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IS-M vs kv-4......


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AlwaysLate #1 Posted 23 June 2018 - 06:07 PM

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Why would someone go for the kv-4 over the IS-M let us not talk about the line just those 2 tanks at tier 8.

i suppose kv-4 was meant to be a good side scraper at tier 8? but now we have the is-m that does what the kv-4 do but  even better ?



Dava_117 #2 Posted 23 June 2018 - 06:14 PM

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View PostAlwaysLate, on 23 June 2018 - 06:07 PM, said:

Why would someone go for the kv-4 over the IS-M let us not talk about the line just those 2 tanks at tier 8.

i suppose kv-4 was meant to be a good side scraper at tier 8? but now we have the is-m that does what the kv-4 do but  even better ?

 

KV-4 has better side armour and a far better gun. Is better at sidescraping too, thanks to the boxy layout.

MeNoobTank #3 Posted 23 June 2018 - 06:28 PM

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did not played IS-M but KV-4 is kinda outdated. I would better say: Why would play the KV-4 when VK 100.01 P does everything a KV-4 can do but better?

FluffyRedFox #4 Posted 23 June 2018 - 06:32 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 23 June 2018 - 05:14 PM, said:

 

 Is better at sidescraping too, thanks to the boxy layout.

I don't think so, issue with the KV-4 is that you can't poke while sidescraping as people will just go right through your turret whenever you want to fire which you don't get with the IS-M. 



Dava_117 #5 Posted 23 June 2018 - 06:50 PM

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View PostFluffyRedFox, on 23 June 2018 - 06:32 PM, said:

I don't think so, issue with the KV-4 is that you can't poke while sidescraping as people will just go right through your turret whenever you want to fire which you don't get with the IS-M. 

 

It's just different the way you poke. In IS-M you simply go backward, while on KV-4 you first bait shot on turret side and then poke. But as effective armour, KV-4 is better.

IS-M is actually a midway between KV-4 and IS-3, so is hard to compare them...



UrQuan #6 Posted 23 June 2018 - 07:35 PM

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View PostMeNoobTank, on 23 June 2018 - 06:28 PM, said:

did not played IS-M but KV-4 is kinda outdated. I would better say: Why would play the KV-4 when VK 100.01 P does everything a KV-4 can do but better?

 

KV-4 is faster & the gun has better gun handling + the prem ammo is actually worth something when bottomtier. VK 100 is much better armored tho & the topgun packs a punch, but the lack of speed & mobility can really work against it. At least the KV-4 can reach critical locations on time & it can actually turn (and it's already a slowpoke on this)

On the other hand, VK 100 does have much better viewrange (serious why did it need this?)

 

View PostAlwaysLate, on 23 June 2018 - 06:07 PM, said:

Why would someone go for the kv-4 over the IS-M let us not talk about the line just those 2 tanks at tier 8.

i suppose kv-4 was meant to be a good side scraper at tier 8? but now we have the is-m that does what the kv-4 do but  even better ?

 

If we look at the standard MM tier 8 gets, the KV-4 still has the better deal. KV-4 has better side armor, but softer turret (albeit you can angle it to bounce shots, unlike IS-M, but IS-M turret front is stronger). IS-M has a rear placed turret, allowing it to get more out of it's side-armor (but it has less then KV-4).

The main reason that KV-4 is superior is the gun penetration & handling. When sidescraping, you need a gun that hits where you want, because likely, your opponent is also sidescraping/hulldown/angling/whatever he does to minimize damage. In this a reliable gun can be a great asset & the KV-4 offers this. That the prem shell has a very high pen helps against higher tier armored targets, something the IS-M lacks, so it relies alot more on teammates to handle higher tier armored targets properly.

Note: on places where only low cover is present for sidescraping, the IS-M wins out. Quite some places are unsuitable for the KV-4 to use, as the tank is so tall, forcing it to expose it's miniturret first, giving enemies time to aim at it. Malinovka & Murovanka come to mind, Steppes & Tundra also have this.

 

 

When it comes to pushing, things become different. On short distance, VK-100 has no competition, it's formidable armor layout makes it one great tank to breach enemy formations with.

On longer distances, IS-M & KV-4 are on par. They both are speedier & more mobile (needed: got to drive zig-zag to maximize shell absorption for armor), IS-M has the stronger turret & can bounce plenty when folks shoot it there, while KV-4 does not have this luxury, but it has better side armor, giving it more room in angling. To add to this, the KV-4 gun is more reliable on the move + higher RoF & can thereby suppress enemies into hiding easier, don't even need to pen, just hitting can be enough to keep m down when you approach.

 

Summed up: 

- VK 100, for when you really need a brick to seal a place shut, or to breach that enemy defense next door. Close range engagements best (lack of speed + mediocre gun handling). Doesn't like long rides. Gun packs a big punch (440 alpha) fires slow.

- IS-M, for when you need your more open terrain defended or charged. Can drive longer distances. Gun doesn't like longer distances tho. Most mobile of the 3 as well. Gun packs a punch (390 alpha)

- KV-4, for when you need your streets & lanes defended or charged. Can drive longer distances. Mobility bit worse then IS-M, still can run circles around a VK 100 however. Gun works on longer distances, fires faster and punches the thickest armor. Trades it for less punch.

 

In short, they all got their roles to play. In reality, the VK 100 & KV-4 are the better suitable tanks in the current T8 MM tbh. VK 100, because it has T9 grade armor  & alpha on a T8 tank. KV-4 because of the (top)gun, allowing it to actually hurt higher tier armored tanks, along with the side-armor to bounce it.

IS-M only has his side armor & turret to work with against higher tiers

Dava said it best, the IS-M is a sort of hybrid between IS-3 & KV-4, merging qualities of these two tanks into one.

In my personal opinion, the KV-4 is the best allround tank of the 3 discussed tanks (VK 100, IS-M & KV-4), thanks to the combination of mobility, armor layout & the gun. Do keep in mind that on this part, I'm likely biased due to my experience in said tank.

 

Bonus: VK 100 can work as makeshift spotter when needed, due to the viewrange of 400 meter. KV-4 & IS-M can only do the hitlog detection method *Tank X fired from roughly location Y, I know this because I just bounced his shell*

Fun fact; for reasons unknown, the KV-4, despite being the most 'primitive' tank (designed in 1941) has the best radiorange. 

 

When the enemy VK 72 thinks your KV-4 is free XP

 

When that KV-4 & his friend absolutely, positively have to die: Send everyone into the city! Ignore defending the objectives! (FrontLine mode)

 


Edited by UrQuan, 23 June 2018 - 09:08 PM.


AlwaysLate #7 Posted 23 June 2018 - 09:11 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 23 June 2018 - 06:14 PM, said:

 

KV-4 has better side armour and a far better gun. Is better at sidescraping too, thanks to the boxy layout.

 

it does have better side but you have to bait the shot to your hull since your turret is weak specially vs gold which is every where these days before shoting back which is not that easy since enemies are not that retarded these days.

and trust me if you get rngesus on yourside plus getting retarded enemies u can actually get steel wall even with elc even
 

shane73tank #8 Posted 24 June 2018 - 08:15 AM

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Read the title and thought...........wait until urquan kv-4 guru speaks

Stereoscope #9 Posted 24 June 2018 - 08:48 AM

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I have more fun with the IS-M, not sure why.  The KV-4 is the superior tank.  

DA_ZOHAN #10 Posted 24 June 2018 - 09:06 AM

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I played the KV4 waaaaaay back, in the days when I could barely manage 500 wn8.

I bought it back, like I did with quite a few tanks, in order to ""re-roll"" without re-rolling.  Have not yet gotten around to session it.  But having gone through the IS-M very recently, I think the KV4 is superior to the IS-M.

I have no problem penning the IS-M, and the KV4 still produces troll bounces when u think you should have penned it.

Plus, there is absolutely no comparing the Primary Guns.  KV4 wins by a landslide in all parameters.

 

Gonna do a 100 battle re-roll on the KV4 within the next month.  I am certain that some seriously nice results will be forthcoming, unless I get screwed by MM royally, and get the 7 in 60-70% of games.



CircleOfSorrow #11 Posted 24 June 2018 - 10:19 AM

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View PostDA_ZOHAN, on 24 June 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

I played the KV4 waaaaaay back, in the days when I could barely manage 500 wn8.

I bought it back, like I did with quite a few tanks, in order to ""re-roll"" without re-rolling.  Have not yet gotten around to session it.  But having gone through the IS-M very recently, I think the KV4 is superior to the IS-M.

I have no problem penning the IS-M, and the KV4 still produces troll bounces when u think you should have penned it.

Plus, there is absolutely no comparing the Primary Guns.  KV4 wins by a landslide in all parameters.

 

Gonna do a 100 battle re-roll on the KV4 within the next month.  I am certain that some seriously nice results will be forthcoming, unless I get screwed by MM royally, and get the 7 in 60-70% of games.

 

*edit

Edited by Rvirgo, 24 June 2018 - 01:14 PM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks.


Dava_117 #12 Posted 24 June 2018 - 10:26 AM

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View PostAlwaysLate, on 23 June 2018 - 09:11 PM, said:

 

it does have better side but you have to bait the shot to your hull since your turret is weak specially vs gold which is every where these days before shoting back which is not that easy since enemies are not that retarded these days.

 

It's not necessary to have retarded enemy. The trick is angling the turrer in such a way enemy thinks they can pen it while they can't. Humans are not that good at evaluating angles, especially in a bidimensional simulation of a tridimensional event. Sure it's not automatic as going back with the IS-M, but have the advantage of being able to bounce higher tier shell that can penetrate IS-M turret front.

UrQuan #13 Posted 24 June 2018 - 11:12 AM

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View PostAlwaysLate, on 23 June 2018 - 09:11 PM, said:

 

it does have better side but you have to bait the shot to your hull since your turret is weak specially vs gold which is every where these days before shoting back which is not that easy since enemies are not that retarded these days.

and trust me if you get rngesus on yourside plus getting retarded enemies u can actually get steel wall even with elc even
 

 

Being impenetrable isn't always an advantage tho. Remember, you're not only tanking those shots for yourself, but also the team. Much less folks will shoot an IS-M's turret, saving their shot for something else. More folks will attempt to shoot the KV-4 turret, who can angle it to deflect shots. The advantage of this is that it can bounce shells with far higher pen then IS-M, who can't angle the turret, if it pens, nothing can help it (as mentioned by Dava above).

Besides, people's understanding of armor mechanics & shell mechanics has been on the decline I feel. When weakspots were a thing, people took more care in their shots. Now they just shoot. If it fails to pen too much, they switch to prem, without realizing why they cannot pen, resulting that their prem ammo still does not pen.

 

I do give you that the IS-M has a much easier time shooting back when no high pen guns are around however.

 

On the last bit, consistency is the difference between luck & skill. Everyone can get a Steel wall, High caliber or Topgun when the situation is fully in your favour & RNG cooperates. But getting them regularly in a wide variety of matches is what marks skill. Don't see that ELC repeating his Steel Wall anytime soon. Me on the other hand, I know I'll get a Steel Wall or two on a nice evening. Probably one by bouncing TX shells. 

 

 

View Posttrusteft, on 24 June 2018 - 08:48 AM, said:

I have more fun with the IS-M, not sure why.  The KV-4 is the superior tank.  

 

Nothing wrong with that :great: Play the tank you enjoy, not the tank that's better. Doesn't hurt to try the better tank, but if you enjoy the other one more, play that. It's a game after all & we're supposed to have fun with the tanks we drive.

It's why I keep driving the KV-4 after all. Even tho T8 MM is in a bad shape for armored tanks, I keep driving it, for the combination of the armor layout, speed & gun characteristics is unique in WoT.


Edited by UrQuan, 24 June 2018 - 11:14 AM.


Stereoscope #14 Posted 25 June 2018 - 10:45 AM

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I want to add something to what I said in my previous post.

I just realized something.

All these games that I played with my IS-M.  You know, the games that I said that I prefer the IS-M to the KV-4...

Well, it looks like all these battles (68)I was playing with the stock turret...

I now prefer it even more. :)

 



lnfernaI #15 Posted 25 June 2018 - 11:01 AM

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KV-4 was always the best,back at it's introduction,and it still is. People who doubt and wrong it,are most likely noobs.

TankkiPoju #16 Posted 25 June 2018 - 11:26 AM

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Most people said KV-4 sucks, but I had also fun times with it on my way to ST-I. IMHO the KV-4 armor works a lot better when you don't actually get into heavy tank brawls at point blank range, instead keep 100-150m distance.

 

This was before 3-5-7 MM though :hiding:



Cobra6 #17 Posted 25 June 2018 - 12:09 PM

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My KV-4 bounces more shots than my IS2-M so that should tell you enough.

 

Also, the KV-4 is more reliable then the IS2-M.

 

I only use the KV-4 for HT-12 missions where you have to bounce X amount your HP because it always delivers. I always had more damage blocked in that thing on average than the tank has health to begin with Haven't checked if that is still the case lately though.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 25 June 2018 - 12:10 PM.


Cuck0osNest #18 Posted 25 June 2018 - 04:07 PM

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4rd wave of overpowerness vs 1st

Edited by Cuck0osNest, 25 June 2018 - 04:08 PM.


Cobra6 #19 Posted 25 June 2018 - 04:22 PM

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View PostCuck0osNest, on 25 June 2018 - 03:07 PM, said:

4rd wave of overpowerness vs 1st

 

I think this is the first time in 8 years that I've been playing where someone calls the KV-4 of all things overpowered......

 

Armor wise it's one of the best balanced heavies in the game with weakspots (if you know where they are) that can be penned by same tier tanks and tanks one or more tiers lower. 

It has an average gun and terrible mobility to compensate for this armor.

 

Honestly, what do you think is overpowered, I'm seriously curious?

 

Cobra 6



DA_ZOHAN #20 Posted 25 June 2018 - 04:27 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 25 June 2018 - 05:22 PM, said:

 

I think this is the first time in 8 years that I've been playing where someone calls the KV-4 of all things overpowered......

 

Armor wise it's one of the best balanced heavies in the game with weakspots (if you know where they are) that can be penned by same tier tanks and tanks one or more tiers lower. 

It has an average gun and terrible mobility to compensate for this armor.

 

Honestly, what do you think is overpowered, I'm seriously curious?

 

Cobra 6

 

I think he means the IS-M is the 4th wave, and the KV4 is 1st wave.  (as in powercrept)

 

EDIT:

Still curious though how the IS-M is OP, since it really isn't.  Not even in a Non-Defender/252U Team Battle or SH game.


Edited by DA_ZOHAN, 25 June 2018 - 04:28 PM.





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