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Anti "arty-whiners" Thread

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General_McMuschi #1 Posted 02 July 2018 - 07:20 AM

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I am so damn annoyed by all the people crying "arty is OP, it needs another nerf, arty is still unbalanced, it needs to be fixed or removed, arty Edited base campers shouldn't be in this game" etc, you get my point.

 

What the hell is your problem? What's wrong with you? People like that have been "crying arty" for years so consistently that even WG eventually heard them and couldn't ignore those whiners anymore. 

So as a response, WG have nerfed the hell out of artillery class, way over-nerfed it, but you guys don't even acknowledge that and keep whining just as much as before. When are you going to realize that if you're still, after all the arty rebalancing, getting hit by arty, it's partially your own fault?

 

You were complaining about arty one-shotting you before, now you complain about arty hitting, splashing and stunning you over and over again... 

Even if arty gets completely removed, whiners and crybabies like you will start to complain about the tank destroyers who do the same thing and a lot better, and if TDs would get "fixed and rebalanced" - then you'll complain about any support tank playing as a support and outplaying you (such as light tank flanking you). I know people like you will always whine instead of just considering playing better.

 

I've noticed that a lot of you don't play arty enough and don't even know how to properly play it. Because of that, you really suck when you play against arty. You don't even know where to position yourself to be arty safe, actually most of you are so damn ignorant you behave like "being arty safe" is just a myth. That's simply because you've no idea how to predict where arty is shooting from, where he'll have shots and where not. Instead of whining about arty, try to learn a thing or two about how it works on different positions and maps.

 

I feel like there are a few things people who don't play arty don't even understand so let's clear that up right here:

 

1) We don't see you guys at all - unless we have someone in team providing us with vision.

So many of you believe in this illusion that - when we (arty) get in our arty view from above, automatically can see red tanks everywhere and then we just click on any of them, wait for reload to do the same/repeat. That is really not true.

 

Before I even start slowly aiming somewhere, I have to consider all info that is available to me and predict which of my tanks is going to provide me with vision and spots - and where, I also have to predict who is likely to be at that area. This is called pre-aiming and we do it all the time, it's a way of "having vision" of enemy tanks without/before actually seeing them, and to do that we got to know tank stats of all tanks in the game (we got to know for example who will have good view range from our team and which position he is trying to take and what can he spot from that position, we got to know the mobility and firepower of enemy tanks to read their mind too so we can assist our team in outplaying them).

 

This is why you - tank - should have and use your Sixth Sense perk. If you're spotted, there is a chance I am (or am not) aiming at you. Even if I am aiming at you, it doesn't mean I'll fire at you because - after all - my reload is very long and I might see a more interesting target to shot at by the time my reload is done and leave you alone. And, even if I do fire at you, I still have bad accuracy and long shell travel time so it's usually either my luck combined with long and patient aiming that made me hit you, or just your own laziness and stupidity for making yourself easy target for me after being spotted (and not reacting to that fact).

 

2) Not all arties have the same gun trajectory. Many people behave like - when arty gets in arty mode view, we can shoot everywhere and anywhere. This is so not true. I have to know the map and locations and relocate frequently to have different shots on different parts of the map. 

 

Some arties (French) have very flat trajectory so they'll struggle to land a shot over small hill or even a small rock. Other arties (British) will have nice high trajectory which makes them able to land shots where flat-trajectory arties just cannot, even over bigger rocks. 

 

If half of you guys who complain about arty being OP would actually play arty, you would actually have knowledge of where different arties have shots and don't have shots - in other words, you'd know where to be completely arty safe. It is not that hard to be arty safe now considering most of maps are corridor maps! But you guys are lazy to learn, but yet not lazy to whine and complain when arty hits you which translates in my head as an act of being lazy and Edited .

 

3) Many of you complain about being hit by arty when on the move driving full speed. That happens because of me/arty aiming my shot well + some (RNG) luck, but it doesn't happen often. 

 

Believe it or not, the way the game currently is - is forcing arties to snipe at weakpoints (and use splash way more than before rebalancing because landing a direct hit gets you less damage than splashing does in some arties). Before the rebalancing, all we had to do was land a shot at the tank. Now, we have to aim it at right/proper part of the tank too - which isn't easy considering bad gun handling, low penetration, long distance from the target and shell travel time.

 

To score a hit like that with arty (on a target moving full speed), I have to be targeting you for a while to see how you play, to be able to predict your next move and predict it correctly taking into consideration a couple of seconds of my shell travel time too. 

Then, after I fire my shot aimed the best I think possible - it comes down to luck if I predicted correctly your position at right moment and if my shot actually landed where I wanted it to. 

If it happens and I hit you when you're on the move, I outplayed you. And you, tank, got outplayed because you didn't even try to outplay me (or just had less luck than me but it usually doesn't come down to just who was more lucky).

 

The saddest part of it is - when I score a nice hit like that, I don't usually get rewarded for it in arty because I only do pathetic few hundreds HP of damage or even less than a hundred depending on enemy armor and where exactly the shot landed. 

This is not fair or balanced, to score a nice sneaky hit, well calculated and predicted, and feel like you're not even being rewarded for it (especially considering when your target doesn't even have much armor but you still don't do decent amount of damage simply because the game is broken).

 

4) When you see snipers camping, and you know they're still camping the same spot even once they've stopped being spotted/visible - you aren't going to go on the open in front of their guns, will you? Because you know they are there and they'll shoot you if you do it. So - why don't you play like that against arty? It's not like you don't know our team has arty. If you chose to play like arty is not in the game and doesn't exist, then you have no right to whine and cry about getting hit by one.

 

5) So many people complain about being shot by arty for some damage but you guys get shot for more damage and more often/take more damage in general by enemy tank destroyers. I don't see you come to forum to complain how a TD hit you for half or all of your HP, why is that? 

 

It's because of TDs having to have direct line of fire, right? 

So what if they do have direct line of fire - what difference does it make for you? It's not like you're going to flank a Jagdpanzer E 100 in front of you because he obviously has his support around him. It's not like you'll snipe that T110E4 cupola on top of the turret from 200+ meters when in your IS-7 (or any heavy tank gun with awkward gun handling). 

So, my point is, even if TDs are somehow not camping but behaving like assault guns/breakthrough/support tanks in first line - you're pretty limited when it comes to fighting against them in most situations. But yet, you only complain about arty who has like 4 times less HP, no view range, and a lot worse firepower capabilities in general. I don't see how is that not simply stupid behavior from you against-arty whiners.

 

Conclusion: I don't really see such lazy tank players to even have enough motivation to read this entire long post, after all they are lazy above all. So keep it up - it's your own choice for being like this and it is called being a lazy hypocrite. Or - choose to be better than than and learn to play finally.


Edited by Asklepi0s, 02 July 2018 - 12:39 PM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks


chillsnotskills #2 Posted 02 July 2018 - 07:31 AM

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I was one shot by red line invisible broken tank class - arty. Driving my charrioter, trying to fight across some ridge and boom. One shot by an invisible tank beyoooond my draw distance. How is that normal?

Draw distance should be applied to arty and arty should be reduced to 1 per game. 3 arty focusing you beyond draw distance is not 1% fun.

Most fun games i've had were in arty free matches.

Spioszeqq #3 Posted 02 July 2018 - 07:35 AM

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Nah just remove arty and this game will be perfect.

iztok #4 Posted 02 July 2018 - 07:50 AM

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> Anti "arty-whiners" Thread

> I am so damn annoyed by all the people crying "arty is OP,...

Don't you realize, you're doing exactly the same thing, with just changed object of whining? :amazed:

People will whine. Period.



General_McMuschi #5 Posted 02 July 2018 - 08:09 AM

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View Postiztok, on 02 July 2018 - 07:50 AM, said:

> Anti "arty-whiners" Thread

> I am so damn annoyed by all the people crying "arty is OP,...

Don't you realize, you're doing exactly the same thing, with just changed object of whining? :amazed:

People will whine. Period.

I do realize that. The purpose of my topic and everything I wrote is not just to whine but to actually try to make people who whine - think and become better players instead of just continuing to whine. This is why the thread is as long as it is.

 

That said, I am aware that there's no point in trying to educate lazy stubborn players, those people don't want to learn so there's nothing to do about that.

 

That's the second reason why I created this topic: to whine as well because I deserved the right to do it - I've been playing for 3 years and have 21k battles, mostly being on this forum as well reading all the whiny crybaby threads staying silent. Never have I whined, no matter how wrong people were, no matter what frustrated me and seemed unfair about the game. So yeah I do whine in this thread as well because - why the hell wouldn't I, for once? Especially if I'm right.


Edited by General_McMuschi, 02 July 2018 - 08:40 AM.


Jigabachi #6 Posted 02 July 2018 - 08:10 AM

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Well. Arty still needs quite a bit of rebalancing, sooo... the whiners aren't entirely wrong.

Elmer_Fud #7 Posted 02 July 2018 - 08:20 AM

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I'm thinking of creating a new account exclusively to play arty..... honest.

Bora_BOOM #8 Posted 02 July 2018 - 08:23 AM

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TL-DR

 

The only thing I agree on is that OP refers to arty players as "WE" and "non-arty" players (or "haters" ) as "YOU".

 

Good, keep it that way. And change that spinning tank in your sig for a "Le-Fefe-f-f-he he..."


Edited by Bora_BOOM, 02 July 2018 - 08:23 AM.


General_McMuschi #9 Posted 02 July 2018 - 08:28 AM

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View Postchillsnotskills, on 02 July 2018 - 07:31 AM, said:

I was one shot by red line invisible broken tank class - arty. Driving my charrioter, trying to fight across some ridge and boom. One shot by an invisible tank beyoooond my draw distance. How is that normal?

How is it "normal" when you get killed by an Object 268-4 for example who is playing like a medium tank flanker/scout?

How is it "normal" when you get sniped and one-shotted by a Type 5 Heavy on the other side of the map?

How is it "normal" when in mid tier battles you get DPM-ed to death by a yoloing E25 who flanks you, shoots you over and over and even bounces shells you fire at it (even though it doesn't have much armor)?

 

So how about you stop just choosing to remember all the times arty killed you and if felt like it was unfair, why do you choose to forget and not complain about all the tanks that killed you and it felt unfair? I'm saying arty is not the biggest problem in the game that you should be complaining about. Not at all.


Edited by General_McMuschi, 02 July 2018 - 08:39 AM.


Gremlin182 #10 Posted 02 July 2018 - 08:29 AM

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Oh its arty rant day great this has been building up for a while ;)

 

Pre arty nerf I was being killed by arty in around 3% of my games, thats full pen and damage arty with platooning and 3 arty in some games. 3%

Its about the same now though you are damaged/stunned more but still 3%

So really who the BEEP cares.

 

Been given some strange reasons for this the best was I don't get shot because I am not a very good player  arty uses xvm to focus on the best players.

Sorry im not having that

Arty shoots what it sees and since it has no control over when and where its targets will appear and who they are Arty cannot focus on the best players.

For a start arty players are depicted as borderline Edited  who cannot play other classes yet now they are savvy enough to shoot the better players abd leave me alone.

 

That sounds a bit like that immigrant quote that Immigrants are coming here taking our jobs and living on benefits.

I'm sorry run that past me again.

When there is arty in a game both teams have it so when one team gets wiped out and you are blown up by arty.

What was your teams arty doing ?

 

Arty is not THE problem team failure is your problem because while you cannot shoot the arty sitting at the back you can shoot the probably light tank that is lighting you up.

I go onto Malinovka or Prokorovka 2 of the best light tank maps  get well forward in the first minute and light up most of the enemy team.

Then I sit back and watch as my teams tanks take them apart surprisingly its mostly TDs and heavy tanks doing the taking apart, faster rof and accuracy means they get 2 maybe 3 shots in for each arty shell.

 

As other threads have covered wargaming have been removing bushes and nerfing/changing spotting locations.

On both those maps I named there are probably 2 maybe 3 places you are being spotted from.

 

So back though the problem again you are shot by arty because you are spotted and there are only 2 or 3 probable spotting locations.

Come on put it together do the math as they say.

You cannot shoot the arty so you shoot at ........

 

I will accept that arty is the most frustrating class to play and play against because when you are punished by arty you personally cannot do much to defend against it, thats down to other members of your team that let you down.

As a class they probably should not have been added certainly units that can fire from one corner of the map to any location should not have been added but its in and seems extremely unlikely that it will be removed.

I suspect the might get changed again but not removed.

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Asklepi0s, 02 July 2018 - 12:43 PM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks


SuNo_TeSLa #11 Posted 02 July 2018 - 08:32 AM

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1. Arty is NOT OP, bur it's broken and allows terrible players to punch way above their weight unlike any other class.

2. ONE arty per team can actually be productive to gameplay (mainly due to shitty map-design though) except in the case of those high tier American abominations that splash you for 400 damage and 20 sec stun from 20 away

Homer_J #12 Posted 02 July 2018 - 08:32 AM

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With regards to hitting "active" scouts at full speed, you don't really have to wait that long.  Most of them could be replaced by a scripted bot, they will do the same circuit over and over until I stop them.

AXIS_OF_RESISTANCE #13 Posted 02 July 2018 - 08:45 AM

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TL;DR 

after 1000 battles in the most broken arty, he writes a story about arty being balanced :teethhappy:

Simple logic :

A: A tank shoots you from the red-line ,you can't shoot back, causes the following:

1.damage 

2.tracking 

3.stun crew

4.kill the crew

5.damage modules 

6.repeat 1 to 5

and you call that balanced + imagine that in 3 arty game :teethhappy:

.....................Arty is THE most idiotic concept in gaming history.................... 


Edited by xxTANK_Uxx, 04 July 2018 - 04:22 PM.
Use of red color


General_McMuschi #14 Posted 02 July 2018 - 08:49 AM

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View PostBora_BOOM, on 02 July 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

Good, keep it that way. And change that spinning tank in your sig for a "Le-Fefe-f-f-he he..."

That's a good one! :teethhappy: And if I cared enough for signature, I'd perhaps do it. And it's called FiFi and not Lefefefefefefeffe. :trollface:

Anyway, go ahead - make fun of me if that makes you feel better. That really doesn't change anything for you or me or anyone.

 

We're all just wasting time here anyway, it's not like game developers will ever read any of this *edit anyway. :girl:


Edited by xxTANK_Uxx, 04 July 2018 - 04:23 PM.
Inappropriate remarks


jack_timber #15 Posted 02 July 2018 - 08:53 AM

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If folks didn't have arty to whine about it would be summat else, some just like to complain.

That's why I often take arty out for a spin, just to annoy these good folks :)

Good post btw....



Cobra6 #16 Posted 02 July 2018 - 08:54 AM

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Oh look, another arty apologist, how original....

 

Artillery can hit pretty much all match-critical locations from the spawn in their base, yes you can hide from it for sure and stay "arty safe". That, however, is a myth. If you want to have any direct influence on the match you can not stay arty safe as all arty safe locations are in useless positions on the map from which you can not have any direct impact on, or put pressure on the match itself.

 

If critical map locations were truly arty safe you'd quickly stop playing the class as there would be nothing for you to shoot at in areas where the fighting actually happens.

 

And another thing, while you say: Hitting on the move doesn't happen often, indeed, that is just for you.

But me on the receiving end being tracked by 3 arty in my light tank doing 65 will get hit quite a lot since the chances just multiply because of the number of arty shooting at me each match.

 

View PostGeneral_McMuschi, on 02 July 2018 - 06:20 AM, said:

 

4) When you see snipers camping, and you know they're still camping the same spot even once they've stopped being spotted/visible - you aren't going to go on the open in front of their guns, will you? Because you know they are there and they'll shoot you if you do it. So - why don't you play like that against arty?

 

 

Just this one separately for a minute, see above. If you want to have any impact/influence on the battle you HAVE to use certain locations or already handicap your team and increase your chances of losing the match. Arty can always hit these locations easily as I explained above. It's map design specifically to make sure you have targets to shoot at in your arty.

 

View PostGeneral_McMuschi, on 02 July 2018 - 06:20 AM, said:

 

5) So many people complain about being shot by arty for some damage but you guys get shot for more damage and more often/take more damage in general by enemy tank destroyers. I don't see you come to forum to complain how a TD hit you for half or all of your HP, why is that? 

 

It's because of TDs having to have direct line of fire, right? 

So what if they do have direct line of fire - what difference does it make for you? It's not like you're going to flank a Jagdpanzer E 100 in front of you because he obviously has his support around him. It's not like you'll snipe that T110E4 cupola on top of the turret from 200+ meters when in your IS-7 (or any heavy tank gun with awkward gun handling). 

 

 

 

You want to know the difference: They have to actually put themselves in harms way to be able to do damage, if they want to shoot you they need to put themselves in a position where you can shoot them back. It's a "Risk <=> Reward" setup. Artillery is completely exempt from this, they can damage/stun you all match long without having to put themselves at risk. Only at the end of the battle they will potentially be shot back.

*THAT* is a crucial difference and why people in general have far less of a problem with TD's. Even if they have camo or are invisible, you can still fire back blindly and stand a good chance of hitting. Or you drive closer, spot them and then damage them.

 

There is a very good reason why good players hate arty, just look on the forums and look at various (unicum) streamers. It's a class designed for, let's call them Less Skilled players. A way for them  to damage enemies which in a normal fight they'd have very little chance to do damage to. They are not bound to the same rules any other class in this game is bound to and the maps are specifically designed to allow them to do damage to critical locations on the map without the victims being able to defend themselves properly in any way. And by defending I mean engaging, not cowering behind a rock because that is not a defense, that is running away.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 02 July 2018 - 09:10 AM.


Bora_BOOM #17 Posted 02 July 2018 - 09:10 AM

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View PostGeneral_McMuschi, on 02 July 2018 - 07:49 AM, said:

That's a good one! :teethhappy: And if I cared enough for signature, I'd perhaps do it. And it's called FiFi and not Lefefefefefefeffe. :trollface:

Anyway, go ahead - make fun of me if that makes you feel better. That really doesn't change anything for you or me or anyone.

 

We're all just wasting time here anyway, it's not like game developers will ever read any of this *edit anyway. :girl:

 

Nah, I am not making fun of anyone. I just find both ends of the "whine arty" and "anti-whine arty" scale being equally ridiculous.

 

For me, arta is simply not needed, I play it exclusively as necessity due the personal missions (finished my spg for t55a, so bye-bye clicking for a while)

Also, and again, my opinion only, it is an "easy mode" that WG needs to keep the players that are not that into learning all the stuff that requires you 5-10k games or more.

And cause of the "diversity" it brings...

 

Balancing arta is obviously hard for WG, or impossible. Cause of the "i slap you across the map and later you hunt me down" concept it has there is not much that can be done.

As it seems their "we will try to fix arta for one last time" and the "arta rebalance" (9.18) brought us what we have now.

Not a happy solution, but apparently WG is fine with it. Its here to stay, causing gripe and happiness.



Steel_Patriot #18 Posted 02 July 2018 - 09:18 AM

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When 3 skyfilth decide to sit on you the second you light up in a match , your game is NOT FUN.

Its even funnier when they rather spam a meds/scouts running  flat out  than heavies sitting in the open.



General_McMuschi #19 Posted 02 July 2018 - 09:18 AM

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@Cobra6 thanks for reading it and actually taking me seriously.

 

 I cannot speak in the name of other people who play arty (even tho I kind of did that before) but I can say that I personally would not mind if artillery would be changed in a way that makes arty NOT be forced to camp all the way in the back.

 

I love to relocate and the only reason why I stay in the back is - because I am very vulnerable. I have no view range, no armor to bounce any shell, no HP either. If my arty would have as much armor and HP as some tank destroyers do, I would gladly fight an enemy that can actually see me and shoot back. Reality is - once you're spotted in arty, you're most likely dead. And how are you going to play - if you're dead?

 

I didn't design the game to be like that. If only I had HP to survive being spotted, I'd be spotted and "fight fair" against tanks in arty. Of course, WG are never going to change arty gameplay to enable this even though it might be better for everyone.

 

What I'm saying is - tank destroyers and battle tanks have other things to keep them in the battle after they've been spotted, such as firepower/dpm, armor, HP, even camo. They can survive being spotted. In arty - that's not that easy (just splash from enemy arty can take you out of the game). All arty has to keep itself alive and useful for the team is - being away, unspotted, invisible. Many of the arties don't even have enough mobility to avoid receiving counter battery splash damage. So, yeah - arty is vulnerable and weak for a good reason. You get to use indirect line of fire but you sacrifice everything else to get that.


Edited by General_McMuschi, 02 July 2018 - 09:32 AM.


krismorgan #20 Posted 02 July 2018 - 09:20 AM

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Nice one op-my tuppence is that now i dont care for rambling around a map as i used to.So i mainly play arty 99% of games now just to ruin other players games.I steal sweets from kids too.

:popcorn:







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