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winrate manipulated


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fartyarty #41 Posted 28 June 2018 - 04:08 PM

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Is win rate manipulated?

 

A tricky question......but yes it is.

 

Reasons....everyone seems to have a similar win rate (47-53)% for the non unicums. (unicums get a higher win rate because they pay more to play)

 

The random argument is rubbish. Computers, no matter how advanced cannot make random decisions, everything they do has to come from a predetermined set of parameters, so things like mm and 'rng' are not random events.

In order to control the outcome of battles the mm can easily chose 15 good players against 15 bad players or any number of each and give it's choice of winner a better set of 'rng' parameters, especially higher damage, greater chance of mode damage ect. also the experienced players amongst you can recognize which team has the better tanks.

The fact that the most common outcome of a battle is usually 15-5 or less as opposed to 15-6 or higher is another giveaway.

 

So why manipulate?

 

Well the main reason is player numbers....people who are not very good and as a result would have a low win rate would usually stop playing as game enjoyment would be low, and as most people realize, active player numbers seem to be extremely important to games such as this.

 

I however don't give a hoot about win rates,   wn8 ratings or anything else.

I play the the game because I enjoy it.

I know I am no where near the best player in the game (probably in the bottom half and dropping like a stone) so there it is.

 



Nazgarth #42 Posted 28 June 2018 - 04:21 PM

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View Postfartyarty, on 28 June 2018 - 04:08 PM, said:

Is win rate manipulated?

 

A tricky question......but yes it is.

 

Reasons....everyone seems to have a similar win rate (47-53)% for the non unicums. (unicums get a higher win rate because they pay more to play)

 

The random argument is rubbish. Computers, no matter how advanced cannot make random decisions, everything they do has to come from a predetermined set of parameters, so things like mm and 'rng' are not random events.

In order to control the outcome of battles the mm can easily chose 15 good players against 15 bad players or any number of each and give it's choice of winner a better set of 'rng' parameters, especially higher damage, greater chance of mode damage ect. also the experienced players amongst you can recognize which team has the better tanks.

The fact that the most common outcome of a battle is usually 15-5 or less as opposed to 15-6 or higher is another giveaway.

 

So why manipulate?

 

Well the main reason is player numbers....people who are not very good and as a result would have a low win rate would usually stop playing as game enjoyment would be low, and as most people realize, active player numbers seem to be extremely important to games such as this.

 

I however don't give a hoot about win rates,   wn8 ratings or anything else.

I play the the game because I enjoy it.

I know I am no where near the best player in the game (probably in the bottom half and dropping like a stone) so there it is.

 

 

No doubt you can supply the reams of evidence that proves unicums pay on average more than others, as well as the other wild claims you have made here.

Enforcer1975 #43 Posted 28 June 2018 - 04:36 PM

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View Postfartyarty, on 28 June 2018 - 04:08 PM, said:

(47-53)% for the non unicums. (unicums get a higher win rate because they pay more to play)

 

Ofc this comment can only come from a player who is around average to sub average...

Care to share proof how many very good players pay to win? Because from the looks of it it's rather the very bad players who pay so they are able to fail their way to high tiers and keep playing there. We all get the same MM in the long run and the fact that very good players can still keep their stats despite having a majority of players being bots is proof enough that they are good. 



MicoMorifi #44 Posted 28 June 2018 - 07:49 PM

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Im gonna be unicum some day :)

OIias_of_Sunhillow #45 Posted 28 June 2018 - 07:52 PM

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View PostMicoMorifi, on 28 June 2018 - 06:49 PM, said:

Im gonna be unicum some day :)

 

It won't be a Wednesday.

BravelyRanAway #46 Posted 28 June 2018 - 07:52 PM

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View Postfartyarty, on 28 June 2018 - 03:08 PM, said:

Is win rate manipulated?

 

A tricky question......but yes it is.

 

 

I know I am no where near the best player in the game (probably in the bottom half and dropping like a stone) so there it is.

 

So, on one hand you say that win rate is manipulated.

But then you say you are no where near the best player in the game as if you had some input into the result you get when you play.

So, which is it?



m1x_angelico #47 Posted 28 June 2018 - 08:32 PM

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View PostMicoMorifi, on 27 June 2018 - 06:28 PM, said:

I have 64% win rate in last seven days. Yesterday i had 80%, but today i couldnt win first couple of games. Teams are just awfull so is it possible that wg somehow manipulate teams to keep your win rate down? Of course i wont let this bad session to happen  Im pissed off wg right now so i decided to play e25 only and of course improve win rate. How about that wg ? What you gonna do now? I can win games all by my self now :)

 

Another tread of someone pointing out to an issue and other players ridiculing it.

 

The fact that it appears "winrate" is rigged is because this game has no skill based MM. This means that there is a certain probability that you will find yourself game after game in a team that is very bad (which you mostly notice) or a team that is very good (you don't notice this as much). Sometimes, this streaks of being placed in a good or a bad team can be quite big (e.g. 10 matches in a bad team). If you play 1-2 hours and this streak comes along, it appears to you that MM is manipulated. where in fact there is definitely an issue with MM, but there is no malicious manipulation against any player (at least there is no proof of that so far).

 

Hence, this is not made intentional to make you lose, because you must remember, for each bad team you are placed in, someone random is placed in a good team. For example, theoretically, some player can have win streaks for several days, and he must think that it's his lucky week, but in fact, it's far from it, because on the other hand, someone like you is having a pretty sheety week.

 

If and when WG introduces some form of skilled MM, we will see less and less of such occurrences and players getting the feeling that MM is rigged against them.



MicoMorifi #48 Posted 28 June 2018 - 09:30 PM

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How do you like my 72,4% today wg? How u gonna rig my e25 11/10 today :) a ? Throw me in more reds baby ::izmena:


Edited by MicoMorifi, 28 June 2018 - 09:31 PM.


BravelyRanAway #49 Posted 28 June 2018 - 09:39 PM

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View Postm1x_angelico, on 28 June 2018 - 07:32 PM, said:

 

Another tread of someone pointing out to an issue and other players ridiculing it.

 

View PostCannes76, on 27 June 2018 - 05:45 PM, said:

Your internet sarcasm meter is broken.

 



NUKLEAR_SLUG #50 Posted 28 June 2018 - 09:51 PM

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View Postfartyarty, on 28 June 2018 - 04:08 PM, said:

Is win rate manipulated?

 

A tricky question......but yes it is.

 

<snip>

 

So why manipulate?

 

Well the main reason is player numbers....people who are not very good and as a result would have a low win rate would usually stop playing as game enjoyment would be low, and as most people realize, active player numbers seem to be extremely important to games such as this.

 

If WG were rigging the WR to keep players active then they'd being giving all the bad players better win rates in order to keep them playing the game, the fact that the bad players have bad win rates shows that WG are not rigging the WR.

 

 So congrats, you proposed a theory and then promptly proved it wrong with your own argument.

AdsterMFC #51 Posted 28 June 2018 - 09:58 PM

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I have absolute proof they manipulate win rate. Of course because I am so intelligent they need to find a way to hide this from me and so they only manipulate my win rate lower each time I am drunk. When completely sh!t-faced last weekend they were sneaky and lowered my win rate by more than 5%. True story.

BravelyRanAway #52 Posted 28 June 2018 - 10:04 PM

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View PostAdsterMFC, on 28 June 2018 - 08:58 PM, said:

I have absolute proof they manipulate win rate. Of course because I am so intelligent they need to find a way to hide this from me and so they only manipulate my win rate lower each time I am drunk. When completely sh!t-faced last weekend they were sneaky and lowered my win rate by more than 5%. True story.

 

:teethhappy: Now that I can believe.........spent all my +1's earlier.:great:

juonimies #53 Posted 28 June 2018 - 11:56 PM

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View PostMicoMorifi, on 27 June 2018 - 05:28 PM, said:

I have 64% win rate in last seven days. Yesterday i had 80%, but today i couldnt win first couple of games. Teams are just awfull so is it possible that wg somehow manipulate teams to keep your win rate down? Of course i wont let this bad session to happen  Im pissed off wg right now so i decided to play e25 only and of course improve win rate. How about that wg ? What you gonna do now? I can win games all by my self now :)

 

Only 46000 games to realize this...

TheComfyChair #54 Posted 29 June 2018 - 12:40 AM

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Jigabachi #55 Posted 29 June 2018 - 12:48 AM

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View Postfartyarty, on 28 June 2018 - 04:08 PM, said:

Is win rate manipulated?

 

A tricky question......but yes it is.

 

Reasons....everyone seems to have a similar win rate (47-53)% for the non unicums. (unicums get a higher win rate because they pay more to play)

 

The random argument is rubbish. Computers, no matter how advanced cannot make random decisions, everything they do has to come from a predetermined set of parameters, so things like mm and 'rng' are not random events.

In order to control the outcome of battles the mm can easily chose 15 good players against 15 bad players or any number of each and give it's choice of winner a better set of 'rng' parameters, especially higher damage, greater chance of mode damage ect. also the experienced players amongst you can recognize which team has the better tanks.

The fact that the most common outcome of a battle is usually 15-5 or less as opposed to 15-6 or higher is another giveaway.

 

So why manipulate?

 

Well the main reason is player numbers....people who are not very good and as a result would have a low win rate would usually stop playing as game enjoyment would be low, and as most people realize, active player numbers seem to be extremely important to games such as this.

 

I however don't give a hoot about win rates,   wn8 ratings or anything else.

I play the the game because I enjoy it.

I know I am no where near the best player in the game (probably in the bottom half and dropping like a stone) so there it is.

That's the same load of rubbish we've read 100 times before. And of course without any evidence. 

1. Sooo... tell me, how the hell is the fact that the normal winrates are between 47 and 55% proof of the game being rigged? Did/do you have math at school?

2. How exactly does the fact that we have a simulated randomness imply that the game is rigged?

3. How exactly does the fact that they could theoretically rig the game imply that it IS rigged?

4. How exactly does the average outcome of a match imply that the game is rigged? And where did you get that number from?

5. You are a plain average player, but how exactly do we know that you aren't a botlevel player who got the game rigged in his favor?



Baldrickk #56 Posted 29 June 2018 - 07:27 AM

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View Postfartyarty, on 28 June 2018 - 04:08 PM, said:

Is win rate manipulated?

 

A tricky question......but yes it is.

 

Reasons....everyone seems to have a similar win rate (47-53)% for the non unicums. (unicums get a higher win rate because they pay more to play)

 

The random argument is rubbish. Computers, no matter how advanced cannot make random decisions, everything they do has to come from a predetermined set of parameters, so things like mm and 'rng' are not random events.

In order to control the outcome of battles the mm can easily chose 15 good players against 15 bad players or any number of each and give it's choice of winner a better set of 'rng' parameters, especially higher damage, greater chance of mode damage ect. also the experienced players amongst you can recognize which team has the better tanks.

The fact that the most common outcome of a battle is usually 15-5 or less as opposed to 15-6 or higher is another giveaway.

 

So why manipulate?

 

Well the main reason is player numbers....people who are not very good and as a result would have a low win rate would usually stop playing as game enjoyment would be low, and as most people realize, active player numbers seem to be extremely important to games such as this.

 

I however don't give a hoot about win rates,   wn8 ratings or anything else.

I play the the game because I enjoy it.

I know I am no where near the best player in the game (probably in the bottom half and dropping like a stone) so there it is.

 

The randomness in the MM is from many people hitting battle at different times.

No need for an RNG

 

Modern RNG are practically indistinguishable from true random.

At that point does it matter if it is or not?

 

 



m1x_angelico #57 Posted 29 June 2018 - 08:06 AM

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View PostBaldrickk, on 29 June 2018 - 07:27 AM, said:

Modern RNG are practically indistinguishable from true random.

At that point does it matter if it is or not?

 



Slyspy #58 Posted 29 June 2018 - 08:47 AM

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View Postfartyarty, on 28 June 2018 - 04:08 PM, said:

Is win rate manipulated?

 

A tricky question......but yes it is.

 

Reasons....everyone seems to have a similar win rate (47-53)% for the non unicums. (unicums get a higher win rate because they pay more to play)

 

 

 

 

My maths isn't good. Could you show me the maths governing the expected WR spread of a 15vs15 no-respawn game mode? Thanks in advance.



jabster #59 Posted 29 June 2018 - 10:20 AM

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View Postfartyarty, on 28 June 2018 - 03:08 PM, said:

Is win rate manipulated?

 

A tricky question......but yes it is.

 

Reasons....everyone seems to have a similar win rate (47-53)% for the non unicums. (unicums get a higher win rate because they pay more to play)

 

The random argument is rubbish. Computers, no matter how advanced cannot make random decisions, everything they do has to come from a predetermined set of parameters, so things like mm and 'rng' are not random events.

In order to control the outcome of battles the mm can easily chose 15 good players against 15 bad players or any number of each and give it's choice of winner a better set of 'rng' parameters, especially higher damage, greater chance of mode damage ect. also the experienced players amongst you can recognize which team has the better tanks.

The fact that the most common outcome of a battle is usually 15-5 or less as opposed to 15-6 or higher is another giveaway.

 

So why manipulate?

 

Well the main reason is player numbers....people who are not very good and as a result would have a low win rate would usually stop playing as game enjoyment would be low, and as most people realize, active player numbers seem to be extremely important to games such as this.

 

I however don't give a hoot about win rates,   wn8 ratings or anything else.

I play the the game because I enjoy it.

I know I am no where near the best player in the game (probably in the bottom half and dropping like a stone) so there it is.

 

 

Firstly the skill of your team mates compared to the enemy is effectively random as the MM doesn’t care about skill. You’d get the same if you compared age or height.There’s no need for a RNG to do that. Secondly the fact that the RNG is highly likely to be deterministic, and not true random, has no bearing on whether you can manipulate the end result of the RNG. Why would you think that just because you used a true RNG source you can’t manipulate the result?

Edited by jabster, 29 June 2018 - 12:03 PM.


unhappy_bunny #60 Posted 29 June 2018 - 11:16 AM

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View Postfartyarty, on 28 June 2018 - 04:08 PM, said:

Is win rate manipulated?

 

A tricky question......but yes it is.

 

Reasons....everyone seems to have a similar win rate (47-53)% for the non unicums. (unicums get a higher win rate because they pay more to play)

 

The random argument is rubbish. Computers, no matter how advanced cannot make random decisions, everything they do has to come from a predetermined set of parameters, so things like mm and 'rng' are not random events.

In order to control the outcome of battles the mm can easily chose 15 good players against 15 bad players or any number of each and give it's choice of winner a better set of 'rng' parameters, especially higher damage, greater chance of mode damage ect. also the experienced players amongst you can recognize which team has the better tanks.

The fact that the most common outcome of a battle is usually 15-5 or less as opposed to 15-6 or higher is another giveaway.

 

So why manipulate?

 

Well the main reason is player numbers....people who are not very good and as a result would have a low win rate would usually stop playing as game enjoyment would be low, and as most people realize, active player numbers seem to be extremely important to games such as this.

 

I however don't give a hoot about win rates,   wn8 ratings or anything else.

I play the the game because I enjoy it.

I know I am no where near the best player in the game (probably in the bottom half and dropping like a stone) so there it is.

 

 

So do you know how WG produce a "random" number? I don't.

One way it could be done is, at the moment a random number is required, the program looks at the system clock, retrieves the time in seconds to 5 or 10 decimal places and selects the last 2 digits. This gives a value between 0 and 99. That is pretty close to being random. Now that could be used to select a player from the battle queue ( repeat for the remaining 29 players) or it could be used to provide a value for RNG to determine the outcome of a players shot. Of course, player selection, could just be as simple as the order in which they join the queue, which is again pretty close to random.

Any manipulation would be to ignore such a method and use a pre-defined value instead. Is that what you are saying is happening? If so, have you any evidence? Or can you explain what leads you to think this?






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