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Future additions to the WGNA EULA?

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dronology #1 Posted 02 June 2018 - 03:47 AM

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„5.4 Ownership of Your Account. NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY HEREIN, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU SHALL HAVE NO OWNERSHIP OR OTHER PROPERTY INTEREST IN YOUR ACCOUNT, AND THAT ALL RIGHTS IN AND TO YOUR ACCOUNT ARE AND SHALL FOREVER BE OWNED BY AND INURE TO THE BENEFIT OF WARGAMING. YOU FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU HAVE NO CLAIM, RIGHT, TITLE, OWNERSHIP, OR OTHER PROPRIETARY INTEREST IN THE ADDITIONAL FEATURES (AS DEFINED BELOW) THAT YOU UNLOCK OR ACCUMULATE, REGARDLESS OF ANY CONSIDERATION OFFERED OR PAID IN EXCHANGE FOR SUCH ADDITIONAL FEATURES. FURTHERMORE, WARGAMING SHALL NOT BE LIABLE IN ANY MANNER FOR THE DESTRUCTION, DELETION, MODIFICATION, IMPAIRMENT, HACKING, OR ANY OTHER DAMAGE OR LOSS OF ANY KIND CAUSED TO THE GAME CONTENT OR ADDITIONAL FEATURES, INCLUDING THE DELETION OF GAME CONTENT OR ADDITIONAL FEATURES UPON THE TERMINATION OR EXPIRATION OF YOUR ACCOUNT.

9.3.1 you acknowledge and agree that Wargaming retains ownership of the Fansite Content, and any and all derivative works thereof, and has the right to amend, delete, add to or otherwise modify, or to revoke the foregoing license with respect to, any items of Fansite Content at any time;

9.3.6 the Fansite will not post material that is disparaging, illegal or infringes on the rights of any third party or that damages (or that might damage) the reputation of Wargaming or of any of the Games;

9.3.7 except as expressly permitted in this EULA, you shall not rent, lease, reproduce, modify, translate the Fansite Content, or make an adaptation of (including without limitation fiction or visual art), or in any way exploit, any of the Content without our express written permission; and

9.3.8 you must not make, or seek to make, any commercial use or profit out of the Fansite Content (including for example by selling subscriptions to your Fansite) without our prior written consent.

9.4 If you fail to comply with any of the terms set out in this section, we reserve the right to terminate your license over the Fansite Content and also to close your Account.

9.5 All goodwill arising from your use of Fansite Content, including from use of any trademarks owned by Wargaming, shall inure solely to the benefit of Wargaming.”

 

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Some other changes (compiled by uisinart_Killa):

  1. No class action lawsuits, and a change to your legal representation to arbitration.
  2. Anything you submit or post to wargaming or the WG forums belongs to them, along with all rights for use and reproduction.
  3. You’re not allowed to make money on any content without written permission, this means web sites with ads, or youtube videos.

 

 

https://thearmoredpa...cially-illegal/

 

 

What is going on here? :(


Edited by dronology, 02 June 2018 - 03:48 AM.


Renesco #2 Posted 02 June 2018 - 04:05 AM

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Just big companies doing big company things

Spurtung #3 Posted 02 June 2018 - 04:41 AM

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View Postdronology, on 02 June 2018 - 04:47 AM, said:

What is going on here? :(

 

I'm guessing "we do what we want to PMM tanks regardless of you paying for it, shut up and suck it" with a hint of "your account might be deleted if your fan site speaks ill of us" sprinkled with "you may only monetize from our content with our written permision, regardless of what Ph3lan said in the aftermath of Fochgate, because we care about our staff as much as we care about our customers".

 

In short, WG is pleading everyone to close their wallets. Smart.


Edited by Spurtung, 02 June 2018 - 04:43 AM.


Makotti #4 Posted 02 June 2018 - 05:56 AM

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View PostSpurtung, on 02 June 2018 - 05:41 AM, said:

 

I'm guessing "we do what we want to PMM tanks regardless of you paying for it, shut up and suck it" with a hint of "your account might be deleted if your fan site speaks ill of us" sprinkled with "you may only monetize from our content with our written permision, regardless of what Ph3lan said in the aftermath of Fochgate, because we care about our staff as much as we care about our customers".

 

In short, WG is pleading everyone to close their wallets. Smart.

 

I would really like to know what's happening behind the curtains. Things have been going more or less working for last 7 years and now they pull all kind of manure out of hat. Not just this, whole PMM-charade and all new way drunk balancing dept.

 

I am old player and have enjoyed this game and whilst enjoying I've put somewhat decent amount of money to game I like. It seems now it's time to close my wallet and see shall we get reasonable solution for our PMM-tanks (money refund or keep PMM, perhaps with small buffs). I'm sure single person doing this won't matter a thing but maybe there are more thinking like me.

 

#walletclosed

 

 



PauI #5 Posted 02 June 2018 - 06:19 AM

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According to eu laws you can not sign my rights away....you sons of *stalin*

Edited by PauI, 02 June 2018 - 06:20 AM.


storm4710 #6 Posted 02 June 2018 - 08:05 AM

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dammit WG 

Jigabachi #7 Posted 02 June 2018 - 08:15 AM

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View PostRenesco, on 02 June 2018 - 04:05 AM, said:

Just big companies doing big company things

The part about "fansites" spreading negative things about the game, that's indeed big company stuff to silence critics.

But the previous one about ownership and stuff is needed so that developers can fix issues without egomaniacs and other morons coming in to claim compensation and stuff. In WG's case, it looks a bit different, but it's still what all developers (even the best and most loved ones) do to have less sleepless nights before they change something. 



krismorgan #8 Posted 02 June 2018 - 09:51 AM

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EU laws and wg laws-Control the population/playerbase.No criticism allowed.

Bordhaw #9 Posted 02 June 2018 - 10:16 AM

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View Postdronology, on 02 June 2018 - 02:47 AM, said:

What is going on here? :(

 

People copying and pasting from blogs information that they don't understand. 



TsundereWaffle #10 Posted 02 June 2018 - 10:20 AM

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So is WG actually changing the EULA so you legally cannot criticize WG anymore?

Anyways, I am quite certain that this EULA is simply not allowed by law, in both the US and Europe.



TankkiPoju #11 Posted 02 June 2018 - 11:46 AM

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It means once WG shuts down NA servers, the EULA says you have no claim over the content on your account.

Nishi_Kinuyo #12 Posted 02 June 2018 - 12:04 PM

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Aren't most of those changed illegal to begin with?

Or are they legal in freedonia?

 

Anyhow, pretty much all of those changes are illegal in the EEA/EU, so we should all be safe, or we can drag them to court over it and win.



Etre_ #13 Posted 02 June 2018 - 12:21 PM

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I like how with all the smart and successful IRL that we have here on the forums we don't see someone suing  WG.

 

Or those wanna be lawyers all google the big words before posting ?



PauI #14 Posted 02 June 2018 - 12:27 PM

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View PostEtre_, on 02 June 2018 - 11:21 AM, said:

I like how with all the smart and successful IRL that we have here on the forums we don't see someone suing  WG.

 

Or those wanna be lawyers all google the big words before posting ?

No need to sue wg right from the start.....a complaint to your eu local customer protection authority is a good start...

This is not about lawyers is about common sense...something wg lost along the successful existence.....you had a lot of posts i agree with...surely u find this conditions suitable for rashan gulags or?


Edited by PauI, 02 June 2018 - 12:29 PM.


Aikl #15 Posted 02 June 2018 - 12:32 PM

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View PostEtre_, on 02 June 2018 - 11:21 AM, said:

I like how with all the smart and successful IRL that we have here on the forums we don't see someone suing  WG.

 

Or those wanna be lawyers all google the big words before posting ?

 

It's generally hard to sue them for something they've yet to do, if I'm not mistaken. Not that suing them is even necessary. There are alternate means of pursuing claims, which do not require any real investment in time or money, nor much in the way of competence.

 

WG's biggest mistake is how they approach this issue, and the lack of goodwill.



Etre_ #16 Posted 02 June 2018 - 12:32 PM

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View PostPauI, on 02 June 2018 - 12:27 PM, said:

No need to sue wg right from the start.....a complaint to your eu local customer protection authority is a good start...

This is not about lawyers is about common sense...something wg lost along the successful existence.....you had a lot of posts i agree with...surely u find this conditions suitable for rashan gulags or?

 

I keep waiting for us to do more than just run our mouths on forums.

I'm a layman when it  comes to law. I apply my common sense like you said and google the rest. But I will support if someone takes the lead. 

 

View PostAikl, on 02 June 2018 - 12:32 PM, said:

 

It's generally hard to sue them for something they've yet to do, if I'm not mistaken. Not that suing them is even necessary. There are alternate means of pursuing claims, which do not require any real investment in time or money, nor much in the way of competence.

 

WG's biggest mistake is how they approach this issue, and the lack of goodwill.

 

 

Like ? I assume you are referring to filling complains with some EU agency.

 

 


Edited by Etre_, 02 June 2018 - 12:34 PM.


RaxipIx #17 Posted 02 June 2018 - 01:11 PM

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They can change the EULA as long as they wish , they still need to   abide the law, and if they do not, then they are susceptible to pretty bad things, like all companies do..

 

I'm like 99% sure they will offer a refund in money if they go on with this PMM tank changes debacle, for those people who bough it with  money. They might not advertise it, but they will still do it imo.



Dorander #18 Posted 02 June 2018 - 01:53 PM

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There's a few details worth pointing out here.

 

First off, those paragraphs seem to refer to something called "Fansite Content" which as written suggests that it's specifically defined, especially as clause 9.4 suggests there is a specific license for it. A quick google found this:

 

https://worldoftanks...ks-fansite-kit/

 

Wargaming apparently offers some content art to help you make your fansite look like a genuine World of Tanks product, and obviously their logos, any pictures they provided, etc. are, will and really should be Wargaming's property. I also understand the "disparaging" bit in that content, they are providing these kits so that people can create proper fansites, if somebody used those in order to slander Wargaming it's quite understandable that this is not the underlying idea. Obviously nothing else prevents you from using your freedom of speech to criticise Wargaming or its products, as long as you don't employ their property in order to do so.

 

When it comes to TAP being legal or illegal, it depends on whether they used Wargaming property to build their site, and there's also a question of where their servers are. I saw the author of the article mentioned living in the EU and assuming he'd be fine, but if his content is hosted in the USA, USA law applies, because the agreement applies to the content.

 

 

Now, hopping back to the EU and what a new EULA can and cannot do. Clause 5.4 above states in very capitalized letters that you don't own your account. I don't recall exactly what the EU variant states, it does claim you only get a license to use your WG account and its content and don't own it but it's not quite that bold-faced. We also know that WG is a *bit* more careful in changing/deleting content that you've paid for in Europe, such as your premium tanks.

 

That's because there's a significant difference between EU and USA law last I checked, and my checking was about a year ago when on this forum we discussed ownership of our account especially in the context of premium tanks. The key question was "Do I own software that I pay for and download on the Internet?" especially given that most companies tell you you only buy a license to use the software and don't own the software. The short answer is: yes you do.

 

The relevant case for this is from 2012, "UsedSoft v. Oracle", where a German based company tried to sell on Oracle licenses to new users and Oracle objected, claiming they owned the software and the license was non-transferrable. However, the EU really disagreed, stating that since both the license and the software could not function without the other component, they were essentially one product, and that the product was paid for by the first customer and this exhausted the right to first sale and thus Oracle's claim of ownership. Furthermore the case specified that the tranfer method was irrelevant, it did not matter whether you came into possession of the software through a physical carrier such as a disc, or an Internet download. If you want to read through the legal document, here's a source: http://curia.europa....4564&doclang=EN

 

However, the USA's 9th circuit court ruled the opposite in a similar case in 2010, stating that a licensed user is not an owner. Source: https://caselaw.find...it/1537762.html

 

While both the USA and the EU have the "right to first sale" law, their higher courts applied completely opposite interpretations to how this right to first sale applies to software licensing. So in the NA, a EULA like the one above is probably completely legal, and in the EU probably very illegal. We shouldn't assume the law is equal here and there, and we also should not assume that the consequent excrement they can get away with in the NA will therefor also be introduced here, but we should keep an eye out.



Long_Range_Sniper #19 Posted 02 June 2018 - 02:24 PM

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Didn´t this just appear soon after arthurwellesley sent them a letter threatening legal action?

 

#tinfoil



Dorander #20 Posted 02 June 2018 - 02:46 PM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 02 June 2018 - 01:24 PM, said:

Didn´t this just appear soon after arthurwellesley sent them a letter threatening legal action?

 

#tinfoil

 

They must be using the free world USA as a testing ground for their communist capitalist tactics so they can bungle perfect them before implementing them in the old world European Union!





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