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Romanian tech tree


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Mita2002 #1 Posted 24 June 2018 - 11:52 AM

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This is a Romanian tech tree proposal, which contains two full branches: one of light(low tier) and medium tanks(tier IV->tier X) and one of tank destroyers. It was quite challenging to find some original designs, two of them being almost my creation(almost). If you have better ideas/options, please comment.

So, let's start with the medium branch:

 

Tier I:R-1

The R-1 or the Ah-IV was a very small light tank/tankette used mainly by Romania, Sweden and Iran during the Second World War and after the war by Ethiopia. Romania bought 36 vehicles in the prewar era and obtained an unknown number of vehicles during the war. The Malaxa factory built one upgunned prototype, in late 1939 but production never started because it was alredy obsolete.

 

Tier II:R-2

The R-2 was the Romanian designation for the Lt.vz 35 or the Pz. 35 t. Romania ordered 126 pieces in August 1936, which were delivered in 1938. Romania wanted to order 512 more in January 1941 along with 216 R-3(tier IV) but Germany didn't approve any export. These R-2's had better radios and armour and would have been known as R-2 A. Instead, Germany sold 26 worn-out panzer 35 t. Romania tried to modify its R-2's in 1942 using armour plates(like on the panzer IV H) but they were declared obsolete.

And:T-26/37mm

In 1941, Romania captured at least 30 T-26 tanks. It was decided to use them as frontline tanks. Because standardisation was needed, it has been decided to rearm this tanks with a 37 mm gun. Also, there were plans to modify the engine, because of the lack of spare parts.

 

Tier III:T-38

The T 38 was the Romanian designation for the German panzer 38t. 50 were delivered in 1943 by Germany in order to maintain the Romanian first armoured division as a fighting force.

And:R 35CDL/VDC

This is a Romanian used Renault R 35 tank. In 1943, a turreted tank destroyer was built by extending the turret in order to mount the 45 mm anti tank gun. Both are represented as the same tank(CDL=Car de luptă=tank/VDC=Vânător de care=tank hunter)

 

Tier IV:R-3(original design-sort of)

This is the succesor of the Lt.vz 35, known also as Skoda T-21. Romania planned to order 216 R-3's in January 1941. This tanks would have been armed with a 47 mm gun and would have become the main medium tank of the Romanian army. After repeated acquisition failures, Romania decided to build these tanks locally but this never happened.

 

Tier V:R-4(I am very excited about this tank)

After the disastrous(from a Romanian point of view) Soviet offensive at Stalingrad, it was obvious that Romania was lacking a powerful tank, in order to counter the Soviet T 34's. It was decided to somehow upgrade the existing tanks or to modify an existing German, Czech or French project in order to create a powerful and easy to build tank. This materialised as the TACAM series.It might have been proposed to modify the plans for the R-3 in order to create a modern tank armed with the German  Pak 40 or with the brand new Romanian Resita DT-UDR 75 mm gun. In order to do this, a new turret was necessary and some extra armour. It would have been impossible to do that, without affecting the suspension, so it was thought to use space armour(as on Pz IV H or stug IV).

 

Tier VI:T-34 E STZ 12/15

In late 1941/ early 1942, the Romanian forces faced for the first time the T 34 capturing an unknown number of them, including a few T 34E(an uparmoured version of the T 34). It was decided to mount an unnamed 120 or 150 mm howitzer, in order to create a tank capable of destroying fortifications. The project was halted because the necessary modifications were to costly.

 

Tier VII: Just a Panther

Captured by the Soviets, used by the Romanians. I do not have access to classified Cold War era documents in order to find(or not) a project or a prototype... Maybe a Panther with a 90 mm laser gun?

 

Tier VIII: TR-1974

After the Sino-Soviet split and the invasion of Czechoslovakia, Romania distanced itself from the Soviet Union. In 1974, the first Romanian known Cold war era prototype was created. It was similar to the T-55, but had some important differences: one more buggy whell on each side, thicker armour and a German 800 hp engine.

 

Tier IX:TR-1976

The final prototype of the first Romanian designed and built MBT. It has an elliptical turret, the same hull as the TR-74 but with thicker armour. It has a Romanian 580 hp engine. The 800 hp prototype would evolve in the TR-800 and later in the TR-85.

 

Tier X:TR-77-580

The first Romanian series MBT. It has way thicker armour than a T-55, the hull similar with that of the TR-76 and the same 580 hp engine. At least 400 were built, some of them being exported to Egypt and Irak(unknown).

Tank destroyers:

Tier II:TACAM R-1

A tank destroyer built on a modified R-1 tank hull, armed with a captured Soviet 45 mm gun. Interestingly enough, this is a turreted tank destroyer.The project was canceled because it was thought to be a waste of badly needed resources. 

Should I add this in the medium line(because it is turreted) instead of R-2 and find something else as a tier II TD?

 

Tier III:TACAM T-60

This was a tank destroyer built on a modified T-60 hull, armed with an ex-soviet 76.2 mm gun.At least 34 were built in 1943. In October 1944 all surviving vehicles were confiscated by the Soviet union. It is thought that at least one is kept at Kubinka, near Moskow

 

Tier IV:TACAM R-2

The TACAM R-2 was a tank destroyer built on the chassis of an obsolete R-2 tank mounting a 76.2 mm Soviet gun. Also, it has been proposed to use the 75 mm Resita or even the Pak 43. 20+1 were built in 1944, participating in the Budapest offensive and the Prague offensive. Only one is known to exist today.

 

Tier V:Mareșal M-O3

The fourth Mareșal prototype, built on a lengthened, widened and reinforced T-60 chassis. It mounted a Soviet 122 mm howitzer.

 

Tier VI: Mareșal  M06/(production)

This was the final modification of the Mareșal tank destroyer, built on a Romanian designed chassis, using panzer 38t suspension, armed with the Romanian 75mm Resita gun or with the less potent Pak 40 or even with the powerful Pak 43. At least 1000 were planed to be built until may 1945, but after the 23 August coup, the project was canceled. 

 

Tier VII:Hummel-TD

One vehicle was captured by the Soviets, and was transferred to Romania along with some Panthers . It was classified as tank destroyer/SPG. It was planned to mount a 75 mm or an 100 mm gun on the existing chassis, after reinforcing it.

 

 

Tier VIII:T 152

An ISU 152 bought from the Soviet Union. This is completely unoriginal, identical with the existing ISU 152.

 

Tier IX: TAA

A top secret Romanian project of the Cold War era, discovered a few years ago. A strange, small and lightweight turreted tank destroyer, mounting an unknown 100 mm autoloader gun, built especially for this tank. 

 

Tier X:Model 89

A Romanian made tank destroyer/SPG mounting a 122 mm gun. It uses a Bulgarian made Gvodzika turret. Around 40 were built. One of the most controversial tanks in the tree along with the T 34E STZ 12/15

Hope you enjoyed. I am waiting for comments about what can I change in the tree. Please don't make jokes about donkey mounted panzerfausts, etc.

 

 

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Edited by Mita2002, 23 September 2018 - 11:33 AM.


Jigabachi #2 Posted 24 June 2018 - 12:48 PM

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Before you continue... there are already multiple threads about this, so take a look at the search function. The problem is that those techtrees only feature 2-3 original and different tanks, while the rest would be boring copy&paste tanks, meaning nothing but variants of tanks that are already in the game.

People more or less agreed that a full tree doesn't work, but either a combined tree with other countries or just a few premium tanks would be nice to have.


Edited by Jigabachi, 24 June 2018 - 01:47 PM.


wEight_Tanker #3 Posted 24 June 2018 - 12:50 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 24 June 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

Before you continue... there are already multiple threads about this, so take a look at the search function. The problem is that those techtrees only feature 2-3 original and different tanks, while the rest would be nothing but boring copy&paste tanks, meaning nothing but variants of tanks that are already in the game.

People more or less agreed that a full tree doesn't work, but either a combined tree with other countries or just a few premium tanks would be nice to have.

 

Yeah cuz 50 Shermans and "Chinese" Tank Destroyers are the way It's meant to be played.

DuncaN_101 #4 Posted 24 June 2018 - 12:53 PM

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Still he's got a point. There is nothing much different those tech trees have to offer.


Mita2002 #5 Posted 24 June 2018 - 12:56 PM

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I found a t 34 with an 155 mm gun

Browarszky #6 Posted 24 June 2018 - 12:57 PM

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View PostDuncaN_101, on 24 June 2018 - 11:53 AM, said:

Still he's got a point. There is nothing much different those tech trees have to offer.

 

Maybe WG should just ad an option to 'Build your own national tech tree'. Offer a selection of historically accurate (in WG's terms) vehicles, chance to slap relevant markings on them and select say, Romanian names and faces for your crew and so on. They would perform and have the stats of the original tanks, like Soviet ones, for instance. More interesting modifications could be made available as premium tanks.

Bulldog_Drummond #7 Posted 24 June 2018 - 03:07 PM

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View PostMita2002, on 24 June 2018 - 10:52 AM, said:

 

After the disastrous Soviet offensive at Stalingrad, 

 

More commonly known, I believe, as the incredibly successful Soviet offensive at Stalingrad.

 

As others have said there are dozens of threads about Romanian tank tress, the problem being that no one can take them seriously, any more than a Belgian tank tree.



Mita2002 #8 Posted 24 June 2018 - 05:52 PM

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I think that the Belgian community has a great opinion about a Belgian tech tree :)



XxKuzkina_MatxX #9 Posted 24 June 2018 - 07:20 PM

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View PostMita2002, on 24 June 2018 - 01:56 PM, said:

I found a t 34 with an 155 mm gun

 

That would be a tank destroyer with 155 mm howitzer based on the T34 chassis right?

Mita2002 #10 Posted 24 June 2018 - 10:27 PM

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No. It would be a T34 with an enlarged turret in order to mount a derp gun(120/150mm)

Edited by Mita2002, 24 June 2018 - 10:27 PM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #11 Posted 24 June 2018 - 10:41 PM

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View PostMita2002, on 24 June 2018 - 11:27 PM, said:

No. It would be a T34 with an enlarged turret in order to mount a derp gun(120/150mm)

 

Any source/photo for this modification?



Bulldog_Drummond #12 Posted 24 June 2018 - 10:51 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 24 June 2018 - 09:41 PM, said:

 

Any source/photo for this modification?

 

Be reasonable.  This is the imaginary Romanian tank line we are talking about.

Mita2002 #13 Posted 24 June 2018 - 10:56 PM

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I found it:

Armata Română Şi Evoluția Armei Tancuri. Documente (1919 – 1945)”, Document No. 39-Editura Universității de Stat din Pitești(The publishing house of the Pitești State University) 2012

And I also found the picture of a captured T34E

 

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Edited by Mita2002, 24 June 2018 - 11:10 PM.


Spurtung #14 Posted 25 June 2018 - 01:03 AM

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View PostBrowarszky, on 24 June 2018 - 01:57 PM, said:

 

Maybe WG should just ad an option to 'Build your own national tech tree'. Offer a selection of historically accurate (in WG's terms) vehicles, chance to slap relevant markings on them and select say, Romanian names and faces for your crew and so on. They would perform and have the stats of the original tanks, like Soviet ones, for instance. More interesting modifications could be made available as premium tanks.

 

I want a Portuguese Bravia Chaimite, then.

 

 

Look how many crew members you can train in them*, it's amazing!

 

 

 

 

 

 

*there might be the need for a new major qualification, though, let's call them "guy just sitting there or something".



Renesco #15 Posted 25 June 2018 - 01:32 AM

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View PostJigabachi, on 24 June 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

Before you continue... there are already multiple threads about this, so take a look at the search function.

 

*edited*


Edited by NickMustaine, 25 June 2018 - 09:47 AM.
Discussing moderation


Mike_Mckay #16 Posted 25 June 2018 - 03:48 AM

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I thought this was going to be a joke thread with 10 photos of romany carts with guns on that they stole from tanks to weigh in as scrap

Rozbrus #17 Posted 25 June 2018 - 07:31 AM

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A little off topic, but from historical perspective, I admire Romanian people. In 1938, the darkest hour of our nation, they clearly stated that Small Entente is still valid and if Hungary goes to war with Czechoslovakia, they will honor the agreement and declare war on Hungary. 30 years later, in 1968, they refused to participate in the Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia.

Edited by Rozbrus, 25 June 2018 - 07:32 AM.


Mita2002 #18 Posted 25 June 2018 - 08:02 AM

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There is a difference between Romany and Romanian. The first is a population with origins in the Indian subcontinent, which migrated to Europe 1500 years ago. It's name came from the Romany word "rrom" which means man or husband.The second is an autochtonous population, with mixed origins, which has its name derived from the Latin term "Romanus", meaning citizen of Rome. Until the 1960's, the correct spelling was Roumania or even Rumania.

Radu_Korne #19 Posted 25 June 2018 - 05:42 PM

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View PostRozbrus, on 25 June 2018 - 08:31 AM, said:

A little off topic, but from historical perspective, I admire Romanian people. In 1938, the darkest hour of our nation, they clearly stated that Small Entente is still valid and if Hungary goes to war with Czechoslovakia, they will honor the agreement and declare war on Hungary. 30 years later, in 1968, they refused to participate in the Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia.

 

Romania was also ready to declare war to Germany/USSR in 1939 (due to an alliance from 1921) but obviously Poles were a bit more realistic about our chances and declined to active the clause in order to evacuate their troops and national treasury through a neutral (and thus safer) Romania. Check out more info about Romanian Bridgehead.

 

On topic (there were many like this one, useless as the creators never seem to understand): not enough unique vehicles for a full tech tree. And the top tiers all of you suggest are a bit too modern. A lot of useless propositions, like a German Panther or Hummel etc. Also your TD line has a friggin' SPG as a top tier, do you even know how a thing or two about armor vehicles? Gvozdika cannot stop anything larger than a bullet and it wasn't designed to engage targets with a direct line of fire, it's a mobile artillery ffs.



Kirusawa #20 Posted 25 June 2018 - 05:51 PM

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What does it matter if the put a romanian tech tree in, even if noone intrested for them. Ppl gonna keep playing the russian op vehicles.




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