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Conqueror and S.Conqueror


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MD_Titus #21 Posted 29 June 2018 - 06:21 PM

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How about no?

pecopad #22 Posted 29 June 2018 - 06:24 PM

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View Postgofastandrush, on 29 June 2018 - 06:10 PM, said:

Please, what is this point regarding the hitbox ?
Does-it concern other tanks ?

 

There are problems in the models of the tanks, the hitboxes in some tanks, that make them larger than what they are in reality.

 

The ones I found so far are:

 

Conqueror mantlet, just near the gun, comander hatch, front wheel sprocket that allows you to be tracked for damage with frontal shots. Got shot for damage on the gun nozzle also, but very few times.

Most of the soviet tanks. Between tracks and spaced armour, and some of the wheels don't absorv shots, which makes it hard to side scrape, if not impossible in most tanks.

T95 and Patriot : Top of the tracks,frontal, you can track and do damage. T95 lower plate on the cosmetics that are hanging there (winch), you can and will be penned, for example by Skorpions...

Mauschen: lower plate toe supports.

 

There are opposite problems with hitboxes miss placements, for example with the Skoda T50  shoulders, where you cannot pen with gold ammo of the Conqueror, and which should be an auto-pen.

 

This are the ones I remember, but since I have battle hits installed, I always review the shots, and believe me that there are many weird ones, that I think are related with Hitboxes and models. Started happening with patch 1.0, before that most of those weird shots would have an explanation



NoobySkooby #23 Posted 29 June 2018 - 07:14 PM

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View PostZinomov, on 29 June 2018 - 04:29 PM, said:

i see that the people on this forum are as sarcastic as ever
fine do what you want

 

Sarcastic, oh man that is way too polite, but in my case, if you really want a crap conqueror, just let me take it out:trollface: 

 

 

Now watch the sarcasm flow, sometimes it is even funny


Edited by NoobySkooby, 29 June 2018 - 07:24 PM.


Cannes76 #24 Posted 29 June 2018 - 07:15 PM

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Statistics say that they only overperform for good -> great players, which means a high skill ceiling tank, not an OP one.

PoIestar #25 Posted 29 June 2018 - 11:57 PM

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Nerfing British tanks by removing gun depression? Nah, gun depression is a trade-off for 90% of the British tech tree. Same goes for DPM and pen, with the low alpha and variable armor models compensating for that.

 

So while I agree that the Super Conqueror is slightly too strong, the changes need to be in the armor model. Because in every other measurable way it's the very definition of a British top tier tank.



TheComfyChair #26 Posted 30 June 2018 - 01:18 AM

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Argedeava #27 Posted 30 June 2018 - 05:55 AM

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View Postsnowlywhite, on 29 June 2018 - 05:01 PM, said:

 

wow,  the guy sure is one dimensional in his nation picks =))))

 

He`s here to compensate me statistics wise.

LordMuffin #28 Posted 30 June 2018 - 07:39 AM

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View PostZinomov, on 29 June 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

Many of you kept crying about the 268 v4 beign OP but I must stress that the Conqueror and its big brother the S.Conqueror are beyond OP and many people choose to grind this branch simply because they can over perform in these top tier heavies, and we saw many replies about these tanks so none can deny the facts here, this is simply outrageous and that is for several reasons, thus here are the nerfs that i'm suggesting :

Conqueror (IX) :
Remove the turret shield from the upgraded turret

change the gun depression from 10° to 7°
Change the armor on the side cheeks from 304.8 mm to something like  208.4 mm

S.Conqueror (X) :
Change the gun depression from 10° to 7°
Change the armor on the side cheeks from 304.8 mm to something like 237.8 mm

The 268 v4 is OP.

 

I don't agree that Conq and SC is OP, but I do agree with the idea that they, together with quite a few other T10 tanks and some T9 tanks should get hit by nerf bat.

 

View PostCannes76, on 29 June 2018 - 07:15 PM, said:

Statistics say that they only overperform for good -> great players, which means a high skill ceiling tank, not an OP one.

Which means it is still a problem if the over performance exceed like 3%

 


 

ZDN #29 Posted 30 June 2018 - 08:38 AM

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S conq just has the turet.

 

The guns have Low alpha ,and the rest is the rest.Not OP.

 

Brit tanks change from tier 7,from a push tanks,that can bounce  when used right,to a turet hull down tank,that has no lower armor and gets ammo rack and fire set easy.

The trade is for a strong turet with a good gun dep.But low alpha and normal rof.

 

A good player can play the worst tanks very good.That  doesn't mean it is OP



TankkiPoju #30 Posted 30 June 2018 - 09:34 AM

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View Postpecopad, on 29 June 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

Conqueror tier IX OP.... LOL

 

Worst tier 9 heavy tank, with tank curves worst than the tier 7 Black Prince, and someone thinks that this tank is OP.

 

Slow paper tank, you can pen an Hull Down Conqueror on the turret with almost all tier 8 tanks shooting gold, not to mention when you are not hull down, where any tank you face can pen 90% of the tank.

 

Don't forget Conqueror is the weakest tank in the game against HE! That's what you said the last time :)

 



Dava_117 #31 Posted 30 June 2018 - 10:14 AM

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View PostZDN, on 30 June 2018 - 08:38 AM, said:

S conq just has the turet.

 

The guns have Low alpha ,and the rest is the rest.Not OP.

 

Brit tanks change from tier 7,from a push tanks,that can bounce  when used right,to a turet hull down tank,that has no lower armor and gets ammo rack and fire set easy.

The trade is for a strong turet with a good gun dep.But low alpha and normal rof.

 

A good player can play the worst tanks very good.That  doesn't mean it is OP

 

The problem is that after the buff, all those tanks got also an UFP buff. Caern is around 220 effective, Conqueror is close to E75 UFP and SConqueror has 30mm spaced armour over it.all those tanks have good turret, nice UFP and butter LFP. This means they are no more forced to hulldown, but just hiding the LFP can be enought. Not really close to the "Strong turret with bad hull" tanks like T32.

Simeon85 #32 Posted 30 June 2018 - 02:09 PM

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View Postares354, on 29 June 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

 

Conqueror was doing fine with HD buff to turret, that shield he got is unhistorical and not needed. 

300 mm thick armor part added on hull are fake AF in historical tank, so yea. 

Conqueror should be set back to his previous state, after HD changes. With better dpm and mobility. 

 

 

Well I never felt the old Conqueror needed changing, the side weakspot bits do make sense though because they were just annoying random pens whilst sidescraping. Doesn;t have a huge impact on the tanks performance because no one ever aimed at them, just makes the tank annoying.

 

Like I said above though in the current meta both tanks are fine and well balanced, any changes would only be if other powerful tier 9 and 10 tanks got toned down a little, otherwise you would just make these two tanks weaker for no real reason. 

 

View PostDava_117, on 30 June 2018 - 10:14 AM, said:

The problem is that after the buff, all those tanks got also an UFP buff. Caern is around 220 effective, Conqueror is close to E75 UFP and SConqueror has 30mm spaced armour over it.all those tanks have good turret, nice UFP and butter LFP. This means they are no more forced to hulldown, but just hiding the LFP can be enought. Not really close to the "Strong turret with bad hull" tanks like T32.
 

 

Conqueror UFP is not E75 levels, it's abour 240 effective, E75 is more like 260-270 effective and it is able to angle more due to the better side armour.

 

UFPs don't matter hugely when both tanks have such terrible lower plates that are so big. I mean E75 lower plate is like 230 effective and you can angle to about 240 - 250, which means most tier 8s and several tier 9s can barely pen an E75 anywhere frontally and that allows you to bully and charge people down.

 

Conqueror lower plate even at extreme angles is easy pennable.

 

Really the UFPs only help for the odd panic shot and when they are using the gun depression if you peak with more than just the turret. 

 

T32 also doesn't have a bad hull for a tier 8, it's about 185 effective and lower plate is similar, angled you can get about 200 effective. 


Edited by Simeon85, 30 June 2018 - 02:16 PM.


snowlywhite #33 Posted 30 June 2018 - 03:46 PM

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Block Quote

 The problem is that after the buff, all those tanks got also an UFP buff. Caern is around 220 effective, Conqueror is close to E75 UFP and SConqueror has 30mm spaced armour over it.all those tanks have good turret, nice UFP and butter LFP. This means they are no more forced to hulldown, but just hiding the LFP can be enought. Not really close to the "Strong turret with bad hull" tanks like T32.

 

conq ufp is penable by tier 8 with gold('xcept lights). All have crap side armor, so angling... not really. All have HE-able back. It's a heavy tank in the end; it gotta have some armor...

 

E75 level - seriously? E75 isn't pennable by tier 8 with gold if he angles properly; even if he doesn't hide the lower plate. Or, he's pennable with less than 50% chance on lower plate.

 

it's very one dimensional - strong turret, stay hull down. Definitely it's not the armor that makes the tank. Fight it on it's terms and you'll lose. Refuse his terms and he has to move - you win. And that's valid for SConq.

 

Conq is rather mediocre tank. But it's ok, as Caern is a good tank for it's tier, so fair enough.

 

p.s. - I don't own either, I'm not interested in playing heavies outside missions(and those are crap for missions). I've met them 1000 bazillion times(especially now with ToTT) and never had any problems with them. I know when I can engage them, I know when I can't.



LordMuffin #34 Posted 30 June 2018 - 04:17 PM

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View Postsnowlywhite, on 30 June 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

 

conq ufp is penable by tier 8 with gold('xcept lights). All have crap side armor, so angling... not really. All have HE-able back. It's a heavy tank in the end; it gotta have some armor...

 

You know that T8 premium ammo have a pen range from 340 for the highest, down to 250 for the lowest.

 

It is much better to say how much Penetration is needed, since saying pennable by T8 premium ammo is extremely uncommon precise (ranging from 340 to 250).

 

 

And E75 is pennable by T8 premium shells no matter which angle, since some T8 have 340 pen with their premium shells.


Edited by LordMuffin, 30 June 2018 - 04:18 PM.


TiMeK1ll3r #35 Posted 30 June 2018 - 04:26 PM

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Why would you even downgrade the Conqueror?

I can understand the S. Conqueror, bu the Conqueror...

I speak as a f2p user and i am grinding the Conqueror, I'm still with the stock gun, i have the upgraded turret, but from what i can see the difference between the 2 tanks turres are big.

And you have to take into account that when you play the Conqueror you mostly play with tier X, that can go right through your gun mantlet like butter, and in most cases you just get shot mostly with premium ammos anyway, so the turret is really pointless. Hell i was so confident with the upgraded turret that i went hulldown against a Lowe and he penetrated every shot (with non premium shells) just by shooting at the gun mantlet and avoiding every other part of the turret.

 

And hell no, changing the S. Conqueror, don't you even dare to think about it! I already went through a really painful experience when i grinded my [edited]off to get the T110E5 just to look at it 1 month later with a brutal nerf...I don't even want to think about going at it again with the S. Conqueror...

 

And btw gun depression is probably the only thing that saved me in many matches because if i did not had it i would had died almost instantly because the turret is so big and weak at certain angles, and well, since most of players just load premium ammos.



snowlywhite #36 Posted 30 June 2018 - 04:40 PM

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Block Quote

 You know that T8 premium ammo have a pen range from 340 for the highest, down to 250 for the lowest.

 

yes, and with 250 you pen the ufp. Ok, 80% of the cases or so(obviously, rng dependent).

 

Block Quote

 And E75 is pennable by T8 premium shells no matter which angle, since some T8 have 340 pen with their premium shells.

 

it's pennable by a couple of tier 8s which didn't have their gold ammo reworked. By the vast majority - no.

 

p.s. - vast majority of meds have gold pen floating around 250-270(tds don't matter - they're supposed to pen a same tier tank). Which is generally enough to pen the ufp of a conq(again - rng dependent) while you'd better hit that lower plate on E75 as long as he's angled properly.


Edited by snowlywhite, 30 June 2018 - 04:45 PM.


ares354 #37 Posted 01 July 2018 - 02:06 PM

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Block Quote

 

Well I never felt the old Conqueror needed changing, the side weakspot bits do make sense though because they were just annoying random pens whilst sidescraping. Doesn;t have a huge impact on the tanks performance because no one ever aimed at them, just makes the tank annoying.

 

Like I said above though in the current meta both tanks are fine and well balanced, any changes would only be if other powerful tier 9 and 10 tanks got toned down a little, otherwise you would just make these two tanks weaker for no real reason. 

 

I agree, HD conqueror felt good. I do think side was not problem if player didint try to sidescrape from very close range. 

And I do agree, AMX 4 51 have better turret from front, mantlet don't have 217mm spot, in exchange for two cupolas unlike on Conqueror.

WG did powercreep a bit Conqueror and E75 with that tier IX French HT. Hull is as good as E75 or even better on lower plate, plus turret front is a bit better then Conqueror, mantlet area for sure.

Conqueror did get more armor on hull after revisited UK top HT. He use to have 130 is upper plate, now its 154, and effective is 255-260. Plus -10 degree gun dep, it push up to E75 level.


Edited by ares354, 01 July 2018 - 02:07 PM.


Geno1isme #38 Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:38 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 30 June 2018 - 05:17 PM, said:

You know that T8 premium ammo have a pen range from 340 for the highest, down to 250 for the lowest.

 

Actually T8 premium pen gets even lower, like IS-M only has 240mm, and some of the lights barely exceed 200mm (but of course those aren't meant to engage a T9 heavy frontally).

pecopad #39 Posted 02 July 2018 - 12:11 PM

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View PostTiMeK1ll3r, on 30 June 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

Why would you even downgrade the Conqueror?

I can understand the S. Conqueror, bu the Conqueror...

I speak as a f2p user and i am grinding the Conqueror, I'm still with the stock gun, i have the upgraded turret, but from what i can see the difference between the 2 tanks turres are big.

And you have to take into account that when you play the Conqueror you mostly play with tier X, that can go right through your gun mantlet like butter, and in most cases you just get shot mostly with premium ammos anyway, so the turret is really pointless. Hell i was so confident with the upgraded turret that i went hulldown against a Lowe and he penetrated every shot (with non premium shells) just by shooting at the gun mantlet and avoiding every other part of the turret.

 

And hell no, changing the S. Conqueror, don't you even dare to think about it! I already went through a really painful experience when i grinded my [edited]off to get the T110E5 just to look at it 1 month later with a brutal nerf...I don't even want to think about going at it again with the S. Conqueror...

 

And btw gun depression is probably the only thing that saved me in many matches because if i did not had it i would had died almost instantly because the turret is so big and weak at certain angles, and well, since most of players just load premium ammos.

 

Been saying this for ages in this forum.

 

It was the one of the most frustrating grinds I ever did, if not the worst grind, because unlike the St.Emil it never gets any better.

 

Good news is that the S. Conq is Canaeveron good or better... its really a good tank and a joy to play.

 

 



Metalsniper #40 Posted 02 July 2018 - 02:08 PM

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View PostZinomov, on 29 June 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

Many of you kept crying about the 268 v4 beign OP but I must stress that the Conqueror and its big brother the S.Conqueror are beyond OP and many people choose to grind this branch simply because they can over perform in these top tier heavies, and we saw many replies about these tanks so none can deny the facts here, this is simply outrageous and that is for several reasons, thus here are the nerfs that i'm suggesting :

Conqueror (IX) :
Remove the turret shield from the upgraded turret

change the gun depression from 10° to 7°
Change the armor on the side cheeks from 304.8 mm to something like  208.4 mm

S.Conqueror (X) :
Change the gun depression from 10° to 7°
Change the armor on the side cheeks from 304.8 mm to something like 237.8 mm

 

lol how about just delete the british tanks? Theres hardly any good ones and the ones that are you want nerfed. Get outta here, its not even op. l2p




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