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Why no german tank aces medals?


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Stalpanter #1 Posted 09 June 2018 - 10:37 PM

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I was reading historical references of all medals in World of Tanks and I noticed theres no german tank aces medal, how come?

 

Theres more german tank aces (panzer aces) than other nations but yet theres zero (0) german tank ace medal.Sure Germany did bad stuff but every soldiers in wehrmacht werent concentration camp guards or SS soldiers who round up jews and gassing them.

 

WarGaming think its too unconventional to praises german panzer aces?



Aimless #2 Posted 09 June 2018 - 10:48 PM

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We had several of those in the early days, like Wittmann's and Boelter's medal. Then somebody at WG found out they all actually were war criminals and got removed.

 

WG and their historians are always right. Don't question it. Just deal with it.  :B



MeetriX #3 Posted 09 June 2018 - 11:23 PM

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View PostAimless, on 09 June 2018 - 10:48 PM, said:

We had several of those in the early days, like Wittmann's and Boelter's medal. Then somebody at WG found out they all actually were war criminals and got removed.

 

WG and their historians are always right. Don't question it. Just deal with it.  :B

 

Objection.

No convictions.



Gremlin182 #4 Posted 09 June 2018 - 11:26 PM

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You want to sell the game to as many countries as possible, that can be a problem when it comes to anything that's WW2 German.

 

 



Rati_Festa #5 Posted 10 June 2018 - 12:18 AM

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View PostAimless, on 09 June 2018 - 10:48 PM, said:

We had several of those in the early days, like Wittmann's and Boelter's medal. Then somebody at WG found out they all actually were war criminals and got removed.

 

WG and their historians are always right. Don't question it. Just deal with it.  :B

Is that sarcasm? Im struggling to work out how all one nations tank commanders could be war criminals. Most of them would be following orders higher up the line of command wouldn't they?



Dorander #6 Posted 10 June 2018 - 12:19 AM

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View PostAimless, on 09 June 2018 - 09:48 PM, said:

We had several of those in the early days, like Wittmann's and Boelter's medal. Then somebody at WG found out they all actually were war criminals and got removed.

 

WG and their historians are always right. Don't question it. Just deal with it.  :B

 

Wow, I actually never noticed this, I was slightly confused by the question as in my memory there were definitely German-named tank ace medals.


Can't say I'm impressed... history is history, whether you like what happened or not. Why not just make the German tanks virtually incompetitive while you're at it... oh wait.



Homer_J #7 Posted 10 June 2018 - 12:24 AM

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View PostAimless, on 09 June 2018 - 10:48 PM, said:

We had several of those in the early days, like Wittmann's and Boelter's medal. Then somebody at WG found out they all actually were war criminals and got removed.

 

WG and their historians are always right. Don't question it. Just deal with it.  :B

 

View PostRati_Festa, on 10 June 2018 - 12:18 AM, said:

Is that sarcasm? Im struggling to work out how all one nations tank commanders could be war criminals. Most of them would be following orders higher up the line of command wouldn't they?

 

IIRC it was the German authorities which asked for the Wittmans medal to be removed.

 

It was that or have the game banned in Germany.



Rati_Festa #8 Posted 10 June 2018 - 12:26 AM

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View PostDorander, on 10 June 2018 - 12:19 AM, said:

 

Wow, I actually never noticed this, I was slightly confused by the question as in my memory there were definitely German-named tank ace medals.


Can't say I'm impressed... history is history, whether you like what happened or not. Why not just make the German tanks virtually incompetitive while you're at it... oh wait.

So cynical, they made sure some of the German tanks are competitive they just happen to all be prems... skorp, lowe, e25 and panther m/10..



Dorander #9 Posted 10 June 2018 - 12:27 AM

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View PostRati_Festa, on 09 June 2018 - 11:18 PM, said:

Is that sarcasm? Im struggling to work out how all one nations tank commanders could be war criminals. Most of them would be following orders higher up the line of command wouldn't they?

 

Depends on their rank I guess. Not a historian or WWII expert but we do know from the trials following WWII that "Befehl ist befehl" didn't fly as an excuse, there's a point at which people are held responsible for their choices. How would you judge a common soldier who volunteerd for the German army to fight in the war and followed orders to a captain who both followed and gave those orders? Or even a soldier who was drafted instead? Does rank even matter, given that we're all supposed to be capable of making moral choices, and context or consequences of disobeying be damned?

 

Add to that a genuine interest from the victors in stamping out the National-Socialist ideology in the hope that it never surfaces again and expect judgements to be harsh.



Rati_Festa #10 Posted 10 June 2018 - 12:42 AM

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View PostDorander, on 10 June 2018 - 12:27 AM, said:

 

Depends on their rank I guess. Not a historian or WWII expert but we do know from the trials following WWII that "Befehl ist befehl" didn't fly as an excuse, there's a point at which people are held responsible for their choices. How would you judge a common soldier who volunteerd for the German army to fight in the war and followed orders to a captain who both followed and gave those orders? Or even a soldier who was drafted instead? Does rank even matter, given that we're all supposed to be capable of making moral choices, and context or consequences of disobeying be damned?

 

Add to that a genuine interest from the victors in stamping out the National-Socialist ideology in the hope that it never surfaces again and expect judgements to be harsh.

Just read up on him. Looks to have been one hell of a good tanker. Nothing really mentioned on his personal actions but he was a 100% signed up Nazi, so yeah probably best not to glorify him. The medals naming historical figures is a can of worms really, there will be other nations commanders with dubious affiliations/actions for certain other nations. One persons hero could easily be despised by another person/culture.



Hedgehog1963 #11 Posted 10 June 2018 - 12:52 AM

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There's a Carius' medal in the stage awards.  He was a nazi tank commander.
 

View PostHomer_J, on 09 June 2018 - 11:24 PM, said:

 

 

IIRC it was the German authorities which asked for the Wittmans medal to be removed.

 

It was that or have the game banned in Germany.

 

I approve.  Michael Wittman's name is not however absent from the game.

 

Ekins, the gunner who is often credited with nailing the [edited]gets a medal tho'.  He was a Sherman Firefly gunner who was there at the time.   Some sources suggest it wasn't him but whatever.

 

Posted Image

 



There should be a Smoyer medal for killing enemy vehicles while your tank is on the move.  Many here will be familiar with the "Cologne Panther" footage.  Well the gunner in that Pershing with the gyro stabiliser who nailed that Panther was called Smoyer
 

Edited by NickMustaine, 10 June 2018 - 09:20 AM.


monthey_ #12 Posted 10 June 2018 - 01:51 AM

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View PostHedgehog1963, on 10 June 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

There's a Carius' medal in the stage awards.  He was a nazi tank commander.

 

He was a Wehrmacht tank commander and not a Nazi. Nazis had their military branch called the SS and the Wehrmacht didn't have that affiliation with party the SS had, unless you think all German soldiers were nazis ofc.



Stalpanter #13 Posted 10 June 2018 - 02:21 AM

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View PostAimless, on 09 June 2018 - 10:48 PM, said:

We had several of those in the early days, like Wittmann's and Boelter's medal. Then somebody at WG found out they all actually were war criminals and got removed.

 

WG and their historians are always right. Don't question it. Just deal with it.  :B

 

How are Michael Wittman a war criminal? I did read history and stories about Michael Wittman and nothing about him doing war crimes. Did Michael Wittman shot jews with his Tiger tank?

Bexleyheath #14 Posted 10 June 2018 - 02:47 AM

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Anything and everything associated with the jerries will always be more or less dubious. I think Wittman got flagged as a war criminal by association, since he served in the 1st Waffen-SS division before moving on to various specialized units. The man is hugely overrated, in my opinion. He seemed to be so utterly overconfident and reckless that it's a miracle he lasted as long as he did.

 



Hedgehog1963 #15 Posted 10 June 2018 - 08:23 AM

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View Postmonthey_, on 10 June 2018 - 12:51 AM, said:

 

He was a Wehrmacht tank commander and not a Nazi. Nazis had their military branch called the SS and the Wehrmacht didn't have that affiliation with party the SS had, unless you think all German soldiers were nazis ofc.

 

Yes he was a nazi as far as I'm concerned.  Swastika on the uniform. Dead givaway.

 

All "German" soldiers were agents of the nazis.


Edited by Hedgehog1963, 10 June 2018 - 08:45 AM.


DracheimFlug #16 Posted 10 June 2018 - 09:09 AM

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View PostBexleyheath, on 10 June 2018 - 02:47 AM, said:

Anything and everything associated with the jerries will always be more or less dubious. I think Wittman got flagged as a war criminal by association, since he served in the 1st Waffen-SS division before moving on to various specialized units. The man is hugely overrated, in my opinion. He seemed to be so utterly overconfident and reckless that it's a miracle he lasted as long as he did.

 

 

View PostHedgehog1963, on 10 June 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

 

Yes he was a nazi as far as I'm concerned.  Swastika on the uniform. Dead givaway.

 

All "German" soldiers were agents of the nazis.

 

He was SS from nearly the start of his career. The SS were considered top of the chain by the Germans. Why any suggestion that he would have been demoted?

 

And even if he did not cause any atrocites personally, his success was used as Nazi propaganda and they made up slaughters to attribute to him.



Kirusawa #17 Posted 10 June 2018 - 09:22 AM

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View PostGremlin182, on 09 June 2018 - 11:26 PM, said:

You want to sell the game to as many countries as possible, that can be a problem when it comes to anything that's WW2 German.

 

 

This game is far from reality and history i think,if wg think like it is, why they dont remove the whole german nation cuz atm all the other nations put them into shame, even the france or the upcoming polish tanks what was a walk through scenario than. 



MeetriX #18 Posted 10 June 2018 - 09:23 AM

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SS and Waffen-SS wasn't a same thing.

jabster #19 Posted 10 June 2018 - 09:25 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 09 June 2018 - 11:24 PM, said:

 

IIRC it was the German authorities which asked for the Wittmans medal to be removed.

 

It was that or have the game banned in Germany.

 

I believe so yes and you can see why with respect to German laws regardless of whether you agree with them.



DracheimFlug #20 Posted 10 June 2018 - 09:39 AM

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View PostMeetriX, on 10 June 2018 - 09:23 AM, said:

SS and Waffen-SS wasn't a same thing.

 

You are correct. Waffen-SS means 'Armed SS.' They were the military branch of the SS. And Wittman joined the SS in 1937. 




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