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Inconsistent ammo loadouts ELC even vs GW Tiger SPG

Elc Even GW Tiger Ammo Loadout Inconsistencies

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Poll: Ammo loadout on big arty pieces too small? (38 members have cast votes)

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Does Wargaming need to adjust the ammo loadout on big arty pieces like the GW Tiger to prevent running out of ammo?

  1. Yes (8 votes [21.05%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 21.05%

  2. No (30 votes [78.95%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 78.95%

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PanzerPjotr #1 Posted 09 June 2018 - 10:48 PM

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So a big [edited]SPG like a Tier IX GW Tiger can take 15 210 mm shells with, which on a proper arty map in a balanced game can easily run out before the match ends. A 210 mm shell would weigh about 60-70 kg I estimate, making the total ammo loadout weigh about 1000 kg. For a behemoth like the GW Tiger, weighing in at 60 tons that is about 1,7 % of its weight. The punniest tank in the game The ELC EVEN 90 can apparently drive around weighing almost 7 tons with 450 kg of ammo loaded (1 shell weighing appr. 10 kg). That is an ammo load weighing almost 15% of its total weight!!!! That's ludicrous!!

 

Now I know WoT is not a historically accurate game. There are loads of imaginary tanks that never existed but on paper or even only in the mind of some historical figure from those days. But then why allow a punny tank like an ELC EVEN 90 to have 45 shells on board (Where?????) and limit the ammo loadout for a big [edited]arty piece like the GW Tiger to only 15?! In reality (excluding modern autoloading arty pieces like the Panzer 2000) the ammo available on board an artillery piece is only meant to last until the ammo trucks arrive and provide the bulk of the ammo going to be sent off!!!!!! Ingame one can clearly see that the GW Tiger only has 8 shells stowed away and not 15! What is the reason to limit the amount of ammo on any arty piece and allow an ELC EVEN 90 to have so many at the ready? The reloading of a GW Tiger takes more than half a minute, which in its self, limits the potential damage it can do per any given time period. And it is utterly frustrating in a long lasting battle to run out ammo, when in reality this would never be the case.

 

So please Wargaming........fix this


Edited by PanzerPjotr, 09 June 2018 - 10:49 PM.


Homer_J #2 Posted 10 June 2018 - 12:31 AM

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Ammo load is a balancing factor, there's much worse than the GW Tiger as well.  The SU-5 only takes 12 and reloads twice as fast.

Rati_Festa #3 Posted 10 June 2018 - 01:02 AM

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Its not only arty that suffer from that issue. The t5 german Turan tank has a really low ammo count. Oddly the t54 mod 1 has an inferior ammo capacity to the t44 100 and the later is far superior. If its balancing, it the usual WG balancing ie messed up and wrong.

Ganjalf94 #4 Posted 10 June 2018 - 08:20 AM

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I'm surprised there are no "Hurr durr if arta runs out of ammo is good thing, hurr" comments.

Anyway yes there are tanks that have a way too low ammo capacity, and tanks with an unnecessarily high one. 700 on the mtls, double barrelled american tank. Really what are the chances you are ever going to need that much ammo?



Dava_117 #5 Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:16 AM

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View PostPanzerPjotr, on 09 June 2018 - 10:48 PM, said:

So a big [edited]SPG like a Tier IX GW Tiger can take 15 210 mm shells with, which on a proper arty map in a balanced game can easily run out before the match ends. A 210 mm shell would weigh about 60-70 kg I estimate, making the total ammo loadout weigh about 1000 kg. For a behemoth like the GW Tiger, weighing in at 60 tons that is about 1,7 % of its weight. The punniest tank in the game The ELC EVEN 90 can apparently drive around weighing almost 7 tons with 450 kg of ammo loaded (1 shell weighing appr. 10 kg). That is an ammo load weighing almost 15% of its total weight!!!! That's ludicrous!!

 

Now I know WoT is not a historically accurate game. There are loads of imaginary tanks that never existed but on paper or even only in the mind of some historical figure from those days. But then why allow a punny tank like an ELC EVEN 90 to have 45 shells on board (Where?????) and limit the ammo loadout for a big [edited]arty piece like the GW Tiger to only 15?! In reality (excluding modern autoloading arty pieces like the Panzer 2000) the ammo available on board an artillery piece is only meant to last until the ammo trucks arrive and provide the bulk of the ammo going to be sent off!!!!!! Ingame one can clearly see that the GW Tiger only has 8 shells stowed away and not 15! What is the reason to limit the amount of ammo on any arty piece and allow an ELC EVEN 90 to have so many at the ready? The reloading of a GW Tiger takes more than half a minute, which in its self, limits the potential damage it can do per any given time period. And it is utterly frustrating in a long lasting battle to run out ammo, when in reality this would never be the case.

 

So please Wargaming........fix this

 

It's not a matter of weight, but a matter of volume IMO. 

Those rounds are long and thick, storing them require a lot of space. Let's assume 310mm of caliber for the whole shell (210mm is just the projectile) and 1.20m long. That's quite big. Also consider that the shell may be stored with the charge and the projectile separated, taking even more room.



DracheimFlug #6 Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:34 AM

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View PostDava_117, on 10 June 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

 

It's not a matter of weight, but a matter of volume IMO. 

Those rounds are long and thick, storing them require a lot of space. Let's assume 310mm of caliber for the whole shell (210mm is just the projectile) and 1.20m long. That's quite big. Also consider that the shell may be stored with the charge and the projectile separated, taking even more room.

 

Of course in reality, arty would normally have supporting ammo trucks, since it does not expect to be up front.... 

Bordhaw #7 Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:49 AM

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View PostGanjalf94, on 10 June 2018 - 07:20 AM, said:

I'm surprised there are no "Hurr durr if arta runs out of ammo is good thing, hurr" comments.

 

 

Yawn



SuNo_TeSLa #8 Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:51 AM

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How about no

gunslingerXXX #9 Posted 10 June 2018 - 11:26 AM

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View PostGanjalf94, on 10 June 2018 - 08:20 AM, said:

"Hurr durr if arta runs out of ammo is good thing, hurr"

 

Damn, ninja'd


Edited by gunslingerXXX, 10 June 2018 - 11:27 AM.


LordMuffin #10 Posted 10 June 2018 - 12:21 PM

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View PostPanzerPjotr, on 09 June 2018 - 10:48 PM, said:

So a big [edited]SPG like a Tier IX GW Tiger can take 15 210 mm shells with, which on a proper arty map in a balanced game can easily run out before the match ends. A 210 mm shell would weigh about 60-70 kg I estimate, making the total ammo loadout weigh about 1000 kg. For a behemoth like the GW Tiger, weighing in at 60 tons that is about 1,7 % of its weight. The punniest tank in the game The ELC EVEN 90 can apparently drive around weighing almost 7 tons with 450 kg of ammo loaded (1 shell weighing appr. 10 kg). That is an ammo load weighing almost 15% of its total weight!!!! That's ludicrous!!

 

Now I know WoT is not a historically accurate game. There are loads of imaginary tanks that never existed but on paper or even only in the mind of some historical figure from those days. But then why allow a punny tank like an ELC EVEN 90 to have 45 shells on board (Where?????) and limit the ammo loadout for a big [edited]arty piece like the GW Tiger to only 15?! In reality (excluding modern autoloading arty pieces like the Panzer 2000) the ammo available on board an artillery piece is only meant to last until the ammo trucks arrive and provide the bulk of the ammo going to be sent off!!!!!! Ingame one can clearly see that the GW Tiger only has 8 shells stowed away and not 15! What is the reason to limit the amount of ammo on any arty piece and allow an ELC EVEN 90 to have so many at the ready? The reloading of a GW Tiger takes more than half a minute, which in its self, limits the potential damage it can do per any given time period. And it is utterly frustrating in a long lasting battle to run out ammo, when in reality this would never be the case.

 

So please Wargaming........fix this

450kg of 7 ton is ~6% not 15%

 



Search_Warrant #11 Posted 10 June 2018 - 01:10 PM

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Personally never understood why we have standard shell limit to begin with, same with gold shells, if people want to spam gold right from the start till the end THEY WILL DO IT regardless of ammo limit. you still pay for the shells so why are they limited?

DeadLecter #12 Posted 10 June 2018 - 07:52 PM

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View PostRati_Festa, on 10 June 2018 - 03:32 AM, said:

Its not only arty that suffer from that issue. The t5 german Turan tank has a really low ammo count. Oddly the t54 mod 1 has an inferior ammo capacity to the t44 100 and the later is far superior. If its balancing, it the usual WG balancing ie messed up and wrong.

 

Same goes for BC25t and TVP

Mr_Burrows #13 Posted 11 June 2018 - 05:16 AM

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Type 64 runs out easily, as does 13 57. 

_Anarchistic_ #14 Posted 11 June 2018 - 07:38 AM

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View PostDava_117, on 10 June 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

 

It's not a matter of weight, but a matter of volume IMO. 

Those rounds are long and thick, storing them require a lot of space. Let's assume 310mm of caliber for the whole shell (210mm is just the projectile) and 1.20m long. That's quite big. Also consider that the shell may be stored with the charge and the projectile separated, taking even more room.

 

and don't forget the size of the gun itself and the space needed for things like recoil

Edited by _Anarchistic_, 11 June 2018 - 07:44 AM.


Cobra6 #15 Posted 11 June 2018 - 07:45 AM

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I'm more concerned with the French autoloaders having too low an ammo count, artillery generally won't finish their shells in a match anyway whereas it's quite common in the autoloaders to run dry, especially the Bc25t and AMX 13 57.

 

Cobra 6



_Anarchistic_ #16 Posted 11 June 2018 - 08:04 AM

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more interesting for me is comparing ammo load outs for things of a similar type and era

 

compare cent 7/1 (72) and AX (68)  vs Conqueror (35) and S Conq (40) as examples

 

love to know the real life capacities


Edited by _Anarchistic_, 11 June 2018 - 08:04 AM.


Adwaenyth #17 Posted 11 June 2018 - 08:17 AM

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View PostPanzerPjotr, on 09 June 2018 - 10:48 PM, said:

A 210 mm shell would weigh about 60-70 kg

 

I think you underestimate the weight of a shell. Weight of a shell is more or less relative to the cube of its diameter. Thus if a 90mm shell weighs in at 10kg a 210mm shell would weigh in at about 130 kg.

View Post_Anarchistic_, on 11 June 2018 - 08:04 AM, said:

more interesting for me is comparing ammo load outs for things of a similar type and era

 

compare cent 7/1 (72) and AX (68)  vs Conqueror (35) and S Conq (40) as examples

 

love to know the real life capacities

 

Those are more (the actual production models) or less (the fictional ones) their real life capacities.

KillingJoker #18 Posted 11 June 2018 - 04:59 PM

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The funny thing about the ELC 90 , considering how slow the magazine reload is... you would need aprox 30 minutes to actually fire 45 shells.


 

IMO they should only limite the amount of shells in tanks that are really overpowered, to prevent some players to blind spam and force them to play more cautiously

i dont know about the arty, but certain tanks need to have rebalanced definitly


Edited by KillingJoker, 11 June 2018 - 04:59 PM.


spamhamstar #19 Posted 11 June 2018 - 05:53 PM

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Bad poll, no option to remove arty :P

Pvt_Duffer #20 Posted 11 June 2018 - 06:09 PM

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45*220=9,900

 

15*1100=16500

 

What'z your problemz iz?

 






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