Everybody would end up with a 50% WR, because there would be no tomatoes to shoot. If a player was so good they could beat everybody else in the game they would still only have a 50% WR because there wouldn't be anybody else they can play against.



RamRaid90 #6 Posted 31 May 2018 - 08:29 AM

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View Post_Sensation_, on 31 May 2018 - 07:00 AM, said:

Because It's Wargaming game. Their interest is not to balance a good gameplay nor to make it fair. But to make money. Period

 

So businesses should sacrifice profits in order for people to be happy?

 

They are making money, and each time they change it "for the worse" they STILL make money. That alone is indication enough to them that what they're doing is working for what they want. Making profit.

 

Just be thankful this is not an EA game.


Edited by RamRaid90, 31 May 2018 - 08:29 AM.


Slyspy #7 Posted 31 May 2018 - 08:39 AM

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To keep the MM quick.

 

To encourage the expenditure of credits and so the expenditure of cash.

 

To encourage people to grind towards that bigger, better tank and to encourage the expenditure of cash. 

 

To give even the worst players a boost in power so that they may have their bug game while also providing a challenging environment. 



kejmo #8 Posted 31 May 2018 - 09:26 AM

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Whatever the Tier, you're up against 3 c4rcinomes which destroy every Tier gameplay + exactly why Slyspy stated out.

Edited by kejmo, 31 May 2018 - 09:26 AM.


LeetyMcLeet #9 Posted 31 May 2018 - 02:57 PM

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Thanks for the responses, guys.

 

First off, I don't mind spending money on the game every now and then, that's fine. I'm not one to spend £50 on a single tank because that's just ridiculous, but certainly the odd £5/10 per month is fine given the number of hours played and overall enjoyment of the game. Having said that, it's hard to enjoy the game atm when, for example, a Tier 4 Matilda (@ potential of 55 dmg) finds itself up against a decent or, hell, even a relatively low-skilled player in a Tier 6 KV-2 (@ potential of 300 dmg), for example. I just find the inevitable defeat of such an encounter and by extension the lack of influence (as the lower tier, inferior tank) I can have on the overall battle boring. In this example, I'm essentially a spectator hoping that our Tier 6 players can defeat theirs, which is just plain stupid? ALL players should be able to influence the battle in one way or another, making it more enjoyable everyone.

 

250swb, just to clarify, my question was regarding the tiers and the HUGE differences in fire power, armour, speed, etc. between them and not individual player skill. Using the example above, it doesn't take any skill for someone in a KV-2 to point and click at a Tier 4 Matilda without having to consider where to hit their opponent or their own positioning and angling, etc. It's just boring, especially for the guy in the Tilly.



ThinGun #10 Posted 31 May 2018 - 03:04 PM

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I always assumed the apparent mismatch in tanks was to replicate the genuine tank battles in wartime, when modest tanks, used by skillful or lucky commanders could overcome more powerful adversaries.  Plus of course, encouraging teamwork .... (LOL)

Dosjer007 #11 Posted 31 May 2018 - 03:06 PM

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View Postkejmo, on 31 May 2018 - 09:26 AM, said:

Whatever the Tier, you're up against 3 c4rcinomes which destroy every Tier gameplay + exactly why Slyspy stated out.

Carcinoma?  Lol

 

Other synonyms: Neoplasia. Neoplasm. Malignant tumor.



Aimless #12 Posted 31 May 2018 - 03:22 PM

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View PostLeetyMcLeet, on 31 May 2018 - 02:57 PM, said:

Thanks for the responses, guys.

 

my question was regarding the tiers and the HUGE differences in fire power, armour, speed, etc. between them and not individual player skill. Using the example above, it doesn't take any skill for someone in a KV-2 to point and click at a Tier 4 Matilda without having to consider where to hit their opponent or their own positioning and angling, etc. It's just boring, especially for the guy in the Tilly.

 

You chose a really bad example with KV-2 vs Matilda. If you compare firepower and armor, they are not far away from each other. The Matilda is more accurate by far and has a way better gun handling. On top of that, it can see the KV-2 earlier than the other way round. Matilda is gonna outsmart and kill the KV-2 noob, no question. If not, bad luck or poor player. All you have to understand is, while the Matilda is a great brawler when top tier, you better stay hidden if not.

 

KV-2 vs Panzer III however is a completely different story...



Balc0ra #13 Posted 31 May 2018 - 03:39 PM

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Depends. As there are tanks that were so useless in a +2 game that WG gave them pref MM. This including tier 4 HT's. As even the B1 had +2 MM at one time.  As IMO HT's usually can suffer the worst doing their role in a +2 vs other classes. Being forced to playing 2nd line support even at times. Less bad on lights and meds IMO, even with terrible pen. As the Chaffee with sub 100 pen still works in a bully/flanking role vs +2 even. But ofc, flanking is not a luxury you always have. 

 

View PostLeetyMcLeet, on 31 May 2018 - 01:47 AM, said:

If the thinking is to increase a players' skill and/or awareness of the battlefield, then that would be down to mm against players of a higher tier. That's the best way to improve IMO. In reality, however, any old numb nuts can kill a tier 4 medium tank with a tier 6 heavy tank without even giving it a second thought.

 

So they can in a tier 6 HT vs a tier 5 med if you are fighting bad apples. Issue is that most seek out the tier 6 HT in a tier 4 during the first 60 sec of the game. Enemy has an O-I. A target a tier 4 med can't pen unless you get the side plate at range, or close up under his gun. Tier 4 med goes the HT line racing past his KV-85 so he gets to fight him first, vs going the med line to fight tier 4 and 5 lights & meds. And when they play like that, +1 MM won't help them tbh. I would not even do that in my tier 5 med vs an O-I.

 

 


Edited by Balc0ra, 31 May 2018 - 03:40 PM.





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