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HE at mid tiers ...


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VarzA #1 Posted 06 June 2018 - 08:01 PM

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I've started the grind towards the ST-I/IS-4 and atm at t6, the T-150 ....

 

I have to say that until i started playing a heavy tank, that doesn't really have mobility, at mid-tiers, i never knew how bad it was.

I am sorry if i laughed off at you guys who went in the front, and got pecked to death by arty, or killed by lights/meds because you 'overextended' when in reality your meds/lights simply camped base like cowards.

 

I have no words to describe how bad playing at mid-tiers is right now, every game is 2+ arty, you see them have great games, and when you check their stats, they are 1-2k battle ppl with 45-48% winrates .... no matter what you do, you get r*ped by ppl you don't even see.

 

I am no strager to arty, at high tiers, and not even at mid-tiers, as ai play meds there .... but as heavies and recently, after 1.0, this is a new experience for me ... wow.

 



Suurpolskija #2 Posted 06 June 2018 - 08:15 PM

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Wham bam! Thank you, maam!

 

I have the same experience. It's crazy down there!



etody77 #3 Posted 06 June 2018 - 08:16 PM

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What about HE used on heavy tanks?

What about old AP used on arty?



VarzA #4 Posted 06 June 2018 - 08:19 PM

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I did not play these kind of heavies back then, Tiger H was my heaviest tank and that was a support tank.

 

And even then i don't remember seeing this much arty ....

 

I don't know if it's because of the 1.0 patch that brought lots of ppl back who go by default to arty, or because mid tier arty is best for credit making .... but the coupling of broken arty at mid-tiers with the influx of arty player is .... wow.

 

And then i think ... you start off the game as a new guy, and you deal with the insane dpm and sealclubbing at t1-4, t5-7 you get the arty .... t8 you end up cannon fodder for the t9-10's .... where does the strength to move up the tiers come from, for those ppl who are f2p, what motivates them ?


Edited by VarzA, 06 June 2018 - 08:25 PM.


Balc0ra #5 Posted 06 June 2018 - 08:55 PM

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I'm enjoying mid tier more so then the super idicotic tier 9 grinds atm that is full of lemmings and campers. Tho... arty tier for tier is more broken on mid then higher up. M44 being one of them.  

VarzA #6 Posted 06 June 2018 - 09:01 PM

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I really hope it will get better when i have the ST-I. :P

axell92108 #7 Posted 06 June 2018 - 09:27 PM

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M44 is idiotically OP. Quite a few of these inbred hicks also use illegal arty mods.

ApocalypseSquad #8 Posted 06 June 2018 - 09:38 PM

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When playing mid tier meds It can be quite hard to support your heavies.  I always see the heavies camped behind the arty on the red line.

TiMeK1ll3r #9 Posted 06 June 2018 - 10:04 PM

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I have the IS-4 from quite a while, and i can tell you this: don't get it.

You look at it and you think it's great, i mean, it's the king of sidescrape, but everything else about it is bad compared to the new tanks introduced after it.

 

I mean, yeah sometimes you go around unseen by arty because someone is a MAUS, E100 or TYPE 5 is around and they just focus on him, but you are kinda slow too, and the top of your hull is weak so arty gets like 5-600 dmg every shot if you are lucky.

 

You think HE at mid tier is bad? Boy you need to think again, it's madness at top tiers.

 

If you really want thte IS-4 you can do this: get to the ST-1, grind to the IS-4, research it and do not buy it.

Leave it there until WG buffs the IS-4 to make it competitive again.

It will probably take a year or more, since they have to add new OP tanks that completely destroy the old ones is seconds, but give it time and they will probably do something, because they will (well it's just a prediction but when a tank is less and less played and noone research it anymore because they go to the OP line, that's when they buff that line and make the old one better again, so that you need to research that one too since it gets better than the one you just researched)

 

Ok well, we are talking about wg, arty will never go away so you might as well get used to getting r4ped every time you play an heavy tank



VarzA #10 Posted 06 June 2018 - 10:33 PM

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View PostTiMeK1ll3r, on 06 June 2018 - 10:04 PM, said:

I have the IS-4 from quite a while, and i can tell you this: don't get it.

You look at it and you think it's great, i mean, it's the king of sidescrape, but everything else about it is bad compared to the new tanks introduced after it.

 

I mean, yeah sometimes you go around unseen by arty because someone is a MAUS, E100 or TYPE 5 is around and they just focus on him, but you are kinda slow too, and the top of your hull is weak so arty gets like 5-600 dmg every shot if you are lucky.

 

You think HE at mid tier is bad? Boy you need to think again, it's madness at top tiers.

 

If you really want thte IS-4 you can do this: get to the ST-1, grind to the IS-4, research it and do not buy it.

Leave it there until WG buffs the IS-4 to make it competitive again.

It will probably take a year or more, since they have to add new OP tanks that completely destroy the old ones is seconds, but give it time and they will probably do something, because they will (well it's just a prediction but when a tank is less and less played and noone research it anymore because they go to the OP line, that's when they buff that line and make the old one better again, so that you need to research that one too since it gets better than the one you just researched)

 

Ok well, we are talking about wg, arty will never go away so you might as well get used to getting r4ped every time you play an heavy tank

 

That's actually the plan, i like the ST-I.

 

I saw a ton of replays and it's on my list of heavies for missions and such, i love that combination of turret armor and gun depression.

I will buy the IS-4 because they will remove it from the tech tree, and i have no t10 reward tank. :)

 

I can handle arty at high tiers, i usually play mobile stuff, and the ST-I has enough mobility to it.

 

What shocked me though is the ratio of HE shell damage (by arty) to average HP at those tiers, combined with the fact that there is genuinely more arty at mid tiers.

Add to this the fact that arty at mid-tiers fires faster, and it's .... it's a freaking disaster.

I simply don't understand what kind of (black) magic keeps some of these heavy tank players who deal with it constantly playing.



Dava_117 #11 Posted 06 June 2018 - 11:35 PM

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T-150 is a really good HT on his tier, arguably the best. Comparable mobility to KV-85, but with better armour, -7° of gun depression instead of -2.5° and a really powerfull gun. Heck, it still dominant even on tier 7 and tier 8 don't have to understomate it.

Love it! 

But I know several player that didn't cope well with it too... so I can understand that may not satisfy everyone taste.



etody77 #12 Posted 07 June 2018 - 01:00 AM

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View PostDava_117, on 06 June 2018 - 11:35 PM, said:

T-150 is a really good HT on his tier, arguably the best. Comparable mobility to KV-85, but with better armour, -7° of gun depression instead of -2.5° and a really powerfull gun. Heck, it still dominant even on tier 7 and tier 8 don't have to understomate it.

Love it! 

But I know several player that didn't cope well with it too... so I can understand that may not satisfy everyone taste.

 

It's slower and many players still remember the old tier 6 KV-1S

axell92108 #13 Posted 07 June 2018 - 01:11 AM

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View PostDava_117, on 06 June 2018 - 10:35 PM, said:

T-150 is a really good HT on his tier, arguably the best. Comparable mobility to KV-85, but with better armour, -7° of gun depression instead of -2.5° and a really powerfull gun. Heck, it still dominant even on tier 7 and tier 8 don't have to understomate it.

Love it! 

But I know several player that didn't cope well with it too... so I can understand that may not satisfy everyone taste.

 

KV-85 is better, T-150's superior armor is useless because:

1) it gets terrible gun handling

2) the turret is weak

3) tier 6 statpadders will shoot gold anyway

4) tier 7s and 8s will butter your hull

5) kv-2s and o-i's don't care about your armor either



VarzA #14 Posted 07 June 2018 - 02:58 AM

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View PostDava_117, on 06 June 2018 - 11:35 PM, said:

T-150 is a really good HT on his tier, arguably the best. Comparable mobility to KV-85, but with better armour, -7° of gun depression instead of -2.5° and a really powerfull gun. Heck, it still dominant even on tier 7 and tier 8 don't have to understomate it.

Love it! 

But I know several player that didn't cope well with it too... so I can understand that may not satisfy everyone taste.

 

i like it, especially with the top engine, but :

1 - tons of arty .... seriously, it's very rare to get a no-arty game.

2 - tons of bottom tier, the armor is only worth something if you get to face t6's, and even at t6, there are a lot of KV2's, KV2-R's and O-I's, so your sidescraping is not really worth anything. Armor would work also vs t7's, but again ... so much HE, and there is a huuuuge difference in HP between t6 and t7.

 

Overall i am not enjoying the tank, but that is more of a function of the toxicity that WG has let fester into mid-tiers through the various gameplay changes over the years.


Edited by VarzA, 07 June 2018 - 03:00 AM.


Gremlin182 #15 Posted 07 June 2018 - 03:38 AM

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I know it doesn't help but its a team failure.

When you get in a battle and there are say 2 SPGs per side they can do nothing unless they are fed information the team that does it best wins.

A spotted TD usually has it worse than a heavy given lower armour values especially sides.

Very frustrating when you just get out spotted all through the game not just because of arty but sneaky TDs too being pecked to death and unable to do anything.

 

Does it get better probably yes players as a whole get better you are more likely to have better view range yourself but you will still have those games.



RamRaid90 #16 Posted 07 June 2018 - 04:58 AM

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View Postaxell92108, on 06 June 2018 - 08:27 PM, said:

M44 is idiotically OP. Quite a few of these inbred hicks also use illegal arty mods.

 

You mean like homing missiles?



_Anarchistic_ #17 Posted 07 June 2018 - 05:24 AM

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View PostVarzA, on 06 June 2018 - 09:01 PM, said:

I really hope it will get better when i have the ST-I. :P

 

oh yeh, it will !!

 



undutchable80 #18 Posted 07 June 2018 - 08:06 AM

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As crazily chaotic mid-tier gameplay is, at least you can pen stuff more so than as T8 being bottom tier.

Dava_117 #19 Posted 07 June 2018 - 10:11 AM

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View PostVarzA, on 07 June 2018 - 02:58 AM, said:

 

i like it, especially with the top engine, but :

1 - tons of arty .... seriously, it's very rare to get a no-arty game.

2 - tons of bottom tier, the armor is only worth something if you get to face t6's, and even at t6, there are a lot of KV2's, KV2-R's and O-I's, so your sidescraping is not really worth anything. Armor would work also vs t7's, but again ... so much HE, and there is a huuuuge difference in HP between t6 and t7.

 

Overall i am not enjoying the tank, but that is more of a function of the toxicity that WG has let fester into mid-tiers through the various gameplay changes over the years.

 

Well, HE are indeed a general problem. I allways try to evade them or trade 2 shot for one. Being aggressive is important on this tank. Don't also be affraid of tier 7: they got more HP but most of them has a gun comparable to your. 

 

Also try to learn angling well on T-150. KV-3 have the same side armour but see tier 9, so it's quite important for your survival. 

 

View Postaxell92108, on 07 June 2018 - 01:11 AM, said:

 

KV-85 is better, T-150's superior armor is useless because:

1) it gets terrible gun handling

2) the turret is weak

3) tier 6 statpadders will shoot gold anyway

4) tier 7s and 8s will butter your hull

5) kv-2s and o-i's don't care about your armor either

 

You have no clue on how to use armour, mate.

It may have worst gun handling, but you don't shoot while  moving excep at very close range, where gun handling is irrilevant. Also you're forgetting about the -2.5° of gun depression of KV-85, that kill the tank.

T-150 turret is also stronger on the front (up to 200mm on the quite big mantlet overlap zone) and on side comapred to KV-85 and can be effectively angled.

Statpadder shooting gold and tier 7-8 don't pen you if you angle well in sidescrape. Or are you tinking to charge a top tier in the open?

 

Also armour is still important against derp. Not only it reduce damage, but prevent HE from penning you. KV-2 need an high roll in pen to pen T-150 side on while will pen almost any shot on the 60mm side of a KV-85.



axell92108 #20 Posted 07 June 2018 - 12:10 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 07 June 2018 - 09:11 AM, said:

 

Well, HE are indeed a general problem. I allways try to evade them or trade 2 shot for one. Being aggressive is important on this tank. Don't also be affraid of tier 7: they got more HP but most of them has a gun comparable to your. 

 

Also try to learn angling well on T-150. KV-3 have the same side armour but see tier 9, so it's quite important for your survival. 

 

 

You have no clue on how to use armour, mate.

It may have worst gun handling, but you don't shoot while  moving excep at very close range, where gun handling is irrilevant. Also you're forgetting about the -2.5° of gun depression of KV-85, that kill the tank.

T-150 turret is also stronger on the front (up to 200mm on the quite big mantlet overlap zone) and on side comapred to KV-85 and can be effectively angled.

Statpadder shooting gold and tier 7-8 don't pen you if you angle well in sidescrape. Or are you tinking to charge a top tier in the open?

 

Also armour is still important against derp. Not only it reduce damage, but prevent HE from penning you. KV-2 need an high roll in pen to pen T-150 side on while will pen almost any shot on the 60mm side of a KV-85.

 

Lf7U7VI.jpg

Clearly the KV-85 fits the meta better. I can see T-150 being better......in 2015.






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