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Probable use of forbidden Reload Timers from enemy Patton


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Dosjer007 #1 Posted 24 June 2018 - 10:46 PM

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So, my brother sent this replay to me asking if I could give him my opinion, on whether to send the replay to Wargaming and to report the enemy M46 Patton for use of forbidden mod Reload Timers.

 

I watched it and even though the enemy Patton was a good player, there are different repeated moments when he knows how many seconds are left before my brother is able to shoot again, so the enemy Patton manages to peak take a shoot at my brother and then fall back.  The most emblematic case is at minute 10:30. Replay is attached so watch for yourself. 

 

Now, one can argue that since the Patton is a green player he could remember the reload time. Ok. But I doubt that one would be able to not only remember the reload time but also to count backwards until the very 1-2 last second before my brother is approaching reloading 100%.

 

Regarding my brother, he has overall 1220 wn8, but his Wn8 in this last month has been 1887. While in the last week has been 1907.  So he is becoming good very fast despite not having premium time, and having basically only 3 premium tanks 2 of which bought in these 2 last months. 

 

REplay is attached. 

 

 

 

 

 

Posting replay on wotreplays because I dont see it above, and I dont know how to post it. 

 


Edited by xxTANK_Uxx, 29 June 2018 - 12:07 PM.
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Steel_Patriot #2 Posted 24 June 2018 - 10:50 PM

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Impossible to prove ,  most folks that actually grind their tanks can remember what the reload times are.

Dosjer007 #3 Posted 24 June 2018 - 10:52 PM

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View PostSteel_Patriot, on 24 June 2018 - 10:50 PM, said:

Impossible to prove ,  most folks that actually grind their tanks can remember what the reload times are.

 

Take a look, because at minute 10:30 it is very emblematic. 

Pattonizer #4 Posted 24 June 2018 - 11:19 PM

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Probably just coincidence, maybe he thought your brother has made his shot. Btw what was the HEAT loaded for when only paper tanks ahead?

Dorander #5 Posted 24 June 2018 - 11:39 PM

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There's absolutely nothing strange about that replay or the Patton's behaviour, especially that given around the 10:30 mark you indicate is somehow telling, your brother fails to fire for 30 seconds. His last shot was around the 11 minute mark and he fails to fire at anything... now I can't remember the T-10's reload off the top of my head (I think it's close to 10 secs) but it's definitely not 30 seconds. That Patton had every reason to assume your brother was loaded when he moved in, he probably did so to get damage in because at 10:30 the battle was solidly lost and it was a mop-up fest.

 

The only other moment the Patton drove forwards to fire at your brother was around the 12 minute mark, and your brother had just fired. Nothing strange about that either.

 

Also tell your brother to drink less coffee.



Xandania #6 Posted 25 June 2018 - 12:02 AM

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View PostSteel_Patriot, on 24 June 2018 - 09:50 PM, said:

Impossible to prove ,  most folks that actually grind their tanks can remember what the reload times are.

 

Uuuuuuhhhhhhhhh - I'd say that is only the case if you do not grind too many tanks :P

Sim8x8 #7 Posted 25 June 2018 - 08:17 AM

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There is nothing unusual about this replay that I can see. This is what you normally do - the enemy fires, you know he is on a reload for next 10 or so seconds, you pop out of cover, you shoot, you go back to cover. You don't need to know exactly how long the reload will take to do it.



Shivva #8 Posted 25 June 2018 - 08:31 AM

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View PostDosjer007, on 24 June 2018 - 09:46 PM, said:

So, my brother sent this replay to me asking if I could give him my opinion, on whether to send the replay to Wargaming and to report the enemy M46 Patton for use of forbidden mod Reload Timers.

 

I watched it and even though the enemy Patton was a good player, there are different repeated moments when he knows how many seconds are left before my brother is able to shoot again, so the enemy Patton manages to peak take a shoot at my brother and then fall back.  The most emblematic case is at minute 10:30. Replay is attached so watch for yourself. 

 

Now, one can argue that since the Patton is a green player he could remember the reload time. Ok. But I doubt that one would be able to not only remember the reload time but also to count backwards until the very 1-2 last second before my brother is approaching reloading 100%.

 

Regarding my brother, he has overall 1220 wn8, but his Wn8 in this last month has been 1887. While in the last week has been 1907.  So he is becoming good very fast despite not having premium time, and having basically only 3 premium tanks 2 of which bought in these 2 last months. 

 

REplay is attached. 

 

 

 

 

bit off topic but why obsess over your first accounts  'brothers' wn8 when your his recent winrate is still below 50%?...

Simeon85 #9 Posted 25 June 2018 - 08:35 AM

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You do know reload timer mods work of the base value yeh?

 

They can't account for rammer, improved rammer, vents, improved vents, BIA, food consumable, and adrenaline rush all of which can reduce reload time.

 

The mode does not know if the enemy player has some or all of those things, so cannot accurately asses reloads. T-10 stock reload is 11.79s, you can get that down to 9.37s, so nearly 2.5s difference meaning someone using one could easily be caught out by relying on the mod. 

 

It's also hardly a hard skill to know reloads of other tanks, especially popular ones like the T-10. 



Ceeb #10 Posted 25 June 2018 - 08:47 AM

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Most people base reloads on their own tanks. so its easy to guestimate with some accuracy someone else's reload.

Cannes76 #11 Posted 25 June 2018 - 08:50 AM

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What on earth does your brothers premium status have to do with the topic?? :confused:

CircleOfSorrow #12 Posted 25 June 2018 - 08:58 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 25 June 2018 - 07:35 AM, said:

You do know reload timer mods work of the base value yeh?

 

They can't account for rammer, improved rammer, vents, improved vents, BIA, food consumable, and adrenaline rush all of which can reduce reload time.

 

The mode does not know if the enemy player has some or all of those things, so cannot accurately asses reloads. T-10 stock reload is 11.79s, you can get that down to 9.37s, so nearly 2.5s difference meaning someone using one could easily be caught out by relying on the mod. 

 

It's also hardly a hard skill to know reloads of other tanks, especially popular ones like the T-10. 

 

That simply isn't true.  Reload timer mods would report the exact reload time of an opponent that was spotted because that information is known.  Later mods reported the base reload value in order to remain 'legal'.

Simeon85 #13 Posted 25 June 2018 - 09:37 AM

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View PostCircleOfSorrow, on 25 June 2018 - 08:58 AM, said:

 

That simply isn't true.  Reload timer mods would report the exact reload time of an opponent that was spotted because that information is known.  Later mods reported the base reload value in order to remain 'legal'.

 

No it isn't.

 

That information is only known by that client and the server, it would not be known by other client's, being spotted has nothing to do with it. 



OreH75 #14 Posted 25 June 2018 - 10:06 AM

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View PostDosjer007, on 24 June 2018 - 10:46 PM, said:

  So he is becoming good very fast despite not having premium time, and having basically only 3 premium tanks 2 of which bought in these 2 last months. 

There is no correlation between having premium time or tanks and becoming a good player.....



speedphlux #15 Posted 25 June 2018 - 10:13 AM

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While I don't know the reload tanks on top of my head, I'm quite quick to realize what their relative reloads are, compared to my current tank. T-10 vs M46 Patton is a clear cut case. It's around 10 seconds for the T-10, which means if we fire at each other at the same time, I'd be able to put in another shot in before having to roll back into cover to avoid the next shot from the T-10. 390 alpha + 390 alpha beats 440 alpha. Hence the saying "fight your way out of trouble".

I only get caught out by irregular guns, like an IS-3 or KV-3 with the 100mm gun. Things get trickier when facing off Mediums vs Mediums, because then stuff like Vents and Food are often part of the math that can alter the reload times enough to give a tank the advantage. I personally prefer using Optics and Fire Extinguisher on my vehicles, so in almost 90% of the cases, I avoid trying to take a 2nd shot at a Medium, while driving a Medium.

peekakilla #16 Posted 25 June 2018 - 10:17 AM

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whats the point to post it on the forum? send a ticket to the support, and they may check the player account if suspicious, this thread will be close for name and shame.

Tankyouverymuch2 #17 Posted 25 June 2018 - 10:29 AM

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View PostCircleOfSorrow, on 25 June 2018 - 08:58 AM, said:

That simply isn't true.  Reload timer mods would report the exact reload time of an opponent that was spotted because that information is known.  Later mods reported the base reload value in order to remain 'legal'.

 

View PostSimeon85, on 25 June 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

No it isn't.

 

That information is only known by that client and the server, it would not be known by other client's, being spotted has nothing to do with it. 

 

I wonder how you guys are so knowledgeable about this...


Edited by Tankyouverymuch2, 25 June 2018 - 10:30 AM.


Slyspy #18 Posted 25 June 2018 - 10:49 AM

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View PostTankyouverymuch2, on 25 June 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

 

 

I wonder how you guys are so knowledgeable about this...

 

Fairly sure Circle is wrong here so perhaps he isn't knowledgeable about it! Sim on the other hand is probably right and has applied his knowledge of how the game works.



Simeon85 #19 Posted 25 June 2018 - 10:53 AM

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View PostSlyspy, on 25 June 2018 - 10:49 AM, said:

 

Fairly sure Circle is wrong here so perhaps he isn't knowledgeable about it! Sim on the other hand is probably right and has applied his knowledge of how the game works.

 

This, I've never used a reload timer, however I've seen them used in videos and it always shows the base reload and you can also see people use them when artillery fires at them as they put an announcement in chat about it, again that is the base reload. Like people say 'X arty has just hit me and is now reloading for Y seconds', the Y seconds is the base reload of that particular arty.

 

 



jabster #20 Posted 25 June 2018 - 10:56 AM

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View PostSlyspy, on 25 June 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:

 

Fairly sure Circle is wrong here so perhaps he isn't knowledgeable about it! Sim on the other hand is probably right and has applied his knowledge of how the game works.

 

 My memory is a bit hazy on this but I thought that at one time the client was told more information (equipment mounted maybe) that it needed so a reload timer could be more accurate than just the base value. I also thought that any dynamic form of reload timers was now classed as illegal by WG. 




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