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2-Level MM

matchmaking MM skill Bots

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Poll: Matchmaking division (78 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Would you like to have MM divided in 2 groups/levels

  1. Yes, based on Personal score (14 votes [17.95%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.95%

  2. Yes, based on WN8 (10 votes [12.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.82%

  3. Yes, based on something else (5 votes [6.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.41%

  4. No. (45 votes [57.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.69%

  5. I'm not sure. (4 votes [5.13%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.13%

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Procjon #1 Posted 03 July 2018 - 04:33 AM

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Edit.1

I see a confusion so need to clarify something. This thread is not about making MM skill based but about cutting off those who don't contribute to this game by actually playing this game. I know for some of you playing is when we press "START" button but for me a meaning of playing is when you actually are active in playing after you pressed "START" button. Sitting and idling is not a playing but botting. I hope it clears the air ;).

 

 

 

There were many topics about how MM should look. In my opinion it should be divided in 2 levels to get rid of BOTS alike players. I really don't want to make skill MM as everybody was a newbie at some time but i'm trying to find a solution how to get rid of bots alike players.

 

Not sure if WN8 or Personal score or maybe something else would be the deciding factor where someone belongs to and i don't know what number is good but i think it is kind of necessary if WG wants to improve enjoyment of playing their game. Once someone gets better it moves up to 2nd level and if gets worse it moves down to 1st level.

 

I doubt BOTS alike players would recognize any difference, why? they seem kind of lost anyway ;). Well, i had a game, that guy playing top tier 8 in tier 8 game moved to safe location so i doubt it was a bot but you never know and all game he was moving either a tank or mostly a gun 360 degrees, pointing a gun up and down and etc. while sitting in the same spot. At first i thought maybe he is new, learning a map, enjoying landscape and etc. but i checked his stats, over 66.000 games.

 

It's one thing to afk, or playing poorly but trying and other thing just being useless blob filling a space.

 

So i'm not sure what stats characteristic is good and what level of that division (1000,2000? of personal score or WN8 and etc.) is best but i feel most of players, starting from below average to the unicums would appreciate to have an enemy or an ally that at least is a kind of value to the game.

 

What do you think?

 

HF

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Procjon, 03 July 2018 - 07:55 PM.


hiXhaX #2 Posted 03 July 2018 - 07:16 AM

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So the MM should first make teams by tank classes and then try to also distribute the "skill" amongst the teams equally?

I guess, this wont work sometimes. If you have 4 superheavies in 1 Match, 3 of which are bots and 1 is unicum, it is impossible. Now the MM could search for equally skilled opponents in the queue first, but this will become immensely complicated to do for all the tank classes und thus, queue times will go up, who knows by how much.

 

Also, what you are suggesting IS skill based MM. It wont be a "league" system, but if both teams have equal skilled players, the winrate will be equal as well. So, dear unicums, say goodbye to 60%+WR, every bot will win just as much as you do. :/

I just imagine a unicum playing lowtiers, where there arent many skilled players. To compensate for the unicum, sometimes the unicum player's team will consist of bots only. Because balance. That wont be fun.

 

If you want skill based MM, you need to give the higher skilled players some goodies. You take away their winrate, you need to give something.



arthurwellsley #3 Posted 03 July 2018 - 08:07 AM

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Wn8 was player created and the formula belongs to them. WG will therefore never use it.

 

PR was created by WG at about the time of WN7 and was slightly updated thereafter. WG used to publish the equation that made PR. If WG wanted to they could refer PR into the mm calculation for making teams. When PR was created (years ago) it was speculated that part of the reason for PR was to add it into the mm as it balanced teams. For all the players know about the shrouded process of the mm PR might have been used during some of the historic patches.



250swb #4 Posted 03 July 2018 - 08:11 AM

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View PostProcjon, on 03 July 2018 - 03:33 AM, said:

 

What do you think?

 

 

I imagine you jealously guard your 53% WR, so tell us how you think you'll feel when it goes down to 50% when you start playing against equally skilled players?



Homer_J #5 Posted 03 July 2018 - 08:19 AM

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View PostProcjon, on 03 July 2018 - 04:33 AM, said:

 

What do you think?

 

 

So if I play badly I get to play against other bad players, win more and gain more exp and credits.  Sounds good. :rolleyes:

Jigabachi #6 Posted 03 July 2018 - 08:25 AM

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View PostProcjon, on 03 July 2018 - 04:33 AM, said:

There were many topics about how MM should look. 

Indeed. So why another thread? Especially when there were way more elaborate ones...

 

Anyway, I would love to see some soft skillbased MM in the game, but since WG is that incompetent, they would most definitely fail with it and ruin the game even more.

But if that wasn't the case, I could think of two options: Either something similar to what you suggested, which simply cuts away the botlevel players, or a MM that randomly picks 2x15 players and then tries to distribute them as evenly as possible. In both cases there should also be an extra MM for new players with up to 2000 or even more matches.



SlyMeerkat #7 Posted 03 July 2018 - 08:25 AM

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Indifferent 

wEight_Tanker #8 Posted 03 July 2018 - 11:22 AM

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Due to the high number of Artillery threads, we want discussions to take place in the main pinned thread here.

Graeme0 #9 Posted 03 July 2018 - 02:53 PM

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The shame is that player stats have very little to do with their ability to play as a team.

 

OP sems particularly precious and I would not trust him for one second to push into the enemy. 



_LEO_ #10 Posted 03 July 2018 - 03:06 PM

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View PostGraeme0, on 03 July 2018 - 01:53 PM, said:

The shame is that player stats have very little to do with their ability to play as a team.

 

OP sems particularly precious and I would not trust him for one second to push into the enemy. 

 

Only red players 40something% WR play as "team", they do "team" push in the begining and die in 2 min.
 

 



Simeon85 #11 Posted 03 July 2018 - 03:25 PM

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View PostGraeme0, on 03 July 2018 - 02:53 PM, said:

The shame is that player stats have very little to do with their ability to play as a team.

 

Win rate says hello. 

 

Helping the team win is the best team play and this is indicated by players with high win rates. 



StinkyStonky #12 Posted 03 July 2018 - 04:01 PM

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View PostProcjon, on 03 July 2018 - 03:33 AM, said:

In my opinion it should be divided in 2 levels to get rid of BOTS alike players.

 

"... get rid of BOTS alike players".

 

When the game starts and you look at the XVM coloured team line ups, what do you look for ?

You see that most players (on both teams) are yellow with a few greens and oranges sprinkled in, but 2 players have extreme stats ?

Do you say :-

  a) Oh no, we've got 2 red players, we're bound to lose ?

  b) Yeay, they've got 2 red players, we're bound to win ?

 

No you don't, because red players ("BOTS alike players" as you call them) have next to no impact on the game.

 

What you actually think is

  c) Oh no, they've got 2 purple players, we're bound to lose !

  d) Yeay, we've got 2 purple players, we're bound to win !

 

What you should think is

  c) Yeay, they've got 2 purple players, we're likely to lose but this is my chance to farm.

  d) Oh no, we've got 2 purple players, we're bound to win and I'll get hardly any damage/XP/credits as it will all be hoovered up by the purps.

 

High stat players have a much greater disruptive impact on this game than "BOTS alike players".



Mimos_A #13 Posted 03 July 2018 - 04:06 PM

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I think it would be healthy to just sift the sub 46% crowd out of the general MM. You only sink so deep by consistently doing stuff that has a negative impact on the game experience of others.

Sirebellus #14 Posted 03 July 2018 - 04:41 PM

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Don't you think it's more likely WG don't differentiate the playerbase by PR / WR / WN8 stats but instead divide it into those who give them money and those who don't ?

It doesn't matter how good or bad a player you are if you pay them money you are a Customer and paying Customers have Consumer Rights - you can't give one player a different 'game experience' for the same payment to that you give another player unless they knowingly sign up for the different service.


 

AdytzuGamer26 #15 Posted 03 July 2018 - 04:43 PM

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I think they just have bad internet connection and some times the game frozes, goes back on, frozes, goes back on....everyone experienced this at least once.


Edited by AdytzuGamer26, 03 July 2018 - 05:07 PM.


Gremlin182 #16 Posted 03 July 2018 - 05:00 PM

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The solution isn't + or - 1 2 3 or anything MM, the solution given its random battles is to be equally nice and nasty to all the players.

Sure its a real pain when the top players on one team are all green and those on the other all red but that evens out over time.

 

Whats important at least to me is that I will be top tier as many times as I am bottom tier and if possible not top tier on a +1 game or single tier game.

If I am going to meet tanks +2 to me then I also want to meet tanks that are -2 to me so I can ruin their day.

 

+3mm for light tanks was wonderful I miss that.

Tier 8 being the maximum arty level I really miss that.

 

Because there were no tier 9 and 10 lights and SPGs when you played tier 8-10 you had good solid heavies and mediums as top tiers in the games and the Lights and SPGs supported them.

Now far to often the Lights and SPGs are higher tier than the heavy tanks and that doesn't work out very well.



Elmer_Fud #17 Posted 03 July 2018 - 05:20 PM

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Personally, I just do not see the point of these threads. MM has been done to death on these forums and nothing ever changes. In all honesty I think WG are incapable of fixing it. They tried with the 3/5/7 and if anything made it worse. The power creep between tiers has ensured anything other than top tier is ultimately frustrating. Hence the rush towards tier 10.

Is that WG strategy? Who knows, but it would certainly rake in the cash for them.

Edited by Elmer_Fud, 03 July 2018 - 05:22 PM.


Procjon #18 Posted 03 July 2018 - 07:48 PM

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View PosthiXhaX, on 03 July 2018 - 06:16 AM, said:

So the MM should first make teams by tank classes and then try to also distribute the "skill" amongst the teams equally?

I guess, this wont work sometimes. If you have 4 superheavies in 1 Match, 3 of which are bots and 1 is unicum, it is impossible. Now the MM could search for equally skilled opponents in the queue first, but this will become immensely complicated to do for all the tank classes und thus, queue times will go up, who knows by how much.

 

 

 

I don't think MM will get complicated. It would be divided in 2 levels which means either you qualify to be in 2nd or not. I think many players confuse my MM division with MM fully based on skill.

 

It is not a case as you don't match players on both sides of a team but only players that can enter a queue. Basically such a division would be almost identical to what current MM is but with an exception for players that can not meet the required level of Personal score, WN8 or anything else we pick. To make it more clear imagine as the whole players base divided in 2 servers with current MM. All stay the same but you don't get active players mixed with bots alike players.

 

HF

 

 

 

 

 



Procjon #19 Posted 03 July 2018 - 07:50 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 03 July 2018 - 07:19 AM, said:

 

So if I play badly I get to play against other bad players, win more and gain more exp and credits.  Sounds good. :rolleyes:

 

You missed my point, it is not about playing badly. It is about people not playing at all unless you think that sitting in the same spot and moving turret around for the whole time of the battle is a playing a game I want players like this :izmena::izmena::izmena:

 

HF

 



Procjon #20 Posted 03 July 2018 - 07:59 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 03 July 2018 - 03:01 PM, said:

 

No you don't, because red players ("BOTS alike players" as you call them) have next to no impact on the game.

 

 

I can not agree with you. If the BOT alike player is, let's say a Maus vs Type and other 2 top tier tanks are paper armor medium tanks in 3-5-7, that Maus sitting and botting has a big impact on how the game will roll, especially in city maps.

 

In my game that progetto was top tier and sitting and idling caused that other flank of tiers 6-7 got eaten by T26E4 Super Pershing. I'm not saying the game could not be won but it decreases chances when top tier is OUT from the start. 

 

HF

 

 

 

HF

 


Edited by Procjon, 03 July 2018 - 08:06 PM.





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