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What really is the point in playing tier 8 light tanks with small maps and tier 10 domination?

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kaneAAA #1 Posted 03 July 2018 - 01:34 PM

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Really, again what is the point of ELC etc. when time and time again you are put on small maps in tier 10 lineups where none of your strengths count for anything. Just another half-bothered WG idea, but it's just painful really how little thinking there is in structuring the gameplay so players can actually just have a decent experience. What does viewrange mean in these matchups? Nothing. Camo? Nothing. Being faster and harder to hit? Nothing. 

 

Just really what's the point. Why are these tanks put into these games? Just pure WG laziness, again?...



TankkiPoju #2 Posted 03 July 2018 - 01:36 PM

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All those tier 10 tanks need target practice.

Artick_ #3 Posted 03 July 2018 - 01:36 PM

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Point of light tanks?

 

2500 damage with Progetto 65 will give you 3.6k wn8

2500 damage with Elc Bis will give you 6.5k wn8

 

Any more questions ?



Element6 #4 Posted 03 July 2018 - 01:38 PM

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Something for those who would like an extra challenge?

OreH75 #5 Posted 03 July 2018 - 01:39 PM

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Spot - shoot - runaway - repeat.. most fun you can have in WoT

XxKuzkina_MatxX #6 Posted 03 July 2018 - 01:44 PM

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View PostArtick_, on 03 July 2018 - 02:36 PM, said:

Point of light tanks?

 

2500 damage with Progetto 65 will give you 3.6k wn8

2500 damage with Elc Bis will give you 6.5k wn8

 

Any more questions ?

 

View PostOreH75, on 03 July 2018 - 02:39 PM, said:

Spot - shoot - runaway - repeat.. most fun you can have in WoT

 

I guess that pretty much sums it up. You'll have fun and you'll be rewarded for it as well.

 

Also one of the less stressing classes to play in any tier.


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 03 July 2018 - 01:44 PM.


Search_Warrant #7 Posted 03 July 2018 - 01:50 PM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 03 July 2018 - 12:36 PM, said:

All those tier 10 tanks need target practice.

 

Sad but true. thats all LT's are in game.

nakkipeppu #8 Posted 03 July 2018 - 01:51 PM

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Dunno, to me this is more or less an issue about Mines being in rotation for above tier 5-6. I have weird infatuation with Ensk, and Himmeldorf has a surprising amount of movement and stuff you can do even as a bottom tier LT so I don't find those maps a problem. For the rest of the maps there's always something constructive to do, even if you can't do it *right away*.

 

Paris I have deemed crap regardless of class, but this could be a LTP issue, I don't have enough experience to judge that. Boy do we hate stuff we don't understand. Rest of the maps seem fine.



Simeon85 #9 Posted 03 July 2018 - 02:00 PM

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You can do well in them, they are probably quite suited to the bad MM because all tier 8s are support role in tier 10 games so you might as well be the fastest with the best camo to at least spot stuff, but I think your game experience is going to be more up and down because maps like Ensk or Mines or Abbey you just don't have the firepower to do anything meaningful. 

 

I worked my behind off the other day to do 3.5k damage on Ensk in a T92 and it was still nowhere near enough. 

 

So I think yeh with the tier 8 lights you are adding the frustration of the map rotation to the frustration of 3-5-7, so whilst overall you are probably no worse off, the bad games can be even more frustrating as you can be close to helpless in some games. When you have like 220 premium pen and 150 - 240 alpha are faced with a Maus or like 5A that has like over 2k hit points left, closing you down on Abbey or Himmelsdorf, yeh that is not fun. 

 

I have now decided for tier 8 credit grinds I am going to stick to Skorp G, WZ-120-1G, Defender and Progetto.  The TDs have the firepower to be consistent in tier 10 games without needing spam premium, the Defender is the Defender and can trouble tier 9 and 10 guns and the Progetto is that mobile and consistent burst damage which means you can more easily make the most of any openings the team gives you or enemy mistakes.

 

Basically the most powerful tier 8 prems, with high alpha/burst, and good penetration.  All the rest don't cut it in the current meta, which is a shame because I like playing tanks like the M4 Rev, T26E5, Primo Victoria etc. but stuff with no armour or mobility or low alpha just doesn't really cut it, you need a gun that scared tier 10 tanks otherwise they just roll over you. 


Edited by Simeon85, 03 July 2018 - 02:02 PM.


Search_Warrant #10 Posted 03 July 2018 - 02:05 PM

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View PostSimeon85, on 03 July 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

You can do well in them, they are probably quite suited to the bad MM because all tier 8s are support role in tier 10 games so you might as well be the fastest with the best camo to at least spot stuff, but I think your game experience is going to be more up and down because maps like Ensk or Mines or Abbey you just don't have the firepower to do anything meaningful. 

 

I worked my behind off the other day to do 3.5k damage on Ensk in a T92 and it was still nowhere near enough. 

 

So I think yeh with the tier 8 lights you are adding the frustration of the map rotation to the frustration of 3-5-7, so overall you are probably no worse off, the bad games can be even more frustrating as you can be close to helpless in some games. 

 

I have now decided for tier 8 credit grinds I am going to stick to Skorp G, WZ-120-1G, Defender and Progetto.  The TDs have the firepower to be consistent in tier 10 games without needing spam premium, the Defender is the Defender and can trouble tier 9 and 10 guns and the Progetto is that mobile and consistent burst damage which means you can more easily make the most of any openings the team gives you or enemy mistakes.

 

Basically the most powerful tier 8 prems, with high alpha/burst, and good penetration.  All the rest don't cut it in the current meta, which is a shame because I like playing tanks like the M4 Rev, T26E5, Primo Victoria etc. but stuff with no armour or mobility or low alpha just doesn't really cut it, you need a gun that scared tier 10 tanks otherwise they just roll over you. 

 

Love my primo/RAAC but... even i admit they arent "good" at all, they suck badly because alpha/burst has always been king and i wish WG would wake up and fix this horrible meta since day 1. its been around before KV-1S Nerf for god sakes. its just stupid how they dont give 90cal and below pop guns more DPM to compensate them. most dont even get pen.

 

Progetto got the pen, low (on par tier 8) alpha but the burst to make up for it with good gun handling. why? how is that remotely fair to a PattonKR? its so bad.

 

Tier 8 is in such a horrible state within its own tier. there is tiger2 and then there is IS-3, the gap has been there for years and its only getting worse with tanks like defender.


Edited by Search_Warrant, 03 July 2018 - 02:07 PM.


Negativvv #11 Posted 03 July 2018 - 02:20 PM

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The best thing is when pro wannabes expect you to go first and spot early in an LT on a corridor map when it's clear that the enemy are full aim camped.

 

Then they TK or push you out of bushes which makes no sense. How is that getting someone to play for the team?

 

Anyone who pulls that on me gets zero co operation. Off to a quiet corner of the map until it blows over...



gunslingerXXX #12 Posted 03 July 2018 - 02:23 PM

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View PostArtick_, on 03 July 2018 - 01:36 PM, said:

Point of light tanks?

 

2500 damage with Progetto 65 will give you 3.6k wn8

2500 damage with Elc Bis will give you 6.5k wn8

 

Any more questions ?

Whats the point of wn8?

 



Cobra6 #13 Posted 03 July 2018 - 02:25 PM

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View PostArtick_, on 03 July 2018 - 12:36 PM, said:

Point of light tanks?

 

2500 damage with Progetto 65 will give you 3.6k wn8

2500 damage with Elc Bis will give you 6.5k wn8

 

Any more questions ?

 

That just means it's infinitely harder to do damage in the ELC then it is to do so in the Progretto.

 

To be short, tier 8 light tanks have very little purpose if they constantly get chucked into tier 10 battles.

Everything has equal or bettet view range then you which also massively impacts your camo negatively. Tier 10 meds can easily keep up with you due to map design. Your penetration is not sufficient enough to engage stuff at range.

In short, no point.

 

For light tanks tier 6 and tier 7 is the sweet spot. You have capable guns and are at a tier where camo and view range do still play a major role so your light feels much more properly balanced then it does at tier 8 to 10.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 03 July 2018 - 02:28 PM.


Simeon85 #14 Posted 03 July 2018 - 02:51 PM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 03 July 2018 - 02:05 PM, said:

 

Love my primo/RAAC but... even i admit they arent "good" at all, they suck badly because alpha/burst has always been king and i wish WG would wake up and fix this horrible meta since day 1. its been around before KV-1S Nerf for god sakes. its just stupid how they dont give 90cal and below pop guns more DPM to compensate them. most dont even get pen.

 

Progetto got the pen, low (on par tier 8) alpha but the burst to make up for it with good gun handling. why? how is that remotely fair to a PattonKR? its so bad.

 

Tier 8 is in such a horrible state within its own tier. there is tiger2 and then there is IS-3, the gap has been there for years and its only getting worse with tanks like defender.

 

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the Primo/RAAC (do laugh that people having been calling the RAAC pay to win), they are solid tanks, good turret, good pen, decent mobility, gun depression etc. In a tier 8 environment like Frontlines they are fun to play and can beat something like Progetto if used correctly. DPM is bit funky as is gun handling, I don't think either tank would be 'OP' with say 2.4 - 2.5k DPM to compensate for their 230 alpha, especially if they kept the wonky gun handling. 

 

I mean Circon was playing the RAAC the other day and was aiming at something and said he always was surprised that it took that long to aim with something that only has 230 alpha on tier 8, the aim time felt like what you would expect for 390 alpha. Which is spot on, either the DPM or gun handling needs to be way better for these low alpha tanks. 

 

But the issue is tier 10, most of the time you play support, most armour won't hold up to tier 10 guns (though the RAAC and Primo are better of here than many tier 8s), your mobility options are limited on these corridor maps and your hp doesn't go far when there are tier 10 guns about. 

 

So really to have a good game as tier 8 in a tier 10 you need to take advantage of every and all support opportunity, so that tier 9 or 10 who has mucked up, or is distracted or you have flanked, if you have the chance to do a shot doing 490 or 440, or a burst of 480 is always going to be better than 230 or 240. 

 

DPM only works if you can leverage and create chances to use it, for tier 8s in constant tier 10s that is hard to do and very risky most of the time, you are much better of just exploiting opportunities that your team creates or enemy gives you, for that alpha and pen is crucial.

 

Which is why I am now favouring tanks like the Skorp, tier 8s in tier 10 is hardly ever fun, but at least if I am credit grinding I need to get a 4 shots of damage in a Skorp to have decent game and make good profit, whereas a 240 alpha gun needs 8 chances to do the same damage. 



r0f #15 Posted 03 July 2018 - 02:57 PM

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no point at all in the current MM setup

 

that's still a point to some people though, never changes there will always be people like that, doesn't change the stupid setup currently though

 

glad i don't play lights myself anymore, even though i did better on that account (lol not hard with this rating :trollface:) .. i'd still rather play a race game on console.. just me ofc

 

 

 

 


Edited by r0f, 03 July 2018 - 03:02 PM.


Search_Warrant #16 Posted 03 July 2018 - 03:06 PM

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View PostSimeon85, on 03 July 2018 - 01:51 PM, said:

 

 

Indeed. i dont get why WG thought crappy pop guns without DPM or pen was remotely balanced.. they started doing 200+ pen guns on prem meds recently but its not enough. they always get 90mm guns if they are mediums and i simply get bored of sweating too hard to get any form of damage with a wonkey gun without DPM. meanwhile steve the IS-7 just RRR steamrolls you because tier 8 v 10 balance doesent exist. there is no hope in hell a tier 8 can take on a tier 10 in a 1v1 situation, too much RNG is involved to let that happen.

Edited by Search_Warrant, 03 July 2018 - 03:07 PM.


Mimos_A #17 Posted 03 July 2018 - 03:53 PM

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I kind of like them for their mobility. Tier 8 meds aren't exactly the height of excitement either, at least lights get camo and mobility. I'd rather be in a WZ-132 than in most tier 8 meds.

 

But yeah, map selection, size and the stupendous tier gaps aren't making it easy to have fun in light tanks at tier 8 and 9.







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