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WoT no longer fun for casual players?


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Poll: Skill-based matchmaking (235 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Should Wargaming implement skill-based matchmaking (winrate, WN8, etc.)?

  1. Yes (78 votes [33.19%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.19%

  2. No (87 votes [37.02%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.02%

  3. Quit whining you loser (70 votes [29.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.79%

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Drumefy #1 Posted 09 June 2018 - 04:33 PM

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Hi,

 

I've had my WoT account for serveral years now. In the beginning I used to play quite a lot, but as you usually get a life eventually, I started playing less and less.

I've still spend around 100 Euros on the premium content like the Löwe and gold, as I really enjoyed the game few years back.

 

I've had a lot of fun with the ELC AMX, played some great games with it, got three marks of excellence. When I reached around 700 battles in it, it received such a huge nerf that it became useless. I also remember the IS-3 being a really great tank that could take a beating. I don't feel this anymore, as the frontal plates are nowadays penetrated by anything and everything. Zero bounces, except for the turret.

The Frontline mode was something that finally let me enjoy the game again, so it got taken away.

 

Over the six years I only accumulated 8 thousand games. In the same time many of you played five or ten times more than me.

Generally, the player base has improved greatly over the years, there's less and less noobs and much more very experienced players.

In the same time my skill remained pretty much the same, even though I feel like I play much better than several years back.

 

I've grown fond of World of Tanks and I really got to love the game, that's why I keep playing it even after six years.

Unfortunately, because of the overall skill increase, from a pleasant game to play on Saturday afternoons, it became a real torture.

 

Pretty much every single battle I take a huge beating and die. It's not pleasant to get whacked every three minutes by a crowd of enemy tanks.

I've tried watching a lot of good players on youtube, learning something, but I just don't have the time to play 100 games every weekend and master the skills.

 

Isn't it time Wargaming introduced a matchmaker that would take player's rating into consideration? I mean, right now the game is fun for the 5% of best players. Pretty much everyone else just gets a regular beating. Not to mention the amazing new matchmaker, thanks to which you're almost NEVER top tier when playing T5 and almost NEVER top tier when playing T8.

How could this game become so hopelessly unpleasant to play?

 

Maybe if filthy casuals like myself got to play with other casuals, they would enjoy the game much more than when they get devastated by a bunch of kids that play the game 8 hours a day?

Also, the unicums would have an actual challenge playing against each other, instead of just picking off the unexperienced folks like rabbits.

I was considering buying another premium tank to step up the game, but I'm never going to do that since the game is a painful hopeless grind, not a fun adventure to have on a free weekend.

 

Am I the only one who feels like that?

 

P.S.: Please don't write things like "learn to play". I don't have the time to become a unicum. I still want to play casually...


Edited by Drumefy, 09 June 2018 - 04:35 PM.


panter22 #2 Posted 09 June 2018 - 04:39 PM

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Send a lot off money to WG and you will start winning and you wont be a casual player no more :great:

XxKuzkina_MatxX #3 Posted 09 June 2018 - 04:46 PM

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I agree with almost everything you said and no, you're not alone in this. For 5% it's a load of fun and a great endorphins buzz, for maybe 15% it's a work in progress and for the rest they're kind of the "dodo" of WOT!

 

But hey, according to some very informed members of this forum it's an evil plan devised by WG to make the casual players feel powerful when they're top tier 2% of the time! Working for you right?



Dorander #4 Posted 09 June 2018 - 05:07 PM

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I don't believe it would work, because it wouldn't achieve what you think it would achieve. The reason for this is that the numbers in WoT are limited, and what one side wins, the other side loses. This isn't just winrate, it's also damage, if you shoot the enemy, they'll shoot back less, you can't both score points unless you have some miraculous situation where both teams lose the vast majority of their hitpoints without dying.

 

Let's evaluate what happens with winrate, since WN8 is a third party stat and in-game PR takes weird factors like battles played into account. For this scenario we'll assume that everything else being equal, the better skilled team wins. Let's say we have a poor players (45% winrate), decent players (50% winrate) and good players (55% winrate). Skill-based MM would pit people of similar percentages against each other. Since one team wins and another team loses, this will result in poor players seeing an increase in winrate, after all the 45% players only see each other, skill is the only determining factor, so their winchance is 50%. Gradually their winrate will drift closer towards 50%. The average players will be unchanged, and the good players (55%) will also see their winrate drift towards 50%.

 

Now suddenly everyone's in the middle segment and seeing each other again. The matchmaker can no longer distinguish between originally differently skilled players, they'll get randomly distributed, and we have the current situation, where we know that people will eventually drift towards a winrate related to their personal skill. But every time you rise a little, the matchmaker pits you against other people who have risen a little, and you both fall again. Same with the ones whose winrates fell, who get pitted against others whose winrates fell, and they rise again.

 

So how exactly would a matchmaker work in this scenario? How small would the winrate percentage be to differentiate between skilled and unskilled players given that everyone will drift towards 50%? More importantly: how would this be significantly different from what we currently have, with random assignments curbing winrate excesses around the 40-60% range?

 

Skill tiers that you can advance into but not fall out of aren't a solution either. People will inevitably drift upwards, up to the point that they're stuck facing people better than they, unable to advance, unable to drop back, and resulting in worse results than players in the tier below who are good enough to prey on the worse players in their tier, but not good enough to advance to the next.

 

So while skill-based MM might sound appealing... how would it actually work, how would the system prevent the above from happening?



Long_Range_Sniper #5 Posted 09 June 2018 - 05:23 PM

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View PostDrumefy, on 09 June 2018 - 03:33 PM, said:

P.S.: Please don't write things like "learn to play". I don't have the time to become a unicum. I still want to play casually...

 

Your winrate is average, and your Wn8 is average. All skill based MM would do is match you against other average players which means that after another 8k games, your winrate would be 50%, and at the moment it's almost 50%.

 

You're an average player who has achieved a level of performance quite above many who play the game, and you've done it against all players.

 

But you've done it in a system that gives the same chances to all, and without worrying about queue times no matter what tank or tier you choose.

 

Your performance now is pretty good for a casual player, and if you want to win more then probably learning a few little things would make you above average. You could do this without giving up your life and living in a basement for three months watching streamers.



Pvt_Duffer #6 Posted 09 June 2018 - 05:29 PM

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View PostDrumefy, on 09 June 2018 - 03:33 PM, said:

 I still want to play casually...

 

Have you forgotten it's a game?

 

Or even that it's just a game?

 

 

I took KV-1S stock and no skill crew (well they at least had base skill of 100%, but only 86%SS on the commander), and played i dunno four or five games in it before I remembered I was supposed to add equipment to it as well. as ammo.

Hadn't even given it repair or medkits

Gave it a Camo net and a tool box because  had them in the depot. cos camo net is OP in KV-1S and as a new tank it hasn't earned enough credits to buy vents yet.

 

Play it your way,

 

Edit: two things forgot.

1) Don't troll the green guys, just the red guys

2) I have 20Mill+ silver, I *can* afford vents etc, like I have the freeXP to skip the modules, but why would I? 

  To "perform" for my team? But then I'm only playing for myself, not try-harding. supposed to fun remember.

  Plus that little dopamine hit after a few games when you can now afford to unlock the tracks, shouldn't be thrown away so lightly.

c) aim low (well perhaps not when you're shooting your gun)

 

 


Edited by Pvt_Duffer, 09 June 2018 - 05:35 PM.


General_McMuschi #7 Posted 09 June 2018 - 05:31 PM

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You're not alone in this. I've discovered the game in 2015, it is actually my first PC game I ever played.

 

I remember when I first started playing I kept getting one shotted by some weird brown boxy tanks so I made it my mission to get one for myself. It was my old T18 and back then I played hundreds of matches in it. Now it's an arty.

 

After a while I got tier 4 Matilda, I liked the playstyle so much I ended up buying my first two premiums - Matilda IV and Matilda BP. I enjoyed all 3 Matildas back then.

After more time, I got my T-34 which was so fun, and I got KV1 which was also enjoyable. I never wanted to rush to get high tiers so I stayed on mid tiers for very long time.

 

Soon I got KV1S, sometimes I'd play it with normal gun, sometimes with derp - both was really fun. And eventually I got Sherman Firefly and fell in love with it, I loved it. I also soon got KV13 and I played it like a heavy - back then, penetration on 85mm gun was good enough, mobility was great and armor worked so it was a very fun and forgiving vehicle.

 

After a long time, I bought my first tier 8 premium, T54mod 1 and most of the time I was in tier 8 matches. I played it like a heavy and it was such a bully. I also got KV 220 and this tank used to be so OP, it would print coolheaded and steel wall medals. It used to meet tier 3 tanks all the time. Hahaha.

 

After that I felt like I understand the game and know all the maps and most tanks, so I became a light tank player and this was the most fun era of my wot past. I loved my T37, played it all days long then, couldn't get enough of it. Got my tier 7 M41 Walker Bulldog and - DAMN. Haha. And then I was also playing my ELC AMX which became my favorite tank, I'd sometimes play so stupidly and yolo and get away with it... Light tanks used to put such a smile on my face. For a long time other tanks didn't even interest me, other than lights. I knew all the bushes, passive spotting was a big deal back then.

 

The thing about playing lights back then - if you did even a little well, you'd get so rewarded so even after a mediocre match, you'd feel like you played good. At the same time, even with old scout matchmaking, you wouldn't get so punished as you do now for making one simple bad move/mistake. Now - there are many derp guns that punish your mistake, autoloaders, new camping tds and too many lights in general in each battle.

 

Playerbase was also different like you mentioned - now I either see complete tomatoes, bots, or too experienced players with like 40k battles under their belt or more.

 

I got my Charioteer after a while and loved it because of the gun and camo, played it a lot and it was my favorite tank for many months. I don't know what happened to it, I just can't do well in it ever. Gun performance feels worse now, and it's camo feels like a lie. I pretty much stopped playing it.

 

I feel like WG killed all the tanks I ever loved. I feel like when I try to win, I have to kill 2/3 of enemy just to have a chance to win. Most importantly, I stopped smiling when I play wot - so I now play it rarely and enjoy watching other people's replays and videos more than playing.

 

I still love this game but I'm kinda waiting/hoping for many things to change, waiting for it to be fun again, then maybe I'll start playing regularly again. 


Edited by General_McMuschi, 09 June 2018 - 05:33 PM.


Mimos_A #8 Posted 09 June 2018 - 06:41 PM

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Just don't sweat it. You do well enough in most of your tanks to not be a burden. Just be active, don't camp, play calm (as in don't randomly rush out or run away for no real reason) and you'll be fine. There's so few maps that it doesn't take that much time to learn some key positions and how to play them, if you get some more games under your belt on the new HD maps you'll be doing fine in no time.



Yakito #9 Posted 09 June 2018 - 06:47 PM

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Funny. I always get this feeling that people are actually worse. Weekends are total slaughters. One side almost always wins 5:15 or something similar.
Casual players seem to be the majority of the players I see. Often so incompetent that I wonder if they are able to breathe on their own, without a coach reminding them "take a breath now, and again".

Edited by Yakito, 09 June 2018 - 06:47 PM.


Dava_117 #10 Posted 09 June 2018 - 06:58 PM

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To be fair, WG cater a lot to casual player. RNG, noobproof tank as Type5 and 2 tier battle are all aimed at reducing the gap between a really good player and the sunday casual. I would say that in the last years WG is aiming too much at casuals...

Jigabachi #11 Posted 09 June 2018 - 07:03 PM

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They should add a certain kind of skillbased MM that would merely try to distribute the botlevel players, who are the biggest balancing variable in the whole MM calculation.

Apart from that, you made two mistakes:
1. There is hardly any skill increase. Maybe it even got worse, because many good players left due to the questionable direction the game took quite a while ago.
Most players in this game are bad and being the best player in the team when you are plain average isn't a rare thing to happen.
The problems you face aren't due to a skill increase, it's because the entire gamebalance is going slowly down the drain.
2. "I have no time to get good!" is just a bad excuse. Getting good needs dedication, not time.

truoste #12 Posted 09 June 2018 - 07:15 PM

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The way I see it, casual players are WGs target audience and everything they have done in past few years is to cater casual players on expense of more committed onces. If even casual players are not really enjoying the current direction of the game is going to, then WG might have a problem. Nothing really few new premium tanks cannot fix....so it is all good. 

HassenderZerhacker #13 Posted 09 June 2018 - 07:47 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 09 June 2018 - 06:58 PM, said:

To be fair, WG cater a lot to casual player. RNG, noobproof tank as Type5 and 2 tier battle are all aimed at reducing the gap between a really good player and the sunday casual. I would say that in the last years WG is aiming too much at casuals...

 

sorry, the amount of XP it takes to get to Type5 contradicts "casual player"

Mimos_A #14 Posted 09 June 2018 - 08:03 PM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 09 June 2018 - 07:47 PM, said:

 

sorry, the amount of XP it takes to get to Type5 contradicts "casual player"

 

The whole line is filled with ridiculous armour for it's tier and guns that either need to hit once to make a decent game or can just derp people in the face without aiming.

Slyspy #15 Posted 09 June 2018 - 08:05 PM

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Personally if don't think that wot is as much fun for casual players with the current MM system (the sample size is one player, myself). But I don't believe that skill based mm would improve the situation. 

AXIS_OF_RESISTANCE #16 Posted 09 June 2018 - 08:20 PM

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whats up with articles keep it short damn get a life :teethhappy:

Edited by AXIS_OF_RESISTANCE, 09 June 2018 - 08:20 PM.


Bordhaw #17 Posted 09 June 2018 - 08:44 PM

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View PostDrumefy, on 09 June 2018 - 03:33 PM, said:

 

Isn't it time Wargaming introduced a matchmaker that would take player's rating into consideration? I mean, right now the game is fun for the 5% of best players. Pretty much everyone else just gets a regular beating. Not to mention the amazing new matchmaker, thanks to which you're almost NEVER top tier when playing T5 and almost NEVER top tier when playing T8.

How could this game become so hopelessly unpleasant to play?

 

 

 

Nice idea. But it's too late for that now.There just isnt enough players left. 



iuytr #18 Posted 09 June 2018 - 08:45 PM

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I agree with the OP.

 

Sticking to tiers 3-6 kindof works for me.



Isharial #19 Posted 09 June 2018 - 08:55 PM

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View PostDrumefy, on 09 June 2018 - 04:33 PM, said:

Hi,

 

I've had my WoT account for serveral years now. In the beginning I used to play quite a lot, but as you usually get a life eventually, I started playing less and less.

I've still spend around 100 Euros on the premium content like the Löwe and gold, as I really enjoyed the game few years back.

 

I've had a lot of fun with the ELC AMX, played some great games with it, got three marks of excellence. When I reached around 700 battles in it, it received such a huge nerf that it became useless. I also remember the IS-3 being a really great tank that could take a beating. I don't feel this anymore, as the frontal plates are nowadays penetrated by anything and everything. Zero bounces, except for the turret.

The Frontline mode was something that finally let me enjoy the game again, so it got taken away.

 

Over the six years I only accumulated 8 thousand games. In the same time many of you played five or ten times more than me.

Generally, the player base has improved greatly over the years, there's less and less noobs and much more very experienced players.

In the same time my skill remained pretty much the same, even though I feel like I play much better than several years back.

 

I've grown fond of World of Tanks and I really got to love the game, that's why I keep playing it even after six years.

Unfortunately, because of the overall skill increase, from a pleasant game to play on Saturday afternoons, it became a real torture.

 

Pretty much every single battle I take a huge beating and die. It's not pleasant to get whacked every three minutes by a crowd of enemy tanks.

I've tried watching a lot of good players on youtube, learning something, but I just don't have the time to play 100 games every weekend and master the skills.

 

Isn't it time Wargaming introduced a matchmaker that would take player's rating into consideration? I mean, right now the game is fun for the 5% of best players. Pretty much everyone else just gets a regular beating. Not to mention the amazing new matchmaker, thanks to which you're almost NEVER top tier when playing T5 and almost NEVER top tier when playing T8.

How could this game become so hopelessly unpleasant to play?

 

Maybe if filthy casuals like myself got to play with other casuals, they would enjoy the game much more than when they get devastated by a bunch of kids that play the game 8 hours a day?

Also, the unicums would have an actual challenge playing against each other, instead of just picking off the unexperienced folks like rabbits.

I was considering buying another premium tank to step up the game, but I'm never going to do that since the game is a painful hopeless grind, not a fun adventure to have on a free weekend.

 

Am I the only one who feels like that?

 

P.S.: Please don't write things like "learn to play". I don't have the time to become a unicum. I still want to play casually...

 

lets face it, its all about time management.

 

everyone has the same amount of time per day, its just they use it differently

there are people who have a job and still get a few hours on every day and are decent at this game (and others)

 

time management.. its all about that. 

there's things that you could stop doing, and replace with wot. but you don't, you Choose not to. its a choice.

 

everyone has the time available. your just using it for "something else" that could indeed be wot, if you wanted it to be so. 

 

to me, it sounds like "I cant be bothered, me wants it now" which might, or might not be what your trying to portray, but hey ho!

 

there are people who come home from work, load up wot, and play till bedtime, which could be 5 hours+, even if they got home at 6pm. 

you need to look at what you spend your time doing, and see what you can replace with wot. (obviously, there are things we must do, so don't go around trying to lug your desktop into the toilet anytime soon! ) but if your sat watching the TV? turn it off! reading the newspaper? put it down! 

 



tankqull #20 Posted 09 June 2018 - 09:03 PM

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the MM is the curse not the occasional (super)unicum.




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