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Proposals to make SPGs less frustrating to play against

SPG Arty Frustrating Skill Proposal Poll

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Poll: What do you think about these three steps? (27 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Step 1 : What do you think?

  1. The minimap idea is good, it should be implemented (1 vote [3.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.70%

  2. The minimap idea is flawed, some things need to be corrected (3 votes [11.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  3. The minimap idea is not good/irrelevant, the current view is already good (16 votes [59.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 59.26%

  4. Other idea (post it in the comments) (3 votes [11.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  5. I don't know/have an opinion (4 votes [14.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.81%

Step 2 : What do you think?

  1. Stun should be applied on direct hits, splash radius and module damage should be increased (1 vote [3.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.70%

  2. Stun should be applied on direct hits, but splash radius and module damage (as well as other stats) should stay the same (6 votes [22.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.22%

  3. Stun should stay the same, but other stats such as pen, damage, etc should increase (2 votes [7.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.41%

  4. Stun should be removed, but other stats should increase (1 vote [3.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.70%

  5. Stun and other stats are as good as it is, no need to modify them (14 votes [51.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 51.85%

  6. Other idea (post it in the comments) (3 votes [11.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  7. I don't know/have an opinion (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Step 3 : What do you think?

  1. Max 2 SPGs per battle per team with a preference for one per battle per team (7 votes [25.93%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.93%

  2. Max 1 SPG per battle per team (6 votes [22.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.22%

  3. Let us the option to choose via the settings menu (1 vote [3.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.70%

  4. Max 3 per battle per team is already good, no need to change it (11 votes [40.74%])

    Percentage of vote: 40.74%

  5. Other idea (post it in the comments) (2 votes [7.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.41%

  6. I don't know/have an opinion (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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The_DarkAnathema #1 Posted 16 June 2018 - 03:33 PM

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Hello fellow WoT players I hope you all have a good day :)

 

Before I start to write, and before you start to read, please note that I do not hold the ultimate truth, my own opinions are flawed, so I count on you to help me correct those flaws. This is not a whining post either. I also am a noob, no need to remind me of it, I'm fully aware. Thanks :)

 

This is a poll, so everyone can vote, your constructive opinion is also very welcome :)

 

Today I played some battles in WoT, where some of them having three SPGs. I was baffled to see how my teammates and our opponents were getting spammed, permatracked or perma-stunned by SPGs focus. SPG is a heated topic to discuss as the WoT community has very different opinions on the subject.

Some think that SPGs should be removed, some think that it should be left as it is, some others think that it needs some rebalancing, among others. I think that it should be rebalanced.

But I can safely assume that it is very frustrating to be targeted by one or more SPG during the course of a battle: you get stunned, tracked, unable to defend yourself, and depending on the amount of armor you have your time on the battlefield can be drastically reduced.

 

So today I present you my own ideas to make SPGs less frustrating to play against and more interesting to play.

 

-Step 1: Magic Sky view

SPGs have a special vertical view that allows them to see everything on the battlefield. That allows them to never miss a pixel of a tank which is hiding. That also enables them to hit moving targets more easily that any other tank classes (The pointer is directly aimed at the ground so lobbing shells over moving tanks is less likely)

From where I see it, its like the commander has been tied to a balloon with a radio and can observe the battlefield (Which looks absolutely realistic if you ask me)

 

Minimaps in the game have been reworked, and are much more accurate of where the opponent is. So instead of giving them a magical sky view which is very unfair IMO (and forbidden on other tank classes), pressing Shift(default) will put the minimap on the middle of the screen, and will allow for more accurate shots. In addition the minimap for SPGs will feature a pointer, and an aiming circle as slightly bigger tank icons whith their actual representation on the minimap (see the attachments).

 

This would be much more realistic, and would contribute as a buff to SPGs players awareness as they would notice the LTs rushing towards them on the minimap.

 

-Step 2: SPGs stats and stun mechanic.

 

Stun is an original mechanic brought by WG into WoT to compensate for SPGs damage reduction. When a tank gets directly hit by a huge caliber HE shell fired from an SPG, the crew is sure disoriented and confused. BUT if it hits 10 meters away from the tank, I don't see why you should be stunned from a SPG shell hitting the ground (or another tank) meters away from you.

 

In consequence the stun mechanic should be applied only if the tank is directly hit. In order to compensate for the inaccuracy due to the gun stats and the minimap aiming(if chosen), splash radius and module damage should be increased.

 

My point is: when playing as an SPG you should be able to support your teammates, do some detracking, module damage and a bit of damage also, with direct hits resulting in stunning the opponent, allowing your teammates to push against a heavily armored target camping and holding a position, or detrack and deter groups of mediums pushing on a side of the map giving time to to your teammates to recover and re-organize themselves to fend off attackers. As for playing other classes it would remove the frustration of feeling helpless when getting targeted by SPGs.

 

-Step 3: Presence in the game.

 

Due to the current status of WoT, SPG players tend to focus the same targets, even if they don't belong to the same platoon. As a result, a lot of players return to the garage early as they've been focused and spammed to death. Having a game with three fast reloading SPGs or three high damage SPGs can be very painful if you get caught and immobilized by one of them.

 

My idea is to have maximum 2 SPGs per battle per team, but the MM should always try to put only one of them first, and put a second one if no viable matchup is found. This would drastically reduce the fear of getting spammed and killed the moment you get out of cover.

 

Another option is to let players choose the max number of SPGs they want in battle by tweaking their settings (3, 2, 1 or even 0) but I think it would be a little bit too wild.

 

For SPG players it would be easier to play as other SPG players can easily scare a tank that they were also aiming, reducing the chances of doing damage.

 

So here are my three steps to improve SPG gameplay, making it less frustrating for players to play against and more interesting for SPG players to play with.

Thank you for taking the time to read, and see you on the battlefield :)

Attached Files

  • Attached File   Magicskyview1.jpg   58.27K
  • Attached File   Magicskyview2.jpg   61.05K


Jumping_TurtIe #2 Posted 16 June 2018 - 03:41 PM

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The solution to play against is impossible, it can be made a bit less frustrating by reducing de number of arties allowed to just one per team and delete the tier 9 and 10 from the game.

 

There are no other choices to make it less hated or furstrating. The only option is to remove them all from the game.



Tankyouverymuch2 #3 Posted 16 June 2018 - 03:51 PM

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inb4 this gets moved to the arty discussion thread because WG doesn't want to hear anything about arty and purges every arty idea thread into the pinned thread which they use as a trashcan for arty threads.



Balc0ra #4 Posted 16 June 2018 - 04:09 PM

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1: So basically like arty worked in BF 1942? The idea with the current view is not to focus on realism. But simplicity. To make the game more open and easier to understand, thus appealing to more players. Not to make it a math project to fire a shell. And most avoided the M7 in 1942 for that reason. That and that system was relying on other players asking for fire. 

 

2: I agree that the stun calculations on a wide miss etc should be reworked. But increasing stun and module damage contradicts the other spg rage topics. So I suspect that would make it worse for some. It's basically if you want to get stunned, or perma tracked all the time, and lose half your crew when they miss? So I don't see how that would fix it.... or improve anything. 

 

3: 3 was chosen for many reasons WG have explained before. And they make sense. And tbh, do you want 2 on your team all the time, or 3 with the odd 1 or 0 here and there. As I've been playing tier 9 all day. Seen a few 3 SPG games, and a few with 1. Not a single one with 2. I don't mind keeping it like that. As with no 3, he needs to fill the zero and 1 games up with 2 more. You could say 3 is the price you pay to get arty free games now and then. With 2 I suspect they would be less common. 

 

The only fix they need to apply is a arty counter system. As in ways for your arty players to get estimates where the enemy arty is. But at the same time limit it or make it a bit clever so that their client doesn't get too much info from the server, so that cheat mods can be built on it. As in the server sends marks or circles on the SPG players map when the enemy SPG fires. That is a ruff estimation on the area they are in. And not sending their direct firing location, or the enemy info for players to make mods out of. 

 



unrealname #5 Posted 16 June 2018 - 04:32 PM

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More visible arty shell tracers would solve some of the issues, as then they should focus more on each other, rather than faping on tanks.

Xandania #6 Posted 16 June 2018 - 04:41 PM

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Option: if we reduce the stun for misses, we need to increase it for full hits - and disable the option to get rid of it with medkits. As many here mainly play it mainly for these missions. Since they changed the ability to toon up with old style berts anyhow.

The_DarkAnathema #7 Posted 16 June 2018 - 04:57 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 16 June 2018 - 04:09 PM, said:

1: So basically like arty worked in BF 1942? The idea with the current view is not to focus on realism. But simplicity. To make the game more open and easier to understand, thus appealing to more players. Not to make it a math project to fire a shell. And most avoided the M7 in 1942 for that reason. That and that system was relying on other players asking for fire. 

 

2: I agree that the stun calculations on a wide miss etc should be reworked. But increasing stun and module damage contradicts the other spg rage topics. So I suspect that would make it worse for some. It's basically if you want to get stunned, or perma tracked all the time, and lose half your crew when they miss? So I don't see how that would fix it.... or improve anything. 

 

3: 3 was chosen for many reasons WG have explained before. And they make sense. And tbh, do you want 2 on your team all the time, or 3 with the odd 1 or 0 here and there. As I've been playing tier 9 all day. Seen a few 3 SPG games, and a few with 1. Not a single one with 2. I don't mind keeping it like that. As with no 3, he needs to fill the zero and 1 games up with 2 more. You could say 3 is the price you pay to get arty free games now and then. With 2 I suspect they would be less common. 

 

The only fix they need to apply is a arty counter system. As in ways for your arty players to get estimates where the enemy arty is. But at the same time limit it or make it a bit clever so that their client doesn't get too much info from the server, so that cheat mods can be built on it. As in the server sends marks or circles on the SPG players map when the enemy SPG fires. That is a ruff estimation on the area they are in. And not sending their direct firing location, or the enemy info for players to make mods out of. 

 

 

Arty counter system. Sounds quite good. I think it should be easy to use, so arty players have to be extremely attentive after firing to not be destroyed, compel them to change positions during the battle and try to find new positions. Wouldn't a ping on the minimap showing the arty's shell trajectory would be better rather than a circle?



Aikl #8 Posted 16 June 2018 - 05:01 PM

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Artillery would generally be far more palatable if they weren't risk-free damage-/stun-dealers. The game as a whole lacks a relationship between risk and reward. Artillery in particular, and it's not much more unreliable than a tank is when it comes to 'sniping'.

 

Funny thing is, it's still in the game. If it wasn't good for profits, Wargaming would sure as heck not keep it in the game. I can only assume that it's good for player retention or that player bracket who plays artillery a fair amount actually spend money on the game.

Of course, 'because money' is not a good argument for quality gameplay - but quality gameplay is not exactly what certain major changes to WoT is about.

 

(I don't see artillery becoming more challenging/complex/harder as particularly likely - even the changes to artillery in 9.18 kept it dumbed-down.)


Edited by Aikl, 16 June 2018 - 05:03 PM.


gunslingerXXX #9 Posted 16 June 2018 - 05:06 PM

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didn't bother to read. Just remove arty already

Jigabachi #10 Posted 16 June 2018 - 05:15 PM

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That changed aiming mechanic would require LOTS of rebalancing. Rebalancing that would be A LOT harder than now. You merely scratched the surface there. And what about teamdamage?

How would you hit ANYTHING that way?



GaleForceSix #11 Posted 16 June 2018 - 05:22 PM

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To be honest, I have played arty more just lately as I am developing three different nations along their arty lines.

 

I've had many games with 2 arty per team, probably more with three, and less with just me as arty. They have the balance pretty good.

 

I recognise that it is frustrating when you are taken out early in a battle by arty, but to an extent that is down to a number of factors:

Firstly the scouts have done their job and allowed you to be targeted by the arty. If you have been spotted but your team mates haven't because you have made a mad dash and left yourself exposed, that is YOUR gameplay you need to look at more than trying to get the people who killed you nerfed or removed because you would rather have that than learn from your mistakes.

Secondly, I tend to look in the areas that arty tend to go to on the map. The tracers are there, and you can sometimes detect their arty even if they haven't been spotted. Falling trees and tracers when they fire give you a fairly good point of focus, and after that they are wasting time relocating if you did your job well. Good counter-arty fire at the start of the battle can make a huge difference in how the battle unfolds.

Thirdly, stunning damage is actually a fairly good thing brought in by WG. It is a logical and necessary response to the over-damage that arty had previously, and has a basis in truth (the proximity of nearby explosions has a disorientating effect, and my Grandfather's heart was actually shifted across his body when a shell landing close by threw his armoured car sideways).



ccoolliinn_1 #12 Posted 16 June 2018 - 05:49 PM

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Arty will not be removed from the game but three on each team is a joke. My main complaint is how are they so accurate compared with say a KV1s or KV2 with derp guns, sometimes these can't hit from 100m. but arty like the m44 seems to hit from across the map. If the accuracy of these SPG are to be believed they should miss more 

The_DarkAnathema #13 Posted 16 June 2018 - 06:20 PM

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View PostgunslingerXXX, on 16 June 2018 - 05:06 PM, said:

didn't bother to read. Just remove arty already

 

What about people who played spent dozens of hours, credits, exp and maybe real money on getting and playing on arty? Should they be punished because of bad class balancing?
 

View PostJigabachi, on 16 June 2018 - 05:15 PM, said:

That changed aiming mechanic would require LOTS of rebalancing. Rebalancing that would be A LOT harder than now. You merely scratched the surface there. And what about teamdamage?

How would you hit ANYTHING that way?

 

It would actually need *cough* SKILL *cough* to hit anything
 

Edited by NickMustaine, 17 June 2018 - 08:17 AM.


gunslingerXXX #14 Posted 16 June 2018 - 06:26 PM

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View PostThe_DarkAnathema, on 16 June 2018 - 06:20 PM, said:

 

What about people who played spent dozens of hours, credits, exp and maybe real money on getting and playing on arty? Should they be punished because of bad class balancing?

 

Nope, arty should become PvE only. Everybody wins

soul3ater #15 Posted 16 June 2018 - 06:30 PM

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For now, I would like arty to be reduced to 1 per team and every time arty fires it's gets spotted. now counter arty will have an actual impact if there's any.

Erwin_Von_Braun #16 Posted 16 June 2018 - 06:34 PM

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Some interesting ideas.

Personally, I'm in favour of SPG's location being pinged on the map every time they fire - would certainly help with counter battery and make the class more exciting to play.

I play a lot of arty and, to be quite honest, I think the stun mechanic is a good idea but  the splash radius is far too large and needs reigning in a bit.


 

And on the third, and probably most important point, I would welcome max one per game.



Jigabachi #17 Posted 16 June 2018 - 07:03 PM

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View PostThe_DarkAnathema, on 16 June 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

It would actually need *cough* SKILL *cough* to hit anything

Then you have to explain it some more, because right now it looks like it's becoming an even bigger slot machine, which emans LESS skill.



Chefren77 #18 Posted 16 June 2018 - 07:17 PM

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The matchmaker should try to form 15v15 arty-only matches!

 

Actually the map pinging is a great idea, but some arty today is just too slow to relocate effectively and at the same time too fragile to take the additional hits a system like that would result in. Even better would be to put smoke (non-concealing, just visible) for a while around the area where arty has fired. Then it still requires someone to actually be looking to see it, which is better than a map ping.



Another option would be to show with a ring on the ground the area a shell will hit when it has been fired, but is still traveling in the air. It would help with the dodging.
 

Baldrickk #19 Posted 16 June 2018 - 07:29 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 16 June 2018 - 05:15 PM, said:

That changed aiming mechanic would require LOTS of rebalancing. Rebalancing that would be A LOT harder than now. You merely scratched the surface there. And what about teamdamage?

How would you hit ANYTHING that way?

 I'm fine with arty never hitting anything.



The_DarkAnathema #20 Posted 16 June 2018 - 09:38 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 16 June 2018 - 07:03 PM, said:

Then you have to explain it some more, because right now it looks like it's becoming an even bigger slot machine, which emans LESS skill.

 

With the removal of the sky view, you would have to rely on your minimap to hit anything, which means mindless shooting will become completely ineffective. you would have to pay attention to houses and rocks as well as terrain irregularities in order to hit.







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