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Obj. 705 weak armor as heavy tank


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kawasakicale #1 Posted 22 June 2018 - 11:00 PM

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Hello everyone, I wish to aske for buff or check for Obj.705 tier IX tank, it is about its dome and body. . .

So, dome have 300mm front armor but in game u can see that everyone can penetrate it with standard armor. Too much weak spots. Give him better dome or make this more "aerodynamic" so he can compare to others in battle with IX and X tanks. Body is weak everywhere so please make make it to be playable like heavy in front line of battle, now its more medium.



Even lower tier can easy penetrate him.
 

Isharial #2 Posted 22 June 2018 - 11:23 PM

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not every tank is meant to "be this" because its of a certain type, 705 included, or should French heavies be buffed too because they also have weak armour?

 

it might be heavy class, but it sacrifices some armour in favour of other features, namely, alpha in the 705's case. mobilitys not too bad either. with those in mind, the weaker armour is a form of balancing

 

maybe you should be looking at how you play the tank, and not blaming the tank itself...

 

if you want a fat superheavy with lots of armour, there are plenty of others you could have chosen....



Dava_117 #3 Posted 22 June 2018 - 11:31 PM

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Why people plays armoured tank if they can't use armour propely?

705 is fine, not the best armour layout, sure, but it's far from paper.

 

The problem is that you expect armour to works autonomously. But it's not like this. You need to angle the tanks, increasing the effective thickness. Get better at angling and all the problem will gone. 



UrQuan #4 Posted 22 June 2018 - 11:49 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 22 June 2018 - 11:31 PM, said:

Why people plays armoured tank if they can't use armour propely?

705 is fine, not the best armour layout, sure, but it's far from paper.

 

The problem is that you expect armour to works autonomously. But it's not like this. You need to angle the tanks, increasing the effective thickness. Get better at angling and all the problem will gone. 

 

This, learn your tank armor layout. See what it could be most effective used. Then look for map-terrain that offers this. Presto: strong armored tank.

The Object 705 armor layout makes it good on the move (drive angled) but not on hill-ridges, as the armor angles are bad then + lack of gun-depression but at the same time the rear-turret makes it a good sidescraper as long as you don't over-angle. So got to find that rock/corner you can use to sidescrape.

The spaced side armor makes it quite resilient when you make sure your side is at an angle when driving.

Hide LFP when you can, that's the tank's soft point (this is a feature shared with many armored tanks) + be careful fighting tall tanks in melee, they can pen your UFP then. With this tank, it's best to keep your opponent at a medium range to get the most out the armor.

The turret armor layout makes it important to face your turret towards the enemy for maximum armor protection. The gun's alpha adds to your armor, because more alpha means you don't need to expose as often as a lower alpha tank to dish out damage.

 

Different armor layouts -> Different roles for your armored heavy. What works for one, doesn't necessarily work for another armored HT.

 

Keep in mind, all armored tanks must be penetrable one way or another, else they're OP. Learn to minimize the chances to get penetrated & you get one great tank.


Edited by UrQuan, 23 June 2018 - 12:54 AM.


kawasakicale #5 Posted 22 June 2018 - 11:57 PM

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Yeah i know for angling, but why is IS-M then more heavy then 705? 

Balc0ra #6 Posted 23 June 2018 - 12:07 AM

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View Postkawasakicale, on 22 June 2018 - 11:57 PM, said:

Yeah i know for angling, but why is IS-M then more heavy then 705? 

 

Cus tier for tier vs the 705. His gun is rather trash in terms of alpha and even pen. Even most tier 8 meds have a more reliable gun then that tank. 705 is rear turreted for a reason. It's best used in a corner with the side armor at an angle, not head on. 

kawasakicale #7 Posted 23 June 2018 - 12:18 AM

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705 was just waste of money spent.. I tough it will be in top tier good same as IS-M in top tier but its not like that.

Enforcer1975 #8 Posted 23 June 2018 - 12:24 AM

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View PostDava_117, on 22 June 2018 - 11:31 PM, said:

Why people plays armoured tank if they can't use armour propely?

705 is fine, not the best armour layout, sure, but it's far from paper.

 

The problem is that you expect armour to works autonomously. But it's not like this. You need to angle the tanks, increasing the effective thickness. Get better at angling and all the problem will gone. 

Had a game where i could sidescrape against a Skorpion G and 103-0 in my 430. The armor on that thing isn't the best but i got the angling right in that game and bounced 5k just from those two. I even got yoloed by two tanks but lucky me i had my own swedish tier 9 TD supporting me at the right time. 



kawasakicale #9 Posted 23 June 2018 - 12:26 AM

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And how the *edited* mediums like 430, 140 are more heavy then medium? This game is going to be boring

 

This post has been edited by the moderation team due to: (Insults)


Edited by akataMM, 19 July 2018 - 01:10 PM.


Dava_117 #10 Posted 23 June 2018 - 07:21 AM

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View Postkawasakicale, on 23 June 2018 - 12:26 AM, said:

And how the *edited* mediums like 430, 140 are more heavy then medium? This game is going to be boring

 

Well, first of all, each tank has its role. Just because it's classified as a medium or heavy doesn't mean it has the same role as another tank with the same classification.

A TVP is quite different from a 430U, isn't it? And the same goes between a grille15 and a T110E3. Different tank, different role, as I said before.

430 is quite well armoured as a med and, as Enforcer1975 said, can even work as a sidescraper if you find the right angle. As almost every other tank in game with 60+mm sides, I would say...

This give variety to the game IMO. If all the tanks with the same classification should work the same, why have 400+ veicles in game when 46 would be enought?


Edited by akataMM, 19 July 2018 - 01:10 PM.


Spurtung #11 Posted 23 June 2018 - 08:02 AM

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View Postkawasakicale, on 23 June 2018 - 12:00 AM, said:

please make make it to be playable like heavy in front line of battle, now its more medium.

 

If it's like a medium, then play it as such and good luck with that.



Sfinski #12 Posted 23 June 2018 - 08:55 AM

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View Postkawasakicale, on 23 June 2018 - 01:26 AM, said:

And how the *edited* mediums like 430, 140 are more heavy then medium? This game is going to be boring

 

How can you be this stupid after almost 20k games? 

Edited by akataMM, 19 July 2018 - 01:11 PM.


RamRaid90 #13 Posted 23 June 2018 - 09:10 AM

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Learn your role.

 

705 is NOT a frontline heavy tank. It is a heavium. It can befrontline vs weaker opponents, and vs stronger ones it needs to second line support or go with the mediums.

 

430U is also a heavium. Against lower tiers it should play a heavier role, as opposed to the medium role it can do vs tier Xs.


Edited by RamRaid90, 23 June 2018 - 09:10 AM.


Simeon85 #14 Posted 23 June 2018 - 09:50 AM

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Got to love that turret armour that is at worst 315mm effective and has no weakspots, plus a 250mm upper plate is now weak armour. Hull down this thing is not far off an IS7 and is a sidescraping monster.

 

Where are these turret weakspots exactly? 

 

Posted Image

 

That is against the 704's BL-10 gun, so 286mm of penetration, amongst the best standard pen on tier 9, so pretty much all tier 9 heavies and meds have virtually no chance of penning with standard rounds and even 330 pen HEAT rounds have to hit certain spots and decent pen rolls. 

 

It bounces 45% of shots fired at it according to Vbaddict, same as a Mauschen and Vkb pretty much, and it's much faster than those two tanks. 

http://www.vbaddict.net/statistics.php?tier=9&tanktype=0&nation=0&premium=0&modeid=0&team=0&battles=1000&groupby=0&fieldname=nodamageshotsratio&server=

 

It's also overperforming on the win rate curves so is basically OP -

 

Posted Image

 

This why we have such broken tanks in the game right now, players like this who want tanks which already have lots of armour buffed even more.

 

Basically they are whining they can't sit in the open bouncing all the shots because it actually has a lower plate weakspot (even then angled most tier 8s can't reliably pen it)


Edited by Simeon85, 23 June 2018 - 09:52 AM.


DuncaN_101 #15 Posted 23 June 2018 - 10:01 AM

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just lol

leggasiini #16 Posted 23 June 2018 - 10:04 AM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 23 June 2018 - 10:10 AM, said:

Learn your role.

 

705 is NOT a frontline heavy tank. It is a heavium. It can befrontline vs weaker opponents, and vs stronger ones it needs to second line support or go with the mediums.

 

430U is also a heavium. Against lower tiers it should play a heavier role, as opposed to the medium role it can do vs tier Xs.

 

Nah, it's way too sluggish for the heavium role. Turns like a boat and its not exactly fast enough. Rear turret with horrible lower plate is not exactly ideal for the heavium role, either. It does have solid top speed, so I guess it can do such things as pushing medium flanks, but a lot of HTs that are not slow as hell can do that as well and 705 is not exceptionally special on it. That doesn't mean it's a heavium. Heavium is a hybrid of heavy and medium, like 430U, 277 and Chinese HTs. 705 is not a heavium at all for the reasons I mentioned.

 

Basically you plant yourself on a building, bounce pretty much everything except HE, and then late-game you just use your 2k HP pool and good alpha to trade. The 705 is basically a one trick pony. Imagine Emil II/Kranvagn converted into a sidescraping HT, and you got this thing.



Enforcer1975 #17 Posted 23 June 2018 - 10:05 AM

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View Postkawasakicale, on 23 June 2018 - 12:26 AM, said:

And how the *edited* mediums like 430, 140 are more heavy then medium? This game is going to be boring

The front armor can be penned by tier 8s unlike on real heavies and more often than not result in a damaged fuel tank. I'm using my repair kits to repair the fuel tank the majority of the time and only repair tracks in emergencies unless i want to turn into a torch with the follow up shot. 


Edited by akataMM, 19 July 2018 - 01:12 PM.


AliceUnchained #18 Posted 23 June 2018 - 10:29 AM

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View Postkawasakicale, on 22 June 2018 - 11:00 PM, said:

Hello everyone, I wish to aske for buff or check for Obj.705 tier IX tank, it is about its dome and body. . .

So, dome have 300mm front armor but in game u can see that everyone can penetrate it with standard armor. Too much weak spots. Give him better dome or make this more "aerodynamic" so he can compare to others in battle with IX and X tanks. Body is weak everywhere so please make make it to be playable like heavy in front line of battle, now its more medium.



Even lower tier can easy penetrate him.
 

 

In short, you have no clue what you're babbling about. As becomes more evident which each follow up post.

Edited by AliceUnchained, 23 June 2018 - 10:30 AM.


RamRaid90 #19 Posted 23 June 2018 - 10:58 AM

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View Postleggasiini, on 23 June 2018 - 09:04 AM, said:

 

Nah, it's way too sluggish for the heavium role. Turns like a boat and its not exactly fast enough. Rear turret with horrible lower plate is not exactly ideal for the heavium role, either. It does have solid top speed, so I guess it can do such things as pushing medium flanks, but a lot of HTs that are not slow as hell can do that as well and 705 is not exceptionally special on it. That doesn't mean it's a heavium. Heavium is a hybrid of heavy and medium, like 430U, 277 and Chinese HTs. 705 is not a heavium at all for the reasons I mentioned.

 

Basically you plant yourself on a building, bounce pretty much everything except HE, and then late-game you just use your 2k HP pool and good alpha to trade. The 705 is basically a one trick pony. Imagine Emil II/Kranvagn converted into a sidescraping HT, and you got this thing.

 

Mine worked well pushing med flanks and forcing aggressive play, finished the grind in just 70 battles with a 61% win rate(xp boosters used) but it was a solid tank.

Cannes76 #20 Posted 23 June 2018 - 11:04 AM

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View Postkawasakicale, on 23 June 2018 - 12:26 AM, said:

And how the *edited* mediums like 430, 140 are more heavy then medium? This game is going to be boring

 

Now you are just being absurd.

Edited by akataMM, 19 July 2018 - 01:13 PM.





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