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Buff the British Heavies! (Tier7 and Below)


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Search_Warrant #1 Posted 06 June 2018 - 12:17 PM

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Some of the worst tanks i have ever played, i played them YEARS ago and havent touched them since. why bother when you play russian mediums with better guns at the same tier as you, with probably MORE armor (looking at you 85M)

 

The combination of terrible mobility, flat useless armor with poor gundep and some of the WORST guns possible you could fit on a heavy tank.

 

Compare ANY british heavy to the russian counterpart or even some medium tanks and they are outgunned/armored/no mobility and for what? whats the "british thing?" being useless? free exp for anything shooting at you? Churchill3 gets PREFF while being better than the british Churchill1.

 

IS vs Black prince? 122mm with 390 alpha and MORE pen? MORE DPM! and WORSE turret bloom! the HP buff the Black prince has is there just to feed the enemy more hitpoints. armor doesent do anything with it being flat 152mm, 20kmh top speed so u cant run away, compared to 32 the IS gets.

 

Just look at tanksgg and see yourself how worthless these free exp boxes on tracks are comapred to russian tanks. they have been left in the dirt to rot away for far too long and its disgusting, WG dident even care enough to give them a tier 8 premium heavy despite them being in the game with a full heavy tree for YEARS.

 

Fix them sh**boxes WG, i want to have a line that i can actually grind before the line grinds my soul to dust.

 

PS: Death to 17 and 20 pounders.


Edited by Search_Warrant, 06 June 2018 - 12:19 PM.


Graeme0 #2 Posted 06 June 2018 - 01:29 PM

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There are plenty of other tanks you can play.

 

Choose the ones you like and leave the others alone.  Simple



Balc0ra #3 Posted 06 June 2018 - 01:31 PM

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BP needs a 20 pdr with more dpm and a bit more top speed. Churchill VII only needs a mobility and speed buff. As in general, it's still fine IMO after they fixed all the armor holes in it. Churchill VII has done many a HT missions for me. Inc two HT-12's. 

 

And most seems to think the Churchill I is fine. I personally have not played it since it's initial arrival. But comparing the Churchill III vs I. Sure the side panels on the III has 10mm more armor iirc, and the lower plate is way more effective. But no one aims there any way for that to matter. It also has pref mm and almost 300 more base dpm. But it's a 6 pdr gun with 0.42 dispersion vs a 75mm with almost 2x the alpha and more pen. If you want to pull that card, you might as well compare it to the Excelsior while you are at it. 



xx984 #4 Posted 06 June 2018 - 01:52 PM

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View PostGraeme0, on 06 June 2018 - 12:29 PM, said:

There are plenty of other tanks you can play.

 

Choose the ones you like and leave the others alone.  Simple

 

Not plenty of others to play if you want tanks like the Conq and Super Conq..

 

As for the OP, I agree with most points, For a change ;)



Aimless #5 Posted 06 June 2018 - 01:58 PM

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I'm totally supporting the OP with his demands. Even though I don't agree with him concerning the armor. Gun depression and faster aim times wouldn't solve the problem that you're every arty's special darling but you'd at least have a chance to hit something without having to stop moving. 20kph shouldn't count as movement anyway.

The Churchill I however isn't worse than the Church III, not at all. From all Churchills it's the most playable one. And if we're already at it, the Excelsior would also need something to excel.

 

"You can play plenty other tanks" is an argument beyond lame. Do you want to see only soviet tanks and the ones from some new branch on the battlefields?



Dava_117 #6 Posted 06 June 2018 - 02:08 PM

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Any HT in game is probably better, not just soviet ones. 

But you can't do much to change them. They were designed to be slow, being infantry tanks, and I don't know if they actually had been designed to fight other tanks or just to help infantry push...



Aimless #7 Posted 06 June 2018 - 02:12 PM

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So we have historical reasons here, mhm, uhuh... :sceptic:

CircleOfSorrow #8 Posted 06 June 2018 - 02:13 PM

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It is because whole sections of tech trees are populated with weak rubbish like the Churchills that I think WG as a developer is a joke.  What sense does it make to add new vehicles and entire lines when so many existing vehicles need attention?  Cleaning up the shite balance in this game would improve potential enjoyment considerably.

FluffyRedFox #9 Posted 06 June 2018 - 02:23 PM

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Introduce infantry class to give the churchills a purpose :trollface:

Dava_117 #10 Posted 06 June 2018 - 02:41 PM

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View PostFluffyRedFox, on 06 June 2018 - 02:23 PM, said:

Introduce infantry class to give the churchills a purpose :trollface:

 

And not just to churchills. Also all that useless MG in front of tanks!

I can inagine a LoL like mode with infantry going on foot from one side of Abbey to the other with 5 tanks defending them. 

:D


Edited by Dava_117, 06 June 2018 - 02:42 PM.


Stalpanter #11 Posted 06 June 2018 - 02:47 PM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 06 June 2018 - 12:17 PM, said:

Compare ANY british heavy to the russian counterpart

 

I think thats what is the problem.

suvicze #12 Posted 06 June 2018 - 03:12 PM

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They definitely need some attention. It has been ages since I played these but even back in the day churchills werent anything special.

Churchill I seems pretty workable still. Maybe a bit improved turret traverse dispersion and dpm, the gun otherwise is pretty good, I mean it is T5 and you wont be sitting on it for very long so there isnt really that much need to make it really good.

Churchill VII, it used the be the biggest pile of crapI ever played at that time but now with the more relible armor it might actually be somewhat decent. Just give it 17pdr, keep the dpm and increase the top speed to 25 with a bit more power to weight (around 10) and it will be fine.

BP used to be pretty decent, nothing special but as top tier it could own everyone with good player behind it, now with all the overarmored tanks in the game it really went down a lot. 20pdr with 2100dpm, 0.12 turret traverse instead of 0.19, 25km/h top speed and +20/30mm of armor across the front (turret stays the same) and it will be good.



Search_Warrant #13 Posted 06 June 2018 - 04:58 PM

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View PostCircleOfSorrow, on 06 June 2018 - 01:13 PM, said:

It is because whole sections of tech trees are populated with weak rubbish like the Churchills that I think WG as a developer is a joke. What sense does it make to add new vehicles and entire lines when so many existing vehicles need attention? Cleaning up the shite balance in this game would improve potential enjoyment considerably.

 

Indeed. they just spam more tanks without thinking about all the old ones they left to rot in there shadows. churchills was not meant for tank warfare, they was infantry support.why the hell do we have such crap in game?

ares354 #14 Posted 06 June 2018 - 05:27 PM

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Hulldown Black Prince will eat IS every day. Best tier 7 turret, T29 fallow. 

No WG problem, UK did same thing as Germans and build box tanks with flat armor. Tiger 1 wont get armor buff coz of it, I see no reason to buff flat armor of UK tanks. 

One thing WG should do if to rework dmg base on gun caliber. It shell what do most damage, and 17 pounder gun was quite powerfull. Not like 122, but one shoot was possibble

Dmg done by 17 pounder or 75 mm gun are just joke. DMG should be based on what shell can do. As for tier 5 and 6 UK HT, maybe buff soft stats, but still that no enough. 

Rework gun damage, that might help a lot of tanks, UK mostly. 

Edited by ares354, 06 June 2018 - 07:45 PM.


SiliconSidewinder #15 Posted 06 June 2018 - 05:48 PM

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I like my excelsior and my Churchills, the only one that I found definetly lackluster was the Black Prince.

a bit more alpha at the same firerate should fix that though.



Nazgarth #16 Posted 06 June 2018 - 05:50 PM

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Black Prince

Buff hull and turret roof armour, its 19mm right now, a joke. In world of derp guns expect to take 400+ damage hits from 152mm derps all the time, taking 200+ damage from tiny calibre HE shells from Meds and Bert. Then you have the big arty that take a 3rd of you health if they land within 10m of you.

Buff 20mm armour plates for roof of track sponsons as it is now you cannot rely on sidescrape because of these areas.

Penetration, aim time , and DpM buffs. Right now crap penetration, have to load premium to be able to deal with anything that has the slightest hint of armour. Currently 2.2 second aim time, with crap bloom on turret traverse for 150 average damage at tier 7, sure, well balanced. Lower DpM than tanks with 390 alpha at same tier, WG retardation.

Buff crew HP. anyone else playing this have crew knocked out constantly? Often 2 or 3 crew dead from 1 HE hit. My record is 6 deaths in one game; was expecting to lose the tank to crew loss, but the realised has craparmour and couldn't bounce anything so I ran out of HP instead.
 

With these buffs the tank might be a mediocre tier 7 heavy.


Edited by Nazgarth, 06 June 2018 - 05:56 PM.


suvicze #17 Posted 06 June 2018 - 05:51 PM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 06 June 2018 - 04:58 PM, said:

 

Indeed. they just spam more tanks without thinking about all the old ones they left to rot in there shadows. churchills was not meant for tank warfare, they was infantry support.why the hell do we have such crap in game?

 

They should do what blizzard does with heroes of the storm these days and just slow down introduction of new stuff considerably and focus on polishing the existing stuff which is in horrible state. Too bad they pretty much do the opposite.

Also I am perfectly fine with having primarily infantry support tanks in tank vs tank game as long as they adjust them properly.

Blackprince would be perfectly fine if it fought tanks like pz4, panther or tiger, against which the 17pdr was very effective but unfortunately not only is the performace of various guns in the game pretty wonky compared to RL, the tank also has to face various post war tanks and who knows what else against which the gun was never really ment to perform :/



Flid_Merchant #18 Posted 06 June 2018 - 06:33 PM

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Remove the BP, and integrate it as upgrades in the Churchill VII tree. Then move all the above tanks down a tier with rebalancing and add the Chieftain at T10

DeadLecter #19 Posted 06 June 2018 - 06:57 PM

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Churchill I and VII arent bad they are actually good. I play VII only once a day and cant say anything bad about it specially since I already had most of the stuff researched from Med line it makes a joy to play. Cant talk about BP but It doesnt seem that bad either but cant talk from experience since I havent played it

Argedeava #20 Posted 06 June 2018 - 07:08 PM

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Glad to see so many completly agreeying with the balls-licking-boy.

It fits iconically the acual state of the game.






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