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Wargaming NA new EULA gives you no rights to your account.


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_CrownVictoria_ #1 Posted 02 June 2018 - 01:44 PM

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Wargaming NA will apply some nice additions to their EULA. Making all your premium tanks belong to Wargaming and giving you actually zero rights to YOUR account...

5.4 Ownership of Your Account. NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY HEREIN, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU SHALL HAVE NO OWNERSHIP OR OTHER PROPERTY INTEREST IN YOUR ACCOUNT, AND THAT ALL RIGHTS IN AND TO YOUR ACCOUNT ARE AND SHALL FOREVER BE OWNED BY AND INURE TO THE BENEFIT OF WARGAMING. YOU FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU HAVE NO CLAIM, RIGHT, TITLE, OWNERSHIP, OR OTHER PROPRIETARY INTEREST IN THE ADDITIONAL FEATURES (AS DEFINED BELOW) THAT YOU UNLOCK OR ACCUMULATE, REGARDLESS OF ANY CONSIDERATION OFFERED OR PAID IN EXCHANGE FOR SUCH ADDITIONAL FEATURES.FURTHERMORE, WARGAMING SHALL NOT BE LIABLE IN ANY MANNER FOR THE DESTRUCTION, DELETION, MODIFICATION, IMPAIRMENT, HACKING, OR ANY OTHER DAMAGE OR LOSS OF ANY KIND CAUSED TO THE GAME CONTENT OR ADDITIONAL FEATURES, INCLUDING THE DELETION OF GAME CONTENT OR ADDITIONAL FEATURES UPON THE TERMINATION OR EXPIRATION OF YOUR ACCOUNT.

The Hell is wrong with this company?!

Let me make a prediction; Because the Special matchmaking premiums are getting 'buffed' they apply these stupid new rules to actually F*ck us as customers. 

We all know that WG NA Is a bit different, maybe WG EU is thinking totally different but we still need to watch out! 

 

Their EULA: http://legal.na.warg...-agreement-new/



dolnodon #2 Posted 02 June 2018 - 01:53 PM

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this is really messed up... sounds like "give us all your money, and get lost!"

i guess as every company, they will push the limits on how they accumulate the most money for least amount of effort.

 

question for WG (NA or EU or whoever), when people give you money, what do they actually get? from this legal gibberish it seems the customer gets nothing, no value, no rights.

 

I'm no lawyer, however I'm pretty sure there must be some law saying you need to get some appropriate value for your money.



Dorander #3 Posted 02 June 2018 - 02:00 PM

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It's entirely legal in NA, not legal in Europe. Relevant case law:

 

http://curia.europa....4564&doclang=EN

https://caselaw.find...it/1537762.html

 

As you can read the USA and EU have complete opposite interpretations of how the right to first sale exhaustion applies when it comes to software licenses.



PervyPastryPuffer #4 Posted 02 June 2018 - 02:23 PM

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I guess this just means you can't sell your account, because it's not your property, it's WG's. But isn't that how it always was? I thought we all knew this already?

Homer_J #5 Posted 02 June 2018 - 02:26 PM

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Is this what Ectar's tweet was about?

 

https://twitter.com/...575101785722880



Dorander #6 Posted 02 June 2018 - 02:39 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 02 June 2018 - 01:26 PM, said:

Is this what Ectar's tweet was about?

 

https://twitter.com/...575101785722880

 

Possibly. These boldfaced changes mostly seem to be related to Fansite Content so they might've had some case about that. The unbolded "You don't own it" bit of 5.4 has always been there AFAIK. It's easy to forget that the citizens of the USA don't enjoy the customer rights EU citizens enjoy.

Squale #7 Posted 02 June 2018 - 02:47 PM

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How is this news ?

 

If WG decided to close their servers tomorrow, you'd be left with nothing, no matter how much money you've spent.



RamRaid90 #8 Posted 02 June 2018 - 02:51 PM

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View PostDorander, on 02 June 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

It's entirely legal in NA, not legal in Europe. Relevant case law:

 

http://curia.europa....4564&doclang=EN

https://caselaw.find...it/1537762.html

 

As you can read the USA and EU have complete opposite interpretations of how the right to first sale exhaustion applies when it comes to software licenses.

 

All irrelevent really. You will never own anything n your account, as its intellectual property of Wargaming.

Dorander #9 Posted 02 June 2018 - 02:59 PM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 02 June 2018 - 01:51 PM, said:

 

All irrelevent really. You will never own anything n your account, as its intellectual property of Wargaming.

 

There's a difference between intellectual property and property. I can own something I purchased (property), without also owning the rights to its designs and patents (intellectual property), giving me the full right to use the property as I see fit but not allowing me to copy/reproduce it for my own benefit (financial or otherwise).

unhappy_bunny #10 Posted 02 June 2018 - 04:02 PM

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View PostDorander, on 02 June 2018 - 02:59 PM, said:

 

There's a difference between intellectual property and property. I can own something I purchased (property), without also owning the rights to its designs and patents (intellectual property), giving me the full right to use the property as I see fit but not allowing me to copy/reproduce it for my own benefit (financial or otherwise).

 

Yes, you own a license issued by WG. That license is revokable at any time and for any reason. WG can revoke your license and what do you have left? you dont buy a premium tank, you buy a license to play it. You cannot physically hold that tank, you cannot take it home with you, you cannot play with it outside of WoT. 

Fansites, although slightly different, in that they can use content outside of the game, are still subject to WG giving permission to use that content. If, for any reason, that permission is withdrawn,the fansite would still have the content on their computers, but to continue to use it would be in breech of their contract with WG.



Dorander #11 Posted 02 June 2018 - 04:25 PM

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View Postunhappy_bunny, on 02 June 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

 

Yes, you own a license issued by WG. That license is revokable at any time and for any reason. WG can revoke your license and what do you have left? you dont buy a premium tank, you buy a license to play it. You cannot physically hold that tank, you cannot take it home with you, you cannot play with it outside of WoT. 

Fansites, although slightly different, in that they can use content outside of the game, are still subject to WG giving permission to use that content. If, for any reason, that permission is withdrawn,the fansite would still have the content on their computers, but to continue to use it would be in breech of their contract with WG.

 

You obviously completely ignored the links I posted that prove you completely and utterly wrong. There's a reason WG doesn't just tweak premiums willy-nilly and there's a reason the tweaks they're planning for preferential MM are generating an entirely justified uproar.



Balc0ra #12 Posted 02 June 2018 - 05:47 PM

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View PostDorander, on 02 June 2018 - 04:25 PM, said:

 

You obviously completely ignored the links I posted that prove you completely and utterly wrong. There's a reason WG doesn't just tweak premiums willy-nilly and there's a reason the tweaks they're planning for preferential MM are generating an entirely justified uproar.

 

So it's less on what's legal and what they can do, vs what we rage and have an uproar about? Even the T26E4 nerf was legal... but due to the uproar we had. A full refund was offered a few days before the nerf. And lasted for weeks to give owners time to "try it out" first. 

 

View Post_CrownVictoria_, on 02 June 2018 - 01:44 PM, said:

We all know that WG NA Is a bit different, maybe WG EU is thinking totally different but we still need to watch out! 

 

Well the new EU eula did not have any such info in it did they? As I suspect any change to a premium tank won't be treated differently on NA vs EU regardless. That would def cause an uproar. Then again even the old eula more or less said you never did own anything you did buy in terms of digital products. As to cover their rights if WOT shut down on short notice. As was pointed out in the countless KV-5 nerf topics. iirc they never did mention that the account as a whole was under their ownership. 



Trostani #13 Posted 02 June 2018 - 06:03 PM

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View PostDorander, on 02 June 2018 - 03:25 PM, said:

 

You obviously completely ignored the links I posted that prove you completely and utterly wrong. There's a reason WG doesn't just tweak premiums willy-nilly and there's a reason the tweaks they're planning for preferential MM are generating an entirely justified uproar.

 

Posted links must be ignored because they are usless in this case - licenses for computer programs have separate regulations from licenses for digital content and intelectual property.

Edited by Trostani, 02 June 2018 - 06:03 PM.


HundeWurst #14 Posted 02 June 2018 - 06:44 PM

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I dont know about MURICAN law but one thing I know for sure. They can write pretty much whatever they like in the TOS or EULA or AGB in Germany, but if a part is in conflict with any law the paragraph instantly becomes meaningless, and if nothing else is agreed on will be replaced by a standard law based paragraph if needed.

 

So please dont make an elephant out of a fly.

 

Im no lawyer, neither do I pretend to be one but whats up with all these self proclaimed law experts?



Lord_Barbarozza #15 Posted 02 June 2018 - 06:47 PM

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If they could they would change the laws of the world in their favor.

 

You put your money in a bank, if the bank loses your money they have no obligation to pay you back the full amount they have lost from your savings.

If WG messes up something or makes a dirty move like pref MM tanks no one can sue them or demand refund.

 

But, people are clever enough to waste hundreds of Auros, Ponds and Dullers cash money on this game, feeding the beast.



VarzA #16 Posted 02 June 2018 - 06:47 PM

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View Post_CrownVictoria_, on 02 June 2018 - 01:44 PM, said:

Wargaming NA will apply some nice additions to their EULA. Making all your premium tanks belong to Wargaming and giving you actually zero rights to YOUR account...

5.4 Ownership of Your Account. NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY HEREIN, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU SHALL HAVE NO OWNERSHIP OR OTHER PROPERTY INTEREST IN YOUR ACCOUNT, AND THAT ALL RIGHTS IN AND TO YOUR ACCOUNT ARE AND SHALL FOREVER BE OWNED BY AND INURE TO THE BENEFIT OF WARGAMING. YOU FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU HAVE NO CLAIM, RIGHT, TITLE, OWNERSHIP, OR OTHER PROPRIETARY INTEREST IN THE ADDITIONAL FEATURES (AS DEFINED BELOW) THAT YOU UNLOCK OR ACCUMULATE, REGARDLESS OF ANY CONSIDERATION OFFERED OR PAID IN EXCHANGE FOR SUCH ADDITIONAL FEATURES.FURTHERMORE, WARGAMING SHALL NOT BE LIABLE IN ANY MANNER FOR THE DESTRUCTION, DELETION, MODIFICATION, IMPAIRMENT, HACKING, OR ANY OTHER DAMAGE OR LOSS OF ANY KIND CAUSED TO THE GAME CONTENT OR ADDITIONAL FEATURES, INCLUDING THE DELETION OF GAME CONTENT OR ADDITIONAL FEATURES UPON THE TERMINATION OR EXPIRATION OF YOUR ACCOUNT.

The Hell is wrong with this company?!

Let me make a prediction; Because the Special matchmaking premiums are getting 'buffed' they apply these stupid new rules to actually F*ck us as customers. 

We all know that WG NA Is a bit different, maybe WG EU is thinking totally different but we still need to watch out! 

 

Their EULA: http://legal.na.warg...-agreement-new/

 

I think they are setting the ground for the eventual death of the NA cluster.

 

I doubt they are making any money there, and some ppl are about to ask for a server to exist and be populated just because they have stuff.



Dorander #17 Posted 02 June 2018 - 06:49 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 02 June 2018 - 04:47 PM, said:

 

So it's less on what's legal and what they can do, vs what we rage and have an uproar about? Even the T26E4 nerf was legal... but due to the uproar we had. A full refund was offered a few days before the nerf. And lasted for weeks to give owners time to "try it out" first. 

 

 

Any legal system works by people contesting an action taken by either party. If nobody contests the action taken, nothing will happen, because these are civil cases rather than criminal ones (where you can call the police to investigate the matter). A playerbase uproar indicates some unity of thought in the disagreement the players have with the developer, which frequently is the result of a legal basis, and makes the possibility that somebody's actually calling a lawyer a more probable scenario. It's just risk assessment.

 

Take a look at some of the things people intensely dislike for example: Matchmaking, and the PMM nerf. The matchmaking system in general is fubar and there's little dissent from what I can see on the forums here about that, but it's WG's choice to create it that way so nobody's silly enough to think they can sue WG over it. However change the characteristics of a purchased product and suddenly people go "Wait a second, they can't do that, we have rights... grab your torches and pitchforks!"

 

View PostTrostani, on 02 June 2018 - 05:03 PM, said:

 

Posted links must be ignored because they are usless in this case - licenses for computer programs have separate regulations from licenses for digital content and intelectual property.

 

Got any actual evidence for that? 

VarzA #18 Posted 02 June 2018 - 06:49 PM

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View PostHundeWurst, on 02 June 2018 - 06:44 PM, said:

I dont know about MURICAN law but one thing I know for sure. They can write pretty much whatever they like in the TOS or EULA or AGB in Germany, but if a part is in conflict with any law the paragraph instantly becomes meaningless, and if nothing else is agreed on will be replaced by a standard law based paragraph if needed.

 

So please dont make an elephant out of a fly.

 

Im no lawyer, neither do I pretend to be one but whats up with all these self proclaimed law experts?

 

EU is different, especially after the brits leave, as it will mostly be roman law (at it's base) while the US is commonwealth law.

VarzA #19 Posted 02 June 2018 - 06:50 PM

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View PostTankyouverymuch2, on 02 June 2018 - 02:23 PM, said:

I guess this just means you can't sell your account, because it's not your property, it's WG's. But isn't that how it always was? I thought we all knew this already?

 

Some ppl interpret that you can sell access to your account and access to your hard work on that account. :)

Trostani #20 Posted 02 June 2018 - 07:03 PM

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View PostDorander, on 02 June 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

Got any actual evidence for that? 

I posted EU directive numbers in topic about MM, you can find it there, now I'm writin from phone and it's hard to copy it here.






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