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Tiger 2 and the symptoms of power creep


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Poll: Tiger 2 and the symptoms of power creep (85 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Is the Tiger 2 underperforming and in need of a buff?

  1. YES - the buff you suggested (48 votes [56.47%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 56.47%

  2. YES - Some kind of other buff [please be specific in the comments] (24 votes [28.24%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 28.24%

  3. NO - its fine as it is (4 votes [4.71%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.71%

  4. indiferent (9 votes [10.59%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.59%

What is you stance on power creep [performance of new vehicles] in general?

  1. It is a problem and needs to be adressed [buff bad tanks/ nerf OP tanks] (70 votes [82.35%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 82.35%

  2. Its not a problem (5 votes [5.88%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.88%

  3. indiferent (10 votes [11.76%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.76%

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banjoman150 #1 Posted 30 June 2018 - 07:33 PM

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Its a sad story this one. The story about a once competitive heavy tank that could hold its own.

It never was overpowered but a decent tank to play.


 

Nowadays its just bad. In every possible way other than its accuaracy.


 

Its mobility is mediocre at best  because its so heavy but its armor is bad. Tier 7 tanks can penetrate its turret front and in some cases even tier 6 TDs.

The hull is also pretty weak as 80mm of side armor are very vulnerable if you angle it wich you have to do because the lower plate is also very weak.

Its pretty easy to hit the tracks and damage the tank with the same shot.


 

The gun is ok. It has decent penetration with very good accuracy. Its the DPM thats letting you down. It has a ROF of only 5.77 wich is underpowered if you consider the rest of its characteristics.


 

By increasing its ROF to around 6.1 it would have high DPM giving it a redeeming quality.


 

The armor and engine are pretty much historical wich is why i would not change it


 

It is not only my perception of the tank its a fact that its underpowered. Its winrate is 48% wich is the lowest out of all Tier 8 tanks.

Even the tank curves on wot-news.com show that this tank is underperforming not matter wich interpolation method you choose.

This leads me to beliefe that my assessment of this tank is very much true.


 

I would like to see WG improving some of the old vehicles that are generally not quite competetive anymore. The Tiger 2 is an extreme example of powercreep and i would really love to see it buffed on par with

the current meta


 

Please take part in the poll


 


 



Balc0ra #2 Posted 30 June 2018 - 07:53 PM

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View Postbanjoman150, on 30 June 2018 - 07:33 PM, said:

Its a sad story this one. The story about a once competitive heavy tank that could hold its own.

It never was overpowered but a decent tank to play.

 

Competitive? Well not sure about that, even back when I did grind it in 2012 it was lacking a little. Tho, not long after that they did buff it by removing the MG port weakspot and buffing the cupola armor. So it would not get slapped by meds that badly. 

 

It's always been a support HT. Just less then the Tiger I before it. IMO they simply need to buff the DPM a tiny bit along with a rear side armor buff. DPM is still not bad for tier 8 HT. But considering that it's no brawler, giving him a bit faster ROF would help. Along with a rear armor buff so he can hold a corner a bit better like his premium brother. 

 

Mobility is actually fine. Not fast, but not slow either. I don't play mine often anymore for different reasons. But if they made it better at the support role like they did for the Tiger 1, then I might play it more. Dispersion and aim time is actually rather good. Mine has 0.29 dispersion now. So he can do the support role well as is. But a bit faster ROF would make all the difference in that role IMO. 

 



AXIS_OF_RESISTANCE #3 Posted 30 June 2018 - 07:55 PM

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german tanks in 2k18 :teethhappy:


Edited by AXIS_OF_RESISTANCE, 30 June 2018 - 07:56 PM.


tnk_mstr_99 #4 Posted 30 June 2018 - 07:56 PM

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Sure, they'll split it in the Tiger II that you already have and the Tiger II-E12 which has double armor and only costs a paltry sum of about 63 Euros.

AliceUnchained #5 Posted 30 June 2018 - 09:11 PM

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View Posttnk_mstr_99, on 30 June 2018 - 07:56 PM, said:

Sure, they'll split it in the Tiger II that you already have and the Tiger II-E12 which has double armor and only costs a paltry sum of about 63 Euros.

 

If it would keep the same looks, I might actually even get it. Hmm....

Cuck0osNest #6 Posted 30 June 2018 - 09:16 PM

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Even IS-M penetrates it? Idk if IS-M have same dt-25t guns really. Ofc autoloaders make every classic tank gameplay horrible. But as i know damage per shot is comfortable still for Tiger2, isnt it? 

 

Ye that feeling after playing tanks liek Caernarvon, when you try TIger2 or Cent.1 after it you really feel terribly slow reload time.


Edited by Cuck0osNest, 30 June 2018 - 09:22 PM.


Flid_Merchant #7 Posted 30 June 2018 - 09:20 PM

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I liked it when I played it 2 years ago, but now we have tier 8 meds with 220+ pen, which will go straight through the front upper plate with just a slight favourable angle. You can say the armour values are historical but this is meaningless if penetration values are not, from what I have seen most penetration values in game are higher than their real life equivalents.

Dava_117 #8 Posted 30 June 2018 - 11:18 PM

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IMO dpm is not a problem. The thing that I really miss is mobility. Really, my KV-4 has tons of armour and still have better acceleration! Tiger2 is too sluggish for the ammount of armour it has. The gun is godlike, the armour may be used in sidescraping or from distance, but you can't actually maximize those strenghts because you're slower than a superheavy! I heard that back then it had a 3rd, more powerful engine. I would firstly add it back. Then we can talk about DPM and other things

Holdes #9 Posted 01 July 2018 - 06:59 AM

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Tiger II is fine compared to Black Prince (tier for tier). My Gawd, that thing is awful.

Edited by Holdes, 01 July 2018 - 07:00 AM.


Kirusawa #10 Posted 01 July 2018 - 07:22 AM

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Really guys, why you trying to compare the tiger2 to any other tier8 russian vehicle? You know all the game and everything this is not the first topic about the useless german tanks. I goes further e100 will be worse than tiger2, e100 its a good tank armour is not bad gun its not bad but its a heat magnet. You gonna see every tank what you gonna meet gonna penetrate it. If you angle the vehicle can bounce a few but its still a german tank so cant be better than a russian.

tankqull #11 Posted 01 July 2018 - 08:46 AM

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View PostHoldes, on 01 July 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

Tiger II is fine compared to Black Prince (tier for tier). My Gawd, that thing is awful.

 

BP at least has a turret that can be used in hulldown situations tiger two is just a big HP pinata as you can be penned everywhere by all those powercrept tanks.

 

i don´t feel the T2 needs a buff though, they really need to get back to 2012 balance ideology bring back weakspots pennable by lowtier standartammo, and reduce higher tier pen values to feasable amounts. but reagrdless of what we moan about WG doesn´t care anyway

 



shane73tank #12 Posted 01 July 2018 - 09:26 AM

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ROF buff is a nice little way of bringing it up to date but without contributing to the armour power creep, perhaps some speed to get it in position early

Cobra6 #13 Posted 01 July 2018 - 09:32 AM

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Tiger II needs moving down to tier 7 if anything *OR* needs to have it's armour buffed.

 

Back when the average pen for mediums at tier 8 was ~180 with a max of 202 (Panther II), the Tiger II was balanced but nowadays with pretty much all mediums having a minimum of 210mm penetration it's armour is worthless.

 

Cobra 6



Tom_Deekanarry #14 Posted 01 July 2018 - 09:44 AM

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Power creep is ruining the game, WOT is simply adding more and more prototype tanks with better stats to get people to spend more!

 

The entire tank set needs to be rebalanced, service tanks should always be better than the prototypes that were rejected for service, if they were so good they would have been produced!



AliceUnchained #15 Posted 01 July 2018 - 10:35 AM

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View PostDava_117, on 30 June 2018 - 11:18 PM, said:

IMO dpm is not a problem. The thing that I really miss is mobility. Really, my KV-4 has tons of armour and still have better acceleration! Tiger2 is too sluggish for the ammount of armour it has. The gun is godlike, the armour may be used in sidescraping or from distance, but you can't actually maximize those strenghts because you're slower than a superheavy! I heard that back then it had a 3rd, more powerful engine. I would firstly add it back. Then we can talk about DPM and other things

 

It's true, I still have it in garage. See attached.

 

Attached Files

  • Attached File   Capture_Maybach-HL234.JPG   34.47K


Dava_117 #16 Posted 01 July 2018 - 11:09 AM

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View PostAliceUnchained, on 01 July 2018 - 10:35 AM, said:

 

It's true, I still have it in garage. See attached.

 

 

This was a really nice engine! 170 more HP may relly help the tank. :)

Edited by Dava_117, 01 July 2018 - 11:09 AM.


Flid_Merchant #17 Posted 01 July 2018 - 11:12 AM

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View PostTom_Deekanarry, on 01 July 2018 - 09:44 AM, said:

The entire tank set needs to be rebalanced, service tanks should always be better than the prototypes that were rejected for service, if they were so good they would have been produced!

Not necessarily, some of them may have been rejected on grounds of cost, or other specific considerations that don't affect combat capability.



Rati_Festa #18 Posted 01 July 2018 - 11:18 AM

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View PostFlid_Merchant, on 01 July 2018 - 11:12 AM, said:

Not necessarily, some of them may have been rejected on grounds of cost, or other specific considerations that don't affect combat capability.

In that scenario then they should be expensive to purchase and repair. Real tanks imo should always be at least competitive.



Tom_Deekanarry #19 Posted 01 July 2018 - 11:20 AM

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View PostFlid_Merchant, on 01 July 2018 - 11:12 AM, said:

Not necessarily, some of them may have been rejected on grounds of cost, or other specific considerations that don't affect combat capability.

 

Prototypes are not developed so will never be as good as a fully service standard vehicle, even service vehicles were selected at prototype stage and go through many marks and improvements based on combat or service experience, the prototypes never reach this stage and are never subjected to the scrutiny of daily use, nearly all prototypes are rejected on the basis of flaws or impracticalities in the design!

Edited by Tom_Deekanarry, 01 July 2018 - 11:25 AM.


Flid_Merchant #20 Posted 01 July 2018 - 11:32 AM

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I'm not disputing that, just stating that not all of these flaws would affect in game performance, eg the super heavy tanks rejected primarily on logistical grounds, but we can be fairly sure they would be combat effective. Unless you want to bring in things such as mechanical failures to the game, which nobody would find fun. But I agree with the principle they shouldn't just be used to shoehorn in tanks with higher and higher stats.




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