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"25% RNG is fine"


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zipo111 #1 Posted 06 July 2018 - 01:40 PM

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Driving my 5A I spotted afk 121 in the enemy base, 1st shoot i bounced (AP) then i loaded HEAT and next 4 shoots either missed or flew into tracks. The best part is that distance was around 200m and I have good crew and I'm using food (shoots were fully aimed). So instead of nearlly 2k dmg i got frustrated and slaped in the face by RNG. But no WG, 25% RNG is fine. If you want to frustrate your playerbase, sure.

djuro900 #2 Posted 06 July 2018 - 01:41 PM

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Replay?

StinkyStonky #3 Posted 06 July 2018 - 01:50 PM

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Oh BooHoo, are your feelings of entitlement offended ?

 

In another game your first 2 shots would ammo rack them, so I suggest you just get over yourself.

 

While we're on the topic of RNG, you do realise that the 25% is a normal distribution, not linear ?  So 10% is a much more accurate "description" of the actual behaviour of the RNG.



Balc0ra #4 Posted 06 July 2018 - 02:35 PM

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View Postzipo111, on 06 July 2018 - 01:40 PM, said:

Driving my 5A I spotted afk 121 in the enemy base, 1st shoot i bounced (AP) then i loaded HEAT and next 4 shoots either missed or flew into tracks. The best part is that distance was around 200m and I have good crew and I'm using food (shoots were fully aimed). So instead of nearlly 2k dmg i got frustrated and slaped in the face by RNG. But no WG, 25% RNG is fine. If you want to frustrate your playerbase, sure.

 

Even with HEAT and 25% low RNG and a bad crew, you would still have a 100% chance on the front hull. But dispersion is a different factor vs 25% RNG. Your gun has 0.39 dispersion with no crew skills or equipment to compensate for it. At 200m that's 0.78. Exclude the 4.8% of shots that will drop outside the circle. You will miss a few at that range. Even with 0% RNG. That and how HEAT works. As hitting the mantle or tracks, you don't have enough to compensate for the pen loss over distance after impact, regardless of % RNG.you got. 

 

And tbh... that "other game" did try with no RNG during closed beta. Did not work too well, as the + RNG is there for a reason. Tho the 25% low roll is arguably too high. The +25% should be there IMO. 


Edited by Balc0ra, 06 July 2018 - 02:36 PM.


Homer_J #5 Posted 06 July 2018 - 02:43 PM

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View Postzipo111, on 06 July 2018 - 01:40 PM, said:

 next 4 shoots either missed or flew into tracks

 

What does that have to do with 25% RNG which is only on damage and penetration?

NUKLEAR_SLUG #6 Posted 06 July 2018 - 02:44 PM

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Some RNG is good. If it wasn't there you'd have people just YOLOing you knowing there was an absolute guarantee that they could kill you and no chance you could 'roll high' and save yourself.

zipo111 #7 Posted 06 July 2018 - 02:45 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 06 July 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:

 

Even with HEAT and 25% low RNG and a bad crew, you would still have a 100% chance on the front hull. But dispersion is a different factor vs 25% RNG. Your gun has 0.39 dispersion with no crew skills or equipment to compensate for it. At 200m that's 0.78. Exclude the 4.8% of shots that will drop outside the circle. You will miss a few at that range. Even with 0% RNG. That and how HEAT works. As hitting the mantle or tracks, you don't have enough to compensate for the pen loss over distance after impact, regardless of % RNG.you got. 

 

And tbh... that "other game" did try with no RNG during closed beta. Did not work too well, as the + RNG is there for a reason. Tho the 25% low roll is arguably too high. The +25% should be there IMO. 

 

I have I feeling you don't know what you're talking.. You're saying there isn't RNG on where does your shell land? Yes you have dispersion but then RNG kick's in to put the shell somewhere in that circle and if I aimed and there was 0 RNG my shell would land exactly where I aimed it. And yea, I probably shouzldn't have mentioned shell types because it is not important for this.

Baldrickk #8 Posted 06 July 2018 - 02:45 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 06 July 2018 - 02:43 PM, said:

 

What does that have to do with 25% RNG which is only on damage and penetration?

 

well, there is RNG on accuracy too...

zipo111 #9 Posted 06 July 2018 - 02:48 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 06 July 2018 - 01:43 PM, said:

 

What does that have to do with 25% RNG which is only on damage and penetration?

 

RNG (without % in this case) puts your shell somewhere in the aiming circle, you remember when they considered changing RNG for that in sandbox (where they wanted to make armour work by nerfing accuracy instead of nerfing premium shells) 

Homer_J #10 Posted 06 July 2018 - 02:49 PM

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View PostBaldrickk, on 06 July 2018 - 02:45 PM, said:

 

well, there is RNG on accuracy too...

 

Not 25% though. ;)  Can you even put a %age on accuracy RNG?  Pretty near 100% won't hit dead centre.  OP specifically mentions the 25%.

zipo111 #11 Posted 06 July 2018 - 03:00 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 06 July 2018 - 01:49 PM, said:

 

Not 25% though. ;)  Can you even put a %age on accuracy RNG?  Pretty near 100% won't hit dead centre.  OP specifically mentions the 25%.

 

Yea I put 25% because they said that 25% is fine, maybe on dmg but penetration is another story. :)

Cobra6 #12 Posted 06 July 2018 - 03:20 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 06 July 2018 - 01:43 PM, said:

 

What does that have to do with 25% RNG which is only on damage and penetration?

 

Well it was a Chinese tank so roughly only 25% of the shells even work, like with all their products :hiding:

 

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tankqull #13 Posted 06 July 2018 - 03:32 PM

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View Postzipo111, on 06 July 2018 - 12:40 PM, said:

Driving my 5A I spotted afk 121 in the enemy base, 1st shoot i bounced (AP) then i loaded HEAT and next 4 shoots either missed or flew into tracks. The best part is that distance was around 200m and I have good crew and I'm using food (shoots were fully aimed). So instead of nearlly 2k dmg i got frustrated and slaped in the face by RNG. But no WG, 25% RNG is fine. If you want to frustrate your playerbase, sure.

 

well you need to get your facts right.

nothing you complain about is tied to the 25% RNG effect beside your first shot potentially having the penvalue decreased by up to 25%...

 

View PostBaldrickk, on 06 July 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:

 

well, there is RNG on accuracy too...

 

sure but its tied to a gausian distribution and not a flat 25% array...


Edited by tankqull, 06 July 2018 - 03:36 PM.


Grand_Moff_Tano #14 Posted 06 July 2018 - 03:55 PM

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I've missed shots at 50 meters before now due to RNG. And no that is not because I went the Storm Trooper academy for Target Practice.

Edited by Grand_Moff_Tano, 06 July 2018 - 03:55 PM.


Dorander #15 Posted 06 July 2018 - 05:24 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 06 July 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:

 

Exclude the 4.8% of shots that will drop outside the circle. 

 

Wait what? 4.8% of shots won't even fall within the (outer) aiming circle at all?



250swb #16 Posted 06 July 2018 - 05:46 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 06 July 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:

 

That and how HEAT works. As hitting the mantle or tracks, you don't have enough to compensate for the pen loss over distance after impact, regardless of % RNG.you got

 

Except HEAT (and HESH) shells don't lose penetration over distance.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #17 Posted 06 July 2018 - 05:51 PM

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View PostDorander, on 06 July 2018 - 06:24 PM, said:

 

Wait what? 4.8% of shots won't even fall within the (outer) aiming circle at all?

 

From the Wiki...

 

Block Quote

 The aiming circle (also called the dispersion circle, dispersion indicator or reticle) describes the area of 2 standard deviations (2σ;) from your aim point. Based on a standard normal distribution, this means that 4.2% of your shots would fall outside of the aiming circle. The shots move (deviate) away from your aim point, outwards toward the edge of the circle, but rarely shoot past its edge.

 

So yes it can happen very rarely and if you search the forums or youtube you can find some examples of this.



Homer_J #18 Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:33 PM

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View PostDorander, on 06 July 2018 - 05:24 PM, said:

 

Wait what? 4.8% of shots won't even fall within the (outer) aiming circle at all?

 

View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 06 July 2018 - 05:51 PM, said:

 

From the Wiki...

 

 

So yes it can happen very rarely and if you search the forums or youtube you can find some examples of this.

 

If the wiki doesn't go on to explain what happens to shots which fall outside the circle then it is out of date.

 

Anything falling outside the circle is rerolled with a flat distribution.

 

Any youtube videos are either very old or show lag.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #19 Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:46 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 06 July 2018 - 09:33 PM, said:

 

Any youtube videos are either very old or show lag.

 

 

Nothing changed regarding accuracy since this video and it doesn't show any lag.

 

Got any sources of your own?



Dorander #20 Posted 06 July 2018 - 10:08 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 06 July 2018 - 07:46 PM, said:

<snipped vid for space>

 

Nothing changed regarding accuracy since this video and it doesn't show any lag.

 

Got any sources of your own?

 

That first shot does look really iffy indeed, but wasn't there a bug with the aiming circle not too long ago? The second shot most likely hits a solid object hitbox as far as I can see (camera and barrel don't line up perfectly but even if they did, about 20% of the aimcircle is over hard cover), the third shot is dispersed but within the circle, it just looks to go outside of the aim circle because of the firing arc. If there's no bug I can't explain the first shot either, thanks for the explanation and wiki quote.

 

View PostHomer_J, on 06 July 2018 - 07:33 PM, said:

 

 

If the wiki doesn't go on to explain what happens to shots which fall outside the circle then it is out of date.

 

Anything falling outside the circle is rerolled with a flat distribution.

 

Any youtube videos are either very old or show lag.

 

So if I understand you correctly, a shot that falls outside the circle gets reaimed to within the circle? Is that a recent change to the aiming mechanics?

 

I do vaguely recall Wargaming claiming when they changed the accuracy values that roughly about a third of your shots would end up inside the inner circle and two-thirds in the remaining area... I have to admit I've never seen a shot deviate from my aiming circle myself.


Edited by Dorander, 06 July 2018 - 10:08 PM.





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