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Let me summarize the Kursk event

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Xandania #41 Posted 06 July 2018 - 01:03 AM

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It is especially easy considering you can just use tier 2 and three tanks where you are pretty much ensured to get into the top ten without any hassle.

Neoiceman #42 Posted 06 July 2018 - 07:27 AM

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View Postpecopad, on 05 July 2018 - 05:47 PM, said:

 

There is a reason why the T34 is considered the best tank ever made by most of the specialists. Not WWII, but best ever, and that because it was the one who had the highest impact on a war, allowing to stop operation Barbarossa, and provided the blueprint for tanks to come.

 

Tigers and Panthers are mythological, just like the Bismark, they had an impact on Nazi propaganda and on the perpetuation of the German myth of superiority, no matter they were manufactured using forced labor and driven by SS divisions,but in end lacked anything to make them run.

 

Russians on the other hand have been facing the counter propaganda, all the numbers, and lucky climate weather, arguments etc when in fact, Russians had the best logistics, they had the best engineers and tank designers, and were able to deploy vast  numbers of man and material and keep siege frosted cities for months. Deploy all the manufacturing capacity and resource extraction for safer locations, etc

 

Credit due where the credit maters. Kursk wasn't an immaterial battle that the Germans won, Kursk was where the Germans were beaten and the faith of the war was determined, and where the Red Army superiority was established.

 

As you say the Tiger II and Panther are Nazi propaganda, than this crapis truly russian propaganda.

No country has killed more civilians than the russians.

The russian manufacturing was terrible, some tanks couldnt hit an house 100m infront of it because the canon was fucked up in calibrating.

No enough weapons and food for troops, but if you demur you got shoot.

 

The T34 has an impact on the war, yes. But also the 8.8 has an big impact, killing an russian or american tank on over 1,5km away without any problem, confirmed kills from russian and american tankcrews at around 2,5 to 3,0km, it was the most feared antitank gun on open grounds.

 

The german problem was allways the quality of its products, the russian lost alone arround 40 000 T34, thats more of all Tanks the german produced, around 25 000.



Gremlin182 #43 Posted 06 July 2018 - 07:41 AM

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View PostAdrian_iron_steel, on 05 July 2018 - 10:59 AM, said:

Not a realy great victory.

 

The Tigers didn't burn. Soviet tanks did:

There were lots of flaming tanks at Kursk. They were mostly Russian. Loss estimates for Kursk are fuzzy, but historians David Glantz and Jonathan House estimate the Germans lost 323 tanks destroyed, or about 10 percent of the tanks committed to the offensive (and a fraction of the 12,000  tanks and self-propelled guns the Third Reich built in 1943). Many German tanks damaged by mines or Soviet weapons, or that broke down, were subsequently recovered.

The Soviets lost at least 1,600 tanks, a 5:1 ratio in Germany's favor. The Germans probably lost 45 tanks at Prokhovoka, most of which were subsequently recovered and repaired. The Soviets may have lost 300 tanks destroyed and another 300 damaged, a 15:1 ratio in Germany's favor.

 

As for Tigers at Kursk, the Germans deployed 146. Only 6 were destroyed.

 

German tactical victory in one part of the battle Russian Strategic victory overall.

So whats the problem.

If one side can replace every lost man and machine and the other side cannot they will lose eventually.

Which they did as after Kursk it was practically fighting defensive battles from then on.

Propaganda machine was still working well according to them the German armies were advancing on all fronts though curiously every reported advance and success was closer to Berlin ;)



pecopad #44 Posted 06 July 2018 - 10:28 AM

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View PostNeoiceman, on 06 July 2018 - 07:27 AM, said:

 

As you say the Tiger II and Panther are Nazi propaganda, than this crapis truly russian propaganda.

No country has killed more civilians than the russians.

The russian manufacturing was terrible, some tanks couldnt hit an house 100m infront of it because the canon was fucked up in calibrating.

No enough weapons and food for troops, but if you demur you got shoot.

 

The T34 has an impact on the war, yes. But also the 8.8 has an big impact, killing an russian or american tank on over 1,5km away without any problem, confirmed kills from russian and american tankcrews at around 2,5 to 3,0km, it was the most feared antitank gun on open grounds.

 

The german problem was allways the quality of its products, the russian lost alone arround 40 000 T34, thats more of all Tanks the german produced, around 25 000.

 

Neo-Nazi revisionism here?

 

No the Russians didn't kill more civilians, actually probably English and Americans were responsible for more civilian deaths in the bombings and nuclear bomb. And I would call it causalities not Kills.

 

Deliberately killing civilians was a Nazi tactic, military tactic and orders. And it was there from the start of the war (for example on the Ukraine in 39), tested and tried on the Spanish Civil War.

 

Nazis didn't even have boots nor coats and were sending teenagers and old people to the front by 1944... Panthers and Tigers were useless, except in defensive positions, air control was lost by the moment the came to the war. T 34 when introduces beat the crap out of all German tanks, having a major role stopping operation Barbarossa... not fictional success like the Tigers.

 

All the tales you read about the Tigers are just tales, propaganda. And by the way, who manufactured the German war products were SLAVES...  Yes NAZIS enslaved more than 10% of its own population for the war effort.

 

You also have to tell me how a country that was lacking in any imaginable product, that didn't have enough to manufacture socks and boots to the army, can produce superior Tanks, maybe they had magicians working with them....


Edited by pecopad, 06 July 2018 - 10:42 AM.


Karasu_Hidesuke #45 Posted 06 July 2018 - 10:40 AM

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View PostGremlin182, on 06 July 2018 - 06:41 AM, said:

 

German tactical victory in one part of the battle Russian Strategic victory overall.

So whats the problem.

If one side can replace every lost man and machine and the other side cannot they will lose eventually.

Which they did as after Kursk it was practically fighting defensive battles from then on.

Propaganda machine was still working well according to them the German armies were advancing on all fronts though curiously every reported advance and success was closer to Berlin ;)

 

Germany and her European allies were essentially all landlocked due to Allied Naval supremacy despite their U-boats being very successful at sinking allied tonnage. In retrospect, Germany's war planning failed strategically as they would have needed to invest more in their submarine fleet and naval air superiority along with strategic bombers. Not sure if it had been able to change the outcome, though.

 

That is essentially the same setting and the same results that we see during WW1. Germany lost the war of attrition then, and lost it again in WW2 despite being able to prolong the inevitable defeat. Most people would attribute this to Speer's abilities more than anything else.

 

Based on how things worked out in WW1, many people in 1941 expected Germany again to able to defeat the Soviet Union but ultimately lose the war to the Allied, due to economic and strategic factors. They were half right, then, you could say as Germany failed to win the Soviet Union due to a number of factors that made the strategic situation different from what it had been during WW1.



pecopad #46 Posted 06 July 2018 - 11:06 AM

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View PostBrowarszky, on 06 July 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

 

Germany and her European allies were essentially all landlocked due to Allied Naval supremacy despite their U-boats being very successful at sinking allied tonnage. In retrospect, Germany's war planning failed strategically as they would have needed to invest more in their submarine fleet and naval air superiority along with strategic bombers. Not sure if it had been able to change the outcome, though.

 

That is essentially the same setting and the same results that we see during WW1. Germany lost the war of attrition then, and lost it again in WW2 despite being able to prolong the inevitable defeat. Most people would attribute this to Speer's abilities more than anything else.

 

Based on how things worked out in WW1, many people in 1941 expected Germany again to able to defeat the Soviet Union but ultimately lose the war to the Allied, due to economic and strategic factors. They were half right, then, you could say as Germany failed to win the Soviet Union due to a number of factors that made the strategic situation different from what it had been during WW1.

 

70% of was causalities in a war are not due to army engagements, but directly to the health and living conditions of the troops. It has been like this since ancient times.

 

German war doctrine and strategy was just stupid. It failed on the fundamentals - lack of logistics and respect towards people, both their own soldiers and the population.

 

Nazis had nothing to offer except misery and death, and to some the belief they were superiors to other human beings.They were bound to fail the moment other countries started preparing for war.

 

We also have to take into consideration +40 years of communism counter propaganda in the west... If the soviets were good at something it was with logistics and engineering, they were also selling equality....


Edited by pecopad, 06 July 2018 - 11:11 AM.


Karasu_Hidesuke #47 Posted 06 July 2018 - 11:19 AM

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View Postpecopad, on 06 July 2018 - 10:06 AM, said:

 

We also have to take into consideration +40 years of communism counter propaganda in the west... If the soviets were good at something it was with logistics and engineering, they were also selling equality....

 

Yes, I can see that...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uITpC_9FQTo



r0f #48 Posted 06 July 2018 - 12:31 PM

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Aaah the weekend. Today just for funsies I asked colleges if all the time we spend on something should be regarded as free, apart from them not agreeing the boss was also there and he said that with all the revenue we generate at the business and the time it takes away from personal life, if anyone would ever regard any of our time as free or even cheap we should leave immediately. That man is richer than any of you would believe so no point in expressing anyway.

 

Really makes you think about the tactics modern games are pulling on people, mostly young people I might add.

 

Next review talk is going to be interesting now though :trollface:  The game is nice, wouldn't be here otherwise. Just do not get caught in the claws of dying light. Have fun buddies. :great:

 

#TeamAFK

 

 

edit: and where the **** is front-line? !!


Edited by r0f, 06 July 2018 - 12:34 PM.


Lord_Barbarozza #49 Posted 06 July 2018 - 01:20 PM

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The tank will be a collection tank you play a few times maybe, but it motivates people to play the game and spend money regardless.

 

The biggest price is the mission rewards leading up to the premium tank.



Neoiceman #50 Posted 06 July 2018 - 02:14 PM

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View Postpecopad, on 06 July 2018 - 09:28 AM, said:

 

Neo-Nazi revisionism here?

 

No the Russians didn't kill more civilians, actually probably English and Americans were responsible for more civilian deaths in the bombings and nuclear bomb. And I would call it causalities not Kills.

 

Deliberately killing civilians was a Nazi tactic, military tactic and orders. And it was there from the start of the war (for example on the Ukraine in 39), tested and tried on the Spanish Civil War.

 

Nazis didn't even have boots nor coats and were sending teenagers and old people to the front by 1944... Panthers and Tigers were useless, except in defensive positions, air control was lost by the moment the came to the war. T 34 when introduces beat the crap out of all German tanks, having a major role stopping operation Barbarossa... not fictional success like the Tigers.

 

All the tales you read about the Tigers are just tales, propaganda. And by the way, who manufactured the German war products were SLAVES...  Yes NAZIS enslaved more than 10% of its own population for the war effort.

 

You also have to tell me how a country that was lacking in any imaginable product, that didn't have enough to manufacture socks and boots to the army, can produce superior Tanks, maybe they had magicians working with them....

Russian propaganda is strong with this one.

 

Russian Army and Russian Goverment kills far more people at WWII than any other country.

Russian sending Planes to kill an PZ IV because they think is an Tiger and shitting their pants.

15% of the T34 breaking after the first 5km.

The defensive Attack style was another german tactic, because everyone knows about the blitzkieg tactic and we could fight against the lame russian Tanks by far more than 2km, and the T34 had to come close to 500m to be an enemy for the Tiger frontal armor.

 

Modern Test showing that the 8.8 was an killer an with more wolfram ammo the german could be far more effective against every tank on the battlefield up to 5km. The russian canons up to 122mm have some good punch aginst some easy targets and low armored tanks but against the high armor like Tiger II and Jagdtiger they where useless at 1,5km and above because of the small ammount of propellant they used, if they had hit the target :) most german tanks on the russian front where stopped because of fuel shortage and engine problems, not because of enemy fire.

The only thing the russian where dangerous about was the locust tactic, swarm the enemy till the moment their ammo went out.



Karasu_Hidesuke #51 Posted 06 July 2018 - 03:31 PM

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View Postr0f, on 06 July 2018 - 11:31 AM, said:

 

 

 

edit: and where the **** is front-line? !!

 

Hi, Nige! :teethhappy:



Slayer1939 #52 Posted 29 July 2018 - 11:41 AM

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View Postpecopad, on 05 July 2018 - 03:45 PM, said:

 

Kursk battle ended the war,Germans lost it and took a beating.

 

Germans didn't lose much of the new tanks because they didn't used them. It was like the Bismark stunt, all propaganda to keep morale high.

 

By 1944 Russians had air and ground superiority... The Tank superiority was massive, they could probably just ram all the German Tigers and Panthers without even having to fire a single round, or drowning the the crews just by pissing on them ...It wasn't even an issue, they had  so many more and better tanks than the Germans.

 

Germans were only good beating unprepared, peaceful armies, parading and propaganda stunts.Reality is that by mid 1943 the German Army was already  a big mess,beaten army, under supplied, under staffed, under trained.

 

The tank that won the war was the T 34, stopping the Germans from invading Russia and  effectively being massively superior to anything the Germans had, and beating the crap out of them.

 

Panthers and Tigers had virtually no impact, they were propaganda stunts.

 

 

 

 



You actually believe this don't you. Very strange belief, check all the history books for the facts.
 





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