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How do I carry a battle like that?


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Pattonizer #1 Posted 07 June 2018 - 11:24 PM

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http://wotreplays.eu...cf64622e629e4fc

It is clear, it was lost because of me.

I was intentionally avoiding all three of the tier 10 enemies, cause they are the definitive counter-tanks against the AMX 50B. Especially on this map. Buahh. The Death Star is the least hard nut to crack, but considering corridor fights, it's still risky as hell.

 

That's why I was waiting for some dummy rush from the middle initially, and I got it as intended, really stupid push from their scouts and meds. Then clear the middle as fast as possible, go for arty, aaaand it's done. Running into the Strv was just stupid, maybe getting back to the middle would be a better choice, but still not any chance against all three tier 10.

I'm truly thinking in a Groundhog Day scenario; trying this battle over and over, to see what would have been the good choice to win. I did not continue to push on my flank, as our Progetto asked for help, so being a half-pussy I chose that, however I figured he is going to be such a dummy boy to end up dead, just before I arrive. Meh. 

So I was clearing up the easy targets, and that is where the battle went away. Wasting too much time, by the time I get back to the E-100 it's already late. On the other hand, the push by our T10 and WZ-132A was also plainly stupid, and the camping plan in our base was also a bit over 'over engineered'.

The thing is I really hate corridor fights, and these maps are just making me counter-intuitive about the best possible next step.

I think helping the E-100 would have been the best choice, pushing button 2 for more skills and eliminating those disgusting super heavies in some way. It's hard to be a supporter tank, when you have no real angle to support; sadly that position is a very risky ground to hold in an AMX50 B, and I'm sure their damn arty was just aiming there for me. Arty likes my sexy blue bubble butt. :)

What would you have done in my place?
 


Edited by Pattonizer, 07 June 2018 - 11:34 PM.


Flavortown #2 Posted 07 June 2018 - 11:43 PM

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What i would have done is, go to the next game and not post in the forums about it

Pattonizer #3 Posted 07 June 2018 - 11:50 PM

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View PostFlavortown, on 07 June 2018 - 10:43 PM, said:

What i would have done is, go to the next game and not post in the forums about it

 

Is that your life in your signature? :) 

Baldrickk #4 Posted 08 June 2018 - 12:02 AM

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Writing notes as I watch:

 

14:00 I'd personally have pushed up and tried to ambush the first vehicle on the 2 line - it's very, very rare that players rush through the abbey and out into the open above tier 6 games, so your initial position has almost no impact on the early game most of the time.

13:40  Of course I almost instantly get proved wrong...

13:20 ...twice

13:00  the enemies are in cover, the 103 is moving to a flanking position...  Probably best to leave them to handle this themselves now - it's a 3 on 3 fight on the 2 line, you could be helping there instead of waiting for a tier 8 to come out from behind a rock.

12:00 now 4v3 in the enemy's favour on the 2 line, and they are pushing us back.  The TDs should be able to hold off the Progettos.  If they can't, then it's still better to halt the advance on the 2 line first. As a tier X you really need to be projecting your power - so far you've shot two tier 8s a total of 3 times, 3 minutes into the game.

11:34 we lost a tank on the 2 line, 4v2 now, you're trying to hunt a 60hp tier 8, still haven't shot again.

11:27 you take him out, but take a shot in the process.  Most of the time this wouldn't be a bad trade, but the TDs are still there covering that area.  If you had not pushed on him (and been elsewhere) the Progetto could not have pushed without dying.  That trade would have been better made elsewhere, even though it took a gun out of the game.

11:23 Now 1v3 on the 2 line.  That could have gone better.

11:00 your TDs have almost killed the other Prog, and took out the Conway, showing that they would have been capable enough without you.

10:49 you bounced his shot that time.  good trade, gun out of the game, but it has put you alone, in the middle of the map, where all the action is happening on the flanks...  E100 is down.  They now have the strong position overlooking the cap to just walk into.

10:11 good work against Charioteer, did not realise he was there, but again, it's a tier 8 while their top tiers are beating back your lower tiers faster than you are taking out theirs.

9:30  Can't help but feel going back to defend would have been the better choice here.  You can be a distraction going for their base, but the base on Abbey is pretty easy to defend for the most part.  Anyone camping the base however - they are not part of the game, so attacking them is not actually benefitting your allies at this time. I would probably have tried going under the 2 line to ensure that the spot you used at the start can't be used against you.

9:08 arty kill, useful. But they have pushed into your  cap now.  you could have done something about it if you were on the other end of the map.  I'm thinking best choice here is to cap, using the rock to defend yourself from 2 line.  they may try and out-cap you, but that puts them in the firing line of your defenders.  If they suvive.  If nothing else, if they have to cap-race, it limits their mobility, which will help your defenders as they can actually hide from the cappers while they deal with the FV (or vice versa) without any of them pushing out of the cap to kill them.

08:30 Far too late to be rushing back now.  the 8 line is very restrictive to you.  Might have been better to take the 2 line, hopefully get behind their Maus, or get to the cap defense location for a last stand (which you could then run from after unloading)

7:50 Hulldown 103 with 120mm?  That's a hard sell.  Best to keep the clip full, and pull back, trying to get him out of position for an easier kill.

7:38 yeah, staying in the open for one hit while taking a couple and losing your ammorack?  bad trade.

7:00 ahh - driving at a 183 when you are a one-shot to it?

6:47 well, at least you are in cover from 183 and can clearly see the 103 cupola now.

6:37 much better trade  If you had just pulled back before, you wouldn't be stuck in front of a 183 now though.

6:30 you. drowned. yourself...   Seriously, you can't win a battle you never fight.  You probably wouldn't have won, but at least you could have done more damage.  you should have been able to reload again (rep kit almost back) before the 183 was able to get you.  you could potentially have tracked and killed him.  And then?  Don't know, but I've seen a player get a 6 kill Kolobanovs in a 1hp light tank before, so anything could happen.

At the very least you could maybe have snatched a Topgun and got the rewards associated with medals on a loss.

 

Just my thoughts as the battle played out.  Take what you will from them.


Edited by Baldrickk, 08 June 2018 - 12:50 AM.


geoff99 #5 Posted 08 June 2018 - 12:14 AM

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I agree with Baldrickk

- your role was to support the e100 on 2 line. As soon as I'd seen those heavies coming I'd have been in a support position and loaded with gold. The game was all about the 2 line and 8 line (due to the number of tanks on it, not its strategic value). The tier 8 meds in the middle were pretty irrelevant.

- good tactical play and shooting vs the even and chariot

- after killing the chariot, I'd have thought the best play would be to stay in the abbey to spot and hit them as they crossed from 2 line to cap

- I'm not a fan of self drowning at all. Its bad gamesmanship.

 

I recommend watching some of Zeven's youtube videos. He hammers homes the point about positioning, understanding the game flow and doing effective damage (ie killing the tanks that matter, rather than maximising damage at any cost)



LordMuffin #6 Posted 08 June 2018 - 12:43 AM

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Looks like you got shafted by the MM.

Abbey, and your team have 1 tank suitable (E100), then an Strv 103B (useless on that map) and a 50B, just rather bad on that map.

Enemy got 3 tanks which can do good on the map, Maus, Type 5 and FV215 (183).

So you have a way worse tank draft. How to compensate.

Just support your E100 and help him stay alive. Wherever he goes, you go with him, whenever enemy shoots him, you shoot the enemy back 2-3 times.

 

And of course, load APCR, sicne you are helping the E100, you will meet Maus and Type 5.

Flanking is not an option on that map, since it is impossible.

 

as a top tier, you are have to either make a very swift work of enemy bottom tiers, or take down the enemy top tiers.



divsmo #7 Posted 08 June 2018 - 12:54 AM

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Not killing yourself would probably be a good place to start :P

Emeraldweed #8 Posted 08 June 2018 - 04:47 AM

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Don't push a base when there are 3 top tier tanks pushing your base. If you stayed where progetto was  you would delay them-spot them- do more damage- create crossfire- give a chance for your team mates to get sneaky shots when they are turning their guns towards you. For me that would be an ideal crossfire situation and there was a chance you could win the game

 

Also drowning is for wussies



unrealname #9 Posted 08 June 2018 - 01:21 PM

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i had a game in my E-75 last week on fjords. It was a full tier 9 battle, we lost 15-7 after 5 or 6 minutes, i guess 7,3k dmg wasnt enough. There are games which you just cant carry, even if you do 10k dmg.

vixu #10 Posted 08 June 2018 - 01:32 PM

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drowning yourself.... you'll never know if you could've carried that game or not.

 

ilhilh #11 Posted 08 June 2018 - 01:37 PM

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I was reading the replies, and figuring out whether I should watch the replay and see if there is anything to contribute.  Then I read the first report that you drowned yourself.  So here is my tip.  Don't do that.  Ever.  Grow a pair and keep fighting until your tank is a smouldering wreck.

Edited by ilhilh, 08 June 2018 - 01:37 PM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #12 Posted 08 June 2018 - 02:12 PM

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I think the drowning part was not intentional, that was just a derp. :)

 

As the guys already said, best move is to support the E100 against the Maus and the Type 5. Load gold and punish whoever makes a move against your heavies. Look at their heavies at the start, they were camping and calculating the odds before pushing your end of the corridor. Once you got spotted and the picture became clear to them, they pushed immediately.

 

Hunting tier 8s is also not very useful in this MM. Break the enemy's back by killing their Maus and Type, the tier 8s will be screwed alone. One last thing, you can be sure if the enemy won the 2 line that some brave soul will be pushing your base. So after killing the charioteer, staying in the middle is very powerful just remember not to get trapped there as you'll get pushed at some point.


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 08 June 2018 - 02:13 PM.





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