Jump to content


A good enough reason I guess....

rage team kill toxicity shishx lemmingrush

  • Please log in to reply
89 replies to this topic

WindSplitter1 #41 Posted 18 June 2018 - 09:05 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 15939 battles
  • 2,560
  • [ORDEM] ORDEM
  • Member since:
    02-07-2016

View PostMike_Mckay, on 18 June 2018 - 04:30 AM, said:

 

The amount of damage NEEDS to be high as you cant stop some moron from driving in front of you when youre aimed in on a target just as you fire

 

That's their fault most of the time, but the game can only record who damages who


The better solution would simply be to remove team damage completely then problem solved, idiots cant shoot their own team mates and punishment ceases to even be a discussion any more

 

I disagree entirely. It should be the opposite to begin with. I reckon this is my experience only and doesn't not account a broader spectrum but deliberate teamkilling is much more commonplace than that of accidental.

 

Allies exchanges shots between each other is one of the things I'll never understand. Regardless, people who want to teamkill should not have a crutch.



Mike_Mckay #42 Posted 18 June 2018 - 10:13 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 20415 battles
  • 1,552
  • [-AWF-] -AWF-
  • Member since:
    09-02-2015

View PostWindSplitter1, on 18 June 2018 - 08:05 PM, said:

 

I disagree entirely. It should be the opposite to begin with. I reckon this is my experience only and doesn't not account a broader spectrum but deliberate teamkilling is much more commonplace than that of accidental.

 

Allies exchanges shots between each other is one of the things I'll never understand. Regardless, people who want to teamkill should not have a crutch.

 

But without an army of support staff watching each and every game to see if damage or kills were "deliberate" or accidental there is no way to know, and as WG struggle to even find enough support staff for actual problems who can levitate above sending completely unrelated copy/paste responses most of the time that's hardly likely to ever happen

So an automated system can only base outcomes on frequency, but even then some people will do deliberate damage but stay below the threshold whilst others will just have a glut of idiots driving in front of them just as they fire or poor RNG taking a shot into a friendly tank and cross the threshold and get banned. If you reduce the amount youre just as likely to end up banning more players who don't deserve it than you do the ones who do which is just stupid for something that's not exactly a "huge" problem all things considered in the first place


But as theres no real reason for even being able to damage team mates in the first place just removing that feature would resolve the problem instantly and without WG having to find even more "support" level drooling window lickers to watch the vids to place blame

Edited by Mike_Mckay, 18 June 2018 - 10:14 PM.


MPV_11 #43 Posted 21 June 2018 - 12:30 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 29061 battles
  • 276
  • Member since:
    01-09-2015

View Postjabster, on 18 June 2018 - 07:03 PM, said:

 

I still think the combo of bacon and stilton makes it imbalanced. Maybe a crust of breadcrumbs and crumbled stilton and forget the bacon?

 

Wrong way around - forget everything else and just keep the bacon!

pecopad #44 Posted 21 June 2018 - 12:46 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 23520 battles
  • 946
  • [UGN] UGN
  • Member since:
    09-04-2015

Toxicity in WOT.... LOL

 

Guess the OP does not play other online games...

 

FPS and war games are the living grounds for rednecks and supremacists, Wot is a little (much)  better because the player population is not going through adolescence.

 

I think the most weird conversations and theories I have ever listened was in my old Clan, and this are regular folks, and they were being serious, not toxic... And during Clan wars....hard to believe how people get so flamed over nothing.

 

Strange that most of this guys had never served in the army... or maybe its not that strange....


Edited by pecopad, 21 June 2018 - 12:48 PM.


MPV_11 #45 Posted 21 June 2018 - 12:54 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 29061 battles
  • 276
  • Member since:
    01-09-2015

View PostStrappster, on 18 June 2018 - 07:24 PM, said:

It's got nothing to do with RNG, it's the players. Whether it's because those players object to the current level of RNG because they believe causes gold spam which they believe leads to armour power-creep is immaterial - the root cause is the players. If the players accepted 25% RNG, they'd accept misses and bounces more readily. If the players weren't toxic to each other, we'd still have cross-team chat.

 

 

I always hold my shot in those situations unless it's clear that the guy on my side needs help. Even then, I'll try to splash on the far side of the enemy to stun him and give my team mate the advantage. But then I don't think there's any such thing as "my" kill and when I'm in arty my primary goal is to provide support where it's needed.

 

Well I beg to disagree. I do agree that some players can control their aggression and so are unlikely to react too badly to RNG but those who are already predilected to anger will react to RNG and this will spill into their game as a whole (and of course there are those who are just naturally toxic anyway).  I've seen/heard a lot of ranting about RNG (in game, in the forum and in videos/streams). I know from personal experience that a run of 'bad' RNG raises my frustration levels to an extent that I can become (somewhat) toxic and I'm not the only one. The other factors that players rant about are gold ammo and OP tanks and Shishx and Lemmingrush make a good argument that these are both driven by RNG (difficulty in hitting the minute weak spots on OP tanks causing gold spamming as the only way to penetrate (because with gold aiming at weak spots and RNG are not so important). You could even argue that the current frustration with MM is partly driven by RNG - when your chances of penning a +2 opponent are low anyway, not doing dmg because your few opportunities of actually penning anything disappear into the wild blue yonder adds to the frustration

 

And I speak from the perspective of an average player - I don't have the knowledge or skill (or hand to eye coordination) that would mitigate some of the issues with weak spots, so RNG can be a big deal to me in a game.

 

Interestingly yesterday I got a message from a player who (in not so polite terms) told me to learn weak spots (out of 5 shots I actually managed before dying an inglorious death, 4 didn't pen and 1 missed entirely - yes git gud blah blah blah) but as I pointed out to him all the shots were well aimed and showing green, but none hit anywhere close to where I aimed. We ended up on amicable terms and he apologised for ranting at me and said he was just mad because in the after game stats he saw that hardly anyone in the team had actually penned anyone. So RNG did drive toxic behaviour in his case.

 

And great to hear of an arty player who doesn't deliberately do team damage - unfortunately rare in my experience....


Edited by MPV_11, 21 June 2018 - 01:48 PM.


PoIestar #46 Posted 21 June 2018 - 01:45 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 31707 battles
  • 4,078
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    05-02-2013

As said here, the source of this particular problem is the fact that a team based game, where teamplay is the core of the game, it means that an individual can put off blame by saying "well the team failed". 

 

While there are arguably situations where failed teamwork IS the source of the loss, so what? That's part of the game. You can't win them all.

 

It helps yourself if you were to look at what YOU did wrong. And that could be nothing, as in, you did nice, the enemy team just did better. But there are situations, personal experience counted here, where I drive an armored tank overconfidently into enemy fire, and get smashed by gold rounds. In retrospect: I could blame the enemy for firing gold. I could also use my tank's armor to avoid him killing me so easily. 

 

If you understand that difference, and are able to reflect yourself using the latter statement, the game will definitely be more enjoyable, and you will learn in the process.



jabster #47 Posted 21 June 2018 - 01:59 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 12537 battles
  • 23,390
  • [WSAT] WSAT
  • Member since:
    12-30-2010

View PostPoIestar, on 21 June 2018 - 12:45 PM, said:

As said here, the source of this particular problem is the fact that a team based game, where teamplay is the core of the game, it means that an individual can put off blame by saying "well the team failed". 

 

While there are arguably situations where failed teamwork IS the source of the loss, so what? That's part of the game. You can't win them all.

 

It helps yourself if you were to look at what YOU did wrong. And that could be nothing, as in, you did nice, the enemy team just did better. But there are situations, personal experience counted here, where I drive an armored tank overconfidently into enemy fire, and get smashed by gold rounds. In retrospect: I could blame the enemy for firing gold. I could also use my tank's armor to avoid him killing me so easily. 

 

If you understand that difference, and are able to reflect yourself using the latter statement, the game will definitely be more enjoyable, and you will learn in the process.

 

It’s defintely the right attitude to have. Instead of thinking what did my team do wrong, think about how often you do something wrong. 

NUKLEAR_SLUG #48 Posted 21 June 2018 - 03:14 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 29181 battles
  • 2,261
  • Member since:
    06-13-2015

View PostWindSplitter1, on 17 June 2018 - 08:48 PM, said:

 

It's quite sad. I've made two posts about it. No point mentioning those again, though.

 

It's not the actual teamkilling of friendlies that bothers me. It's the:

 

  1. High tolerance given to team damage;
  2. Unwillingness from WG to address the issue;
  3. Lightweight punishment distributed to perpetrators.

 

or a combination of the above. It wouldn't be too hard to give each tank its own "teamkilling" threshold to sort out the difference between a trigger happy B-C 25t tanchist or a slow shooting O-Ho derpasmatron. Time consuming yes, but how hard can it be to mess around with XML files?

 

1. They had to make the tolerance high because of the idiot players reporting people for stupid reasons like 'Shot me and I don't understand how'

2. They did address it, you have a report system, but it got abused by the idiot player base.

3. If it wasn't this too many people would be suffering unfair penalties from all the idiot players reporting people for stupid reasons like 'Has better stats than me'

 

In short the reason the penalty system is ineffective is mostly down to the idiot player base. Got a way to fix that?



xZeddy #49 Posted 21 June 2018 - 03:32 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 17638 battles
  • 25
  • [SLO_A] SLO_A
  • Member since:
    04-04-2013
I were team killed, cuz i were capping, and he didn't like this :/ destroy all tactic at the end you loose match hahaha yea...

MPV_11 #50 Posted 21 June 2018 - 04:05 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 29061 battles
  • 276
  • Member since:
    01-09-2015

View Postpecopad, on 21 June 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

Toxicity in WOT.... LOL

 

Guess the OP does not play other online games...

 

 

No this is the first.... (and only)



Baldrickk #51 Posted 21 June 2018 - 05:19 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 30109 battles
  • 14,298
  • [-TAH-] -TAH-
  • Member since:
    03-03-2013

I team-killed yesterday.

Ammoracked a top tier light for roughly the alpha of my 152mm Borsig shell.

 

Shot was fired at side of enemy T-10 and I was too focused on dialling the shot in to notice the light make his move.

 

Imagine if team damage was turned off.

My bad play wouldn't have meant anything



WindSplitter1 #52 Posted 21 June 2018 - 08:44 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 15939 battles
  • 2,560
  • [ORDEM] ORDEM
  • Member since:
    02-07-2016

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 21 June 2018 - 02:14 PM, said:

 

1. They had to make the tolerance high because of the idiot players reporting people for stupid reasons like 'Shot me and I don't understand how'

2. They did address it, you have a report system, but it got abused by the idiot player base.

3. If it wasn't this too many people would be suffering unfair penalties from all the idiot players reporting people for stupid reasons like 'Has better stats than me'

 

In short the reason the penalty system is ineffective is mostly down to the idiot player base. Got a way to fix that?

 

:facepalm:

 

View PostBaldrickk, on 21 June 2018 - 04:19 PM, said:

I team-killed yesterday.

Ammoracked a top tier light for roughly the alpha of my 152mm Borsig shell.

 

Shot was fired at side of enemy T-10 and I was too focused on dialling the shot in to notice the light make his move.

 

Imagine if team damage was turned off.

My bad play wouldn't have meant anything

 

And that LT player would not be punished for... not necessarily mistake. It happens. But he/she could still be in the play.

As if playing LTs isn't hard enough.

 

These are the little things I'm referring to.



Baldrickk #53 Posted 21 June 2018 - 10:53 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 30109 battles
  • 14,298
  • [-TAH-] -TAH-
  • Member since:
    03-03-2013

View PostWindSplitter1, on 21 June 2018 - 08:44 PM, said:

 

:facepalm:

 

 

And that LT player would not be punished for... not necessarily mistake. It happens. But he/she could still be in the play.

As if playing LTs isn't hard enough.

 

These are the little things I'm referring to.

True, but you could put a little blame (not a lot) on him too, for driving onto the TD side of an enemy as it was crossing (and thus only exposed for a short time) a well known TD kill-zone.

 

Yeah, sucks to be him, but a mistake by the team put the team at a disadvantage and I was punished for it.

Sounds fair



HeidenSieker #54 Posted 21 June 2018 - 11:00 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 10046 battles
  • 4,650
  • Member since:
    03-26-2016

View PostMike_Mckay, on 18 June 2018 - 10:13 PM, said:

But as theres no real reason for even being able to damage team mates in the first place just removing that feature would resolve the problem instantly and without WG having to find even more "support" level drooling window lickers to watch the vids to place blame

 

I agree with WindSplitter1's comment under the circumstances, but your comment is also worthy of careful consideration.

 

All I hear is that "removing team damage will lead to worse problems". What "worse problems" do you think other people think would happen?



Mike_Mckay #55 Posted 21 June 2018 - 11:06 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 20415 battles
  • 1,552
  • [-AWF-] -AWF-
  • Member since:
    09-02-2015

View PostHeidenSieker, on 21 June 2018 - 10:00 PM, said:

 

I agree with WindSplitter1's comment under the circumstances, but your comment is also worthy of careful consideration.

 

All I hear is that "removing team damage will lead to worse problems". What "worse problems" do you think other people think would happen?

 

They wouldn't be able to kill team mates when they feel like it or when said team mate doesn't play the game exactly how they want them to WHEN they want them too

That seems to be a HUGE problem to many who play WOT :)

I had a moron yesterday drive right across my path then shoot me for hitting him, and also yesterday some total retard in a lutz I think was pissed I beat him to the place he wanted to spot from, so he shot me with his puny little peah shooter, then tried to push me out of the way for about 30 seconds or so before realising his toy tank couldn't budge mine, then when I was moving anyway he tried to shoot me again and it bounced, so I hit him with one shot and took half his health and for some unfathomable reason he didn't want to play any more and toodled off across the other side of the map

To be fair though I did repeatedly track the E100 on my team in a football mode match yesterday as he just charged for the other teams goal every kick off and stayed there leaving me (t62) and our AMX to play goalie, so when we were 2-0 down I gave up on the game and just kept tracking the [edited]so he didn't even make it to the half way line before they got their third goal
 

Edited by Mike_Mckay, 21 June 2018 - 11:08 PM.


LordMuffin #56 Posted 22 June 2018 - 07:50 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 48123 battles
  • 11,107
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    06-21-2011

View PostWindSplitter1, on 17 June 2018 - 08:48 PM, said:

 

It's quite sad. I've made two posts about it. No point mentioning those again, though.

 

It's not the actual teamkilling of friendlies that bothers me. It's the:

 

  1. High tolerance given to team damage;
  2. Unwillingness from WG to address the issue;
  3. Lightweight punishment distributed to perpetrators.

 

or a combination of the above. It wouldn't be too hard to give each tank its own "teamkilling" threshold to sort out the difference between a trigger happy B-C 25t tanchist or a slow shooting O-Ho derpasmatron. Time consuming yes, but how hard can it be to mess around with XML files?

WG is way to kind to its players in general I believe.

TK is more or less allowed.

Deserting aswell.

Suiciding ASAP aswell.

Drowning aswell.

Blocking/pushing team mates aswell.

 

These are things that shouldn't be allowed, but since WG don't punish any of these behaviours in a meaningful way, they are common.

And WG also completely refuse to look at replays about blocking/pushing/TK etc since the automatic system and report system handles that fine. Which is just a load of bulls hit. 



LordMuffin #57 Posted 22 June 2018 - 07:54 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 48123 battles
  • 11,107
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    06-21-2011

View PostBaldrickk, on 21 June 2018 - 05:19 PM, said:

I team-killed yesterday.

Ammoracked a top tier light for roughly the alpha of my 152mm Borsig shell.

 

Shot was fired at side of enemy T-10 and I was too focused on dialling the shot in to notice the light make his move.

 

Imagine if team damage was turned off.

My bad play wouldn't have meant anything

And I think that if you did this again within say 100 battles, you should be banned.

You made a mistake to kill your team mate.

With a possibility to appeal.

 

Though a harsh system might make sub 1000 wn8 players try their best to get into the line of fire of team mates to get those banned. Which should be a bannable behaviour first time it is done.

Proved by replays.

 

But such things would require WG to actually care about these matters. 



Kothaar #58 Posted 22 June 2018 - 08:17 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Beta Tester
  • 59157 battles
  • 389
  • [IGNOR] IGNOR
  • Member since:
    01-05-2011
It is not the RNG, it is the kiddos who simply cannot get over the fact that you cannot win every time. So they get angry and frustrated, and try everything so their win percentage becomes better. They drive their precious t-59 for 3000 games. They pay money for cheats. Because apparently, this game is not about having fun, it is about caring about your stats. So they see a bad game or two and get extremely angry, and the losses are of course somebody elses fault every time. So they start to punish other players.

Edited by Kothaar, 22 June 2018 - 08:17 AM.


Mike_Mckay #59 Posted 22 June 2018 - 09:10 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 20415 battles
  • 1,552
  • [-AWF-] -AWF-
  • Member since:
    09-02-2015

View PostLordMuffin, on 22 June 2018 - 06:50 AM, said:

WG is way to kind to its players in general I believe.

TK is more or less allowed.

Deserting aswell.

Suiciding ASAP aswell.

Drowning aswell.

Blocking/pushing team mates aswell.

 

These are things that shouldn't be allowed, but since WG don't punish any of these behaviours in a meaningful way, they are common.

And WG also completely refuse to look at replays about blocking/pushing/TK etc since the automatic system and report system handles that fine. Which is just a load of bulls hit.

 

The problem there is time


It would take a LOT of people and a LOT of time to do a hands on approach which would mean less to spend on cocaine and hookers


Its why WG doesn't seem to have a round robin server but instead takes the entire game offline for their updates and then the endless procession of patches to fix all the errors they should have got right BEFORE releasing the update


An automated system is "usually" never as a good as an actual person doing it, but even then actual people are fallible or have their own biases that come into play anyway so even that isn't "perfect" and you need a tiered approach with completely separate teams doing the checks and balances


So its a lot of expense and a lot of manpower


So merely removing what is an unnecessary feature to begin with is by far both the cheapest and the easiest solution



LordMuffin #60 Posted 22 June 2018 - 11:55 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 48123 battles
  • 11,107
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    06-21-2011

View PostMike_Mckay, on 22 June 2018 - 09:10 AM, said:

 

The problem there is time


It would take a LOT of people and a LOT of time to do a hands on approach which would mean less to spend on cocaine and hookers


Its why WG doesn't seem to have a round robin server but instead takes the entire game offline for their updates and then the endless procession of patches to fix all the errors they should have got right BEFORE releasing the update


An automated system is "usually" never as a good as an actual person doing it, but even then actual people are fallible or have their own biases that come into play anyway so even that isn't "perfect" and you need a tiered approach with completely separate teams doing the checks and balances


So its a lot of expense and a lot of manpower


So merely removing what is an unnecessary feature to begin with is by far both the cheapest and the easiest solution

The automated TK can be done automated.

1 team damage instance, and you need 100 battles without it. If you don't make it, boom and banned.

Deserting.

1 in 100 is ok. The 2nd, boom banned.







Also tagged with rage, team kill, toxicity, shishx, lemmingrush

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users