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Talking about Obj 416 line (Not a good line imo)


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TiMeK1ll3r #1 Posted 15 June 2018 - 12:50 PM

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Maybe there is something wrong with me because it seems like many players like this new line, but I will try anyway to understand what is going on with those peoples who like such tanks.

 

I mean, maybe your playstyle is a bit more relaxed and you do not feel like using your hp for your team sake even when needed, but i have the feeling that this kind of tank isn't supposed to be part of the medium tanks branch, jus like the Leopard.

 

Are we all forgetting that medium tanks are supposed to be vehicles with good mobility, nice guns with fairly good damage and a decent armor?

By definitions what is the point of making medium tanks that fight from "the 2nd or better the third line" like most of tank destroyers?

 

There are really convinved players that state their love for the Obj 416 and want a tier X version, but really, i think that noone of the normal players who played with it really asked for it.

Yeah, it's good and all if you are really skilled and know every single map in detail and basically, as most said, if you spam premium rounds (since someone said it have amazing heat pen i suppose there is only one reason why they know that).

 

Let's talk seriously, most of the bad tanks in this game become good when you only spam premium rounds, so this kind of rides about the 416 being good are really pointless, because if you aren't, as i said before, skilled you will not enjoy it at all.

 

From a treinwreck to another we can talk about the new obj 430 II, which passed from being a good sidescraping tank with good armor and nice stats to a tier 9 Elc amx (but slow).

Yeah the gun improved, but so what? All armor reduced, no real mobility improvements as compensation, and personally the gun was really good even if everyone says it isn't.

No surprise it isn't if you are used to spam premium rounds at impossible angles and you don't take your time to aim properly.

 

Well, about the K-91 i think what i stated in my previous posts (bout it being a failure).

 

Really pointless to make a tank that noone enjoy playing, the only good think about this tank is the gun and the camo, everything else is just garbage, talking about the general impression of every single not too skilled player.

 

What i really would like to know is why would WG create a line that is only good for a really little percentage of the players, but make it available to everyone.

I just think it isn't the right path to follow if you take into consideration the fact that it's clear as the sky in the desert that most of the players aren't incredible players but instead average of below.



Balc0ra #2 Posted 15 June 2018 - 01:23 PM

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Issue is that most still expect the medium ish line gameplay. But 416 etc is more of a support tank or a TD more so then a med. And it does it rather well. 

 

And tbh I hated the old 430 II with 201 or 219 they wanted to be a brawler, when you face 240+ pen guns more so then not, or tanks with 200+ effective armor. I personally like the new 430 II more. As the gun and the extra mobility is worth the armor trade for my style. 

 

View PostTiMeK1ll3r, on 15 June 2018 - 12:50 PM, said

Are we all forgetting that medium tanks are supposed to be vehicles with good mobility, nice guns with fairly good damage and a decent armor?

By definitions what is the point of making medium tanks that fight from "the 2nd or better the third line" like most of tank destroyers

 

Most meds don't even tick most of those. 416 has good mobility, a great gun for it's tier, nice alpha and DPM. But traded armor for camo. But 416 don't have much competition in that area on it's tier or lower. K-91 has. And it only has 47 more dpm then the AMX 30B to name one. That also has good mobility, a good gun and even a turret armor that works on a ridge line. 



TiMeK1ll3r #3 Posted 15 June 2018 - 02:15 PM

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What i do not like is that at tier 9 it's not a good trade exchanging armor for a bit of mobility.

What is the point in really sluggish ligh tanks?

I would like the new version of this line if it had light tanks mobility and maybe a special perk like the LT mobility camo, but as it is now, it's not an enjoyable line at all.

How many times do you need to trade shots? How many times it's relly important to bounce that single shell that could change the match outcome? Personally it happens often and the struggle in having no armor and not a great mobility is that you have to rely on RNG or on the other player poor aiming skills.

But most of the times if someone is at high tiers there is a fairly good chance that that last shot will hit you and end your game.

 

I just sincerely hate Obj 416 and the new following tanks because the only special thing about them is the gun, but it's not nearly enough of a compensation for all the drawbacks it have.

And one last thing is that you can only have good matches on maps that are open, because if you play in city maps or closed areas you have no chances at all to make a real difference since most of the times you are forced to brawl.

 


Edited by TiMeK1ll3r, 15 June 2018 - 02:19 PM.


Balc0ra #4 Posted 15 June 2018 - 02:31 PM

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IMO his armor was only good on 100% flat ground. With other meds you either had to push a ridge line, showing your belly and lower plate before you got your gun on them. Or the other way around, they had your upper plate and hull to shoot at. And the lack of gun depression when a small bump came around a corner did not help either. And armor is pointless if your gun is not good enough for most targets you face. It's like the Chrysler K that can't even pen himself. As most used the 201 pen gun on it. 

 

So... armor trade off for a high pen gun if you look at it that way, with way better dispersion values. I'll def take that too. 

 

But light tank like mobility with a high pen gun and a low profile? Idk. And how many times do you need to trade shots? Not often in the new variant. As like the 416, on the 2nd line using camo and cover. I've not had to do trading. And thus the armor is not that vital. But it works now since I can pen stuff. With 201 pen or 219 it did not do that role reliably in a tier X game. And as I said, bouncing don't help if you can't pen them either. As the old tank could not hit the broad side of a barn, standing inside it. Nor pen that often head on vs most targets. 


Edited by Balc0ra, 15 June 2018 - 02:31 PM.


Simeon85 #5 Posted 15 June 2018 - 03:21 PM

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430 v2 is awful, they have ruined it, taken away it's main strength and given it nothing substantial in return, the other two are ok. 

 

K-91 certainly seems more capable than just sniper, but it is more suited to mid to long range combat, but that level of DPM, plus usual Russian med agility means it's quite scary in flanking and close circling situations. 

 



TiMeK1ll3r #6 Posted 15 June 2018 - 04:35 PM

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View PostSimeon85, on 15 June 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

430 v2 is awful, they have ruined it, taken away it's main strength and given it nothing substantial in return, the other two are ok. 

 

K-91 certainly seems more capable than just sniper, but it is more suited to mid to long range combat, but that level of DPM, plus usual Russian med agility means it's quite scary in flanking and close circling situations. 

 

 

If by circling you mean circling other not fully rotatable turreted tanks and super heavy tank then yeah, it's quite good at circling.

But it surely need a mobility buff if you want to leave it as it is without changing the branch.

It's surely not a fast tank, the mobility is mediocre, the good thing is the acceleration but that's it, that's the good thing about it.

For the amount of armor it have it certainly needs higher top speed/reverse and some other adjustments with terrain resistances.

 






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