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PMM Tier 8s


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axell92108 #1 Posted 07 July 2018 - 03:47 AM

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Can anyone remind me why so many people are against PMM Tier 8s losing their PMM? Have those people ever played PMM Tier 8s like 112 or IS-6 in a battle against O-Ho's, VKP's, ST-I's, Conquerors, T-54's, Defenders, etc?

 

Jagtiger 88 can't do anything in a full tier 8 game most of time.

 

The only thing that can save these tanks is a rebalance to +2 MM. Their guns don't work anymore, unless the enemy tier 8's have bad armor or are zombies showing side armor or weakspots.

 

WG says PMM tanks screw up with the MM system. I think it's the other way around. MM screws PMM tanks because many of the best Tier 8 tanks are essentially Tier 8.5 with meaty guns.

 

On the other hand, other PMM tiers (5-7) are much stronger tier for tier, due to obvious reasons (lack of powercreep in mid tiers, only powercreepers in tier 6 are T-34-85M and the OP italian crap with 240 alpha and strong armor)


Edited by axell92108, 07 July 2018 - 03:48 AM.


Wintermute_1 #2 Posted 07 July 2018 - 04:14 AM

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Yeah I have a 112 and pretty much have to avoid brawling with same tier or better enemy heavies. I sure as crap wont be spamming gold in a tank i bought to make credits. You have to go find some meds to fight which doesnt always go down well with the team. 

Not playing it much at the moment. I'll wait and see how they buff it when they remove the PMM, if its inadequate I'll swap it out for somthing else.

Basically, the 3/5/7 MM template makes the 'perma bottom' tier 8 PMM tanks redundant.



falcon_96 #3 Posted 07 July 2018 - 08:15 AM

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View Postaxell92108, on 07 July 2018 - 02:47 AM, said:

Can anyone remind me why so many people are against PMM Tier 8s losing their PMM? Have those people ever played PMM Tier 8s like 112 or IS-6 in a battle against O-Ho's, VKP's, ST-I's, Conquerors, T-54's, Defenders, etc?

 

Jagtiger 88 can't do anything in a full tier 8 game most of time.

 

The only thing that can save these tanks is a rebalance to +2 MM. Their guns don't work anymore, unless the enemy tier 8's have bad armor or are zombies showing side armor or weakspots.

 

WG says PMM tanks screw up with the MM system. I think it's the other way around. MM screws PMM tanks because many of the best Tier 8 tanks are essentially Tier 8.5 with meaty guns.

 

On the other hand, other PMM tiers (5-7) are much stronger tier for tier, due to obvious reasons (lack of powercreep in mid tiers, only powercreepers in tier 6 are T-34-85M and the OP italian crap with 240 alpha and strong armor)

 

I have the Super Pershing now and i enjoy playing it(most of the times), previously i had the WZ-111, which i exchanged for a M4 Rev(Best! Deal! Eveeeer!)
The pref MM tanks need rebalance and they need it badly, that much is certain, however here we run into another problem, some of the people that bought pref premiums did so specifically because they did not want to play +2MM, a buff and removal of the pref MM will be very displeasing to those people, because the only reason they bought those undergunned tin cans was to avoid fighting tier 10. They don't want better guns or armor or speed, they just want to play their tanks without meeting bobjects or other "balanced" tier 10 against whom their buffed tier 8s would be useless.

However, some people like me and you have no problem with losing the pref MM and gaining much more competitive(at least in tier 8/9 battles) tanks, so the solution of this entire mess imo, is the following:
1.WG pulls all pref MM tanks from regular sale(if they are soooo "bad" for the MM stop selling them!)
2.WG applies a minor buffs to all pref MM premiums.
3.After those minor buffs, WG creates another version of each tier 8 pref premium, that is substantially better, BUT without pref MM.
Example:
Normal IS-6, pref MM, horribad 175mm pen gun, meh speed.----> New and improved IS-6 "Gopnik" a badass assault heavy in the T-10 style, fast, with punchy fast firing gun(at least by 122mm standards), only lightly buffed armor and no pref MM( +bonus all-weather tracksuit cammo, bottles of vodka on the barrel instead of MoE and a gopnik squatting on the engine deck for the ultimate cheeki breeki experience!)
4. Give all the pref MM tank owners a choice. Either they keep their pref MM versions with only minor buffs, or they exchange them for the majorly buffed new standard MM version of the tank.
5. Introduce the new versions in shop to replace the pref MM ones.

In that way, i think everyone is happy, those of us who do not care that much about meeting tier 10s get a more competitive version of the tank, those that want to keep their pref MM tanks can do it, and as many will take the swap deal WG will be happy as well, since there will be fewer pref MM tanks to "ruin" their "perfect" MM.

r0f #4 Posted 07 July 2018 - 08:19 AM

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I don't think anyone is disagreeing with them needing buffs. People are disagreeing with them losing their PMM.

 

Let me type that again as it might even ding; people are not disagreeing with them needing buffs, people are disagreeing with them losing their PMM.

 

Besides that their KV5 example loses nearly all of its armor and PMM (still with a pea-shooter and now up against TX). :trollface:

 

 


Edited by r0f, 07 July 2018 - 08:21 AM.


spamhamstar #5 Posted 07 July 2018 - 08:35 AM

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As Wintermute said, the problem only really became a problem when they introduced the 3,5,7 mm which basically screwed tier 8s, meaning PMMs are now pretty much always up against tier 8 & 9 tanks which, as you say, they're generally not very effective against.

 

I used to love the IS6, as it was great against lower tiers & was top tier what felt like a lot of the time.  The armour felt decent & the gun was effective against a lot of the opponents you'd face.  After the mm changes tho it was pretty much redundant.

 

PMM was also the main selling point of these tanks & I suspect that even if they buff them, they won't be buffed to the same level as some of the newer non PMM tanks.  Can you seriously see them buffing the IS6 to the same level as the Defender, for example? 

 

It also gave you another option if you were sick of facing +2 mm, but now you just get constant +1 mm instead in a tank that can't really cope with it.

 

So WG have basically broken a lot of these tanks with the changes they've made to the MM.  They now announce that it's these same tanks that are now causing a problem with the MM, despite most of them being in the game forever.  So their solution is to remove the main reason a lot of players bought these tanks in the 1st place & their offer of compensation on the kv5 has also led to further unrest as the gold offered would not cover the cost of any current tier 8 prem heavy tank without PMM.

 

I get that a lot of people might feel that it's the MM that needs fixed & not the PMM tanks.



Balc0ra #6 Posted 07 July 2018 - 10:55 AM

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View Postaxell92108, on 07 July 2018 - 03:47 AM, said:

Can anyone remind me why so many people are against PMM Tier 8s losing their PMM? Have those people ever played PMM Tier 8s like 112 or IS-6 in a battle against O-Ho's, VKP's, ST-I's, Conquerors, T-54's, Defenders, etc?

 

Jagtiger 88 can't do anything in a full tier 8 game most of time.

 

My T26E4 still works, as it has more or less the same pen as every tier 8 US +2 MM med. IS-6? Less so. I don't play mine due to how useless it is in +0 games. That mine gets 80% of the time it feels like. Sure it works on the med line. But once the HT line is lost, and you have to fight the Defenders or VK 100.01. Forget about it, even with gold loaded. And I'm sure many feel the same way about their pref MM tanks. 

 

View Postaxell92108, on 07 July 2018 - 03:47 AM, said:

 

The only thing that can save these tanks is a rebalance to +2 MM. Their guns don't work anymore, unless the enemy tier 8's have bad armor or are zombies showing side armor or weakspots.

 

WG says PMM tanks screw up with the MM system. I think it's the other way around. MM screws PMM tanks because many of the best Tier 8 tanks are essentially Tier 8.5 with meaty guns.

 

On the other hand, other PMM tiers (5-7) are much stronger tier for tier, due to obvious reasons (lack of powercreep in mid tiers, only powercreepers in tier 6 are T-34-85M and the OP italian crap with 240 alpha and strong armor)

 

Yes and no. IMO, or rather from my experience. MM is indeed screwing up pref MM tanks. As I would rather have +1 in my IS-6 all day, vs +0 games. But giving them +2 is the only solution if WG is so hellbent on keeping the 3-5-7 MM. IMO +0 games are not working too well on some tiers due to tier balance. Tier 8 is the worst one IMO. As some normal tier 8 HT's even, have less pen then tier most tier 8 meds. Facing 220mm weakspot tanks on their own tier with 200 or less mm pen. 5-10 is fine tbh, but +0 games to name one is far from ideal there. Tier 12 MM was removed in the past for a reason, that reason is showing its face yet again. As Circon said, 3-5-7 should be a last resort, not a main one for the MM. As there are too many factors on the 3 alone. Inc having one top tier afk all match. 3-5-7 is fine for new players on tier 4, so they don't get swarmed by +2 instantly. But for old vets, or even on high tiers? Do you really need it? 

 

Buff the guns in the KV-5 and IS-6 to around 210 ish, and jump the gold to 240 to 255 ish. And it can still keep it's pref MM, and still fight on the HT line. As even the T26E4 got a pen buff from 172 or whatever it had, to the current 192, due to the "targets" he faced. 

 

As for lower down? I don't see how they will fix it there if they do on most tanks. E25 works fine as is, and would be odd with that gun, even with more pen fighting tier 9. Its alpha is too low, and so is the ammo load. The Challenger got it's 17 prd removed as it's top gun for the same reasons. And can you imagine the Tog in a +2 game? 



Xandania #7 Posted 07 July 2018 - 11:26 AM

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Can't really complain about the Chinese pmm heavies, both seem to deliver good results as their armor can hold its ground against many tier 9 guns. Although I have to play them very agressive, like driving streigth toward some poor sod and then shoot him in the side. Usually they do turn to face you and your team (if applicable) gets their side next.

enu_ #8 Posted 07 July 2018 - 04:02 PM

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View Postaxell92108, on 07 July 2018 - 04:47 AM, said:

Can anyone remind me why so many people are against PMM Tier 8s losing their PMM? Have those people ever played PMM Tier 8s like 112 or IS-6 in a battle against O-Ho's, VKP's, ST-I's, Conquerors, T-54's, Defenders, etc?

because we bought those tanks only for their PMM, and back then you could play them. i would never buy them if they were normal t8 premium tanks


Edited by enu_, 07 July 2018 - 04:03 PM.


_b_ #9 Posted 07 July 2018 - 04:20 PM

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What Enu_ said!

 

And that WG with murazor managed to introduce close to broken new Super heavies at tier XIII isn't much of a reason to remove pmm.  Would rather they gave them new ones some actual weakspots :/



FatigueGalaxy #10 Posted 07 July 2018 - 07:27 PM

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View Postenu_, on 07 July 2018 - 04:02 PM, said:

because we bought those tanks only for their PMM, and back then you could play them. i would never buy them if they were normal t8 premium tanks

 

Yeah, but does it still matter since PMM lost its value? Playing those tanks puts you at disadvantage in every single battle.

What are other solutions? You can either change PMM tanks or return old MM, essentially bringing back "IS-6 glory days" and screwing tier 6 and 7 MM - and you will still be in a tier 7.5 tank, fighting Defenders, Patriots, VK100.01P and O-Ho's...

 

PMM tanks have no place in the game in their current form, even with +0 MM. Rebalancing them is the only solution - of course with full refund, for those who will be not happy with the changes. TBH, those tanks should be available for refund even now - since new MM destroyed their major feature.



enu_ #11 Posted 07 July 2018 - 10:18 PM

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View PostFatigueGalaxy, on 07 July 2018 - 08:27 PM, said:

 

What are other solutions? You can either change PMM tanks or return old MM, essentially bringing back "IS-6 glory days" and screwing tier 6 and 7 MM - and you will still be in a tier 7.5 tank, fighting Defenders, Patriots, VK100.01P and O-Ho's...

or you can give players option for full refund and remove PMM



vasilinhorulezz #12 Posted 08 July 2018 - 09:41 AM

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View Postaxell92108, on 07 July 2018 - 03:47 AM, said:

Can anyone remind me why so many people are against PMM Tier 8s losing their PMM? Have those people ever played PMM Tier 8s like 112 or IS-6 in a battle against O-Ho's, VKP's, ST-I's, Conquerors, T-54's, Defenders, etc?

 

Jagtiger 88 can't do anything in a full tier 8 game most of time.

 

The only thing that can save these tanks is a rebalance to +2 MM. Their guns don't work anymore, unless the enemy tier 8's have bad armor or are zombies showing side armor or weakspots.

 

WG says PMM tanks screw up with the MM system. I think it's the other way around. MM screws PMM tanks because many of the best Tier 8 tanks are essentially Tier 8.5 with meaty guns.

 

On the other hand, other PMM tiers (5-7) are much stronger tier for tier, due to obvious reasons (lack of powercreep in mid tiers, only powercreepers in tier 6 are T-34-85M and the OP italian crap with 240 alpha and strong armor)

 

Because it was their selling point.

Nothing more to say.

People buy them because they don't meet tier 10s.



CurseOfDeath #13 Posted 08 July 2018 - 09:40 PM

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Do we have any news regarding the status of this change ?

 

Are they going to try to apply the KV5 treament to other tanks ? Can they show us the results of the buffed kv5 ?

 

I am eager to hear more about this, as i personally really dont like my PMM anymore. They are all so UP nowadays. I would gladly trade them for other more recent vehicles.

 

The only reason i bought them was that they were the best money makers at their time. But as we are in the middle of 2018 and we are approaching 2019, Jt88, WZ111, FCM50t - my PMMs - are simply underperforming in every aspect and a playing them is a struggle and in the same time your a burden for your team.

 

Therefore changing them is a necesity. It doesnt matter if they got PMM or not the need to do what they were meant for and that is to print credits and allow us to spend 80% of our time in tier 10 games.

 


Edited by CurseOfDeath, 08 July 2018 - 09:43 PM.


Alabamatick #14 Posted 08 July 2018 - 11:37 PM

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View Postaxell92108, on 07 July 2018 - 02:47 AM, said:

Can anyone remind me why so many people are against PMM Tier 8s losing their PMM? Have those people ever played PMM Tier 8s like 112 or IS-6 in a battle against O-Ho's, VKP's, ST-I's, Conquerors, T-54's, Defenders, etc?

 

Jagtiger 88 can't do anything in a full tier 8 game most of time.

 

The only thing that can save these tanks is a rebalance to +2 MM. Their guns don't work anymore, unless the enemy tier 8's have bad armor or are zombies showing side armor or weakspots.

 

WG says PMM tanks screw up with the MM system. I think it's the other way around. MM screws PMM tanks because many of the best Tier 8 tanks are essentially Tier 8.5 with meaty guns.

 

On the other hand, other PMM tiers (5-7) are much stronger tier for tier, due to obvious reasons (lack of powercreep in mid tiers, only powercreepers in tier 6 are T-34-85M and the OP italian crap with 240 alpha and strong armor)

 

My JT 88 did just fine in Frontlines

Warzey #15 Posted 09 July 2018 - 02:05 AM

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View Postvasilinhorulezz, on 08 July 2018 - 08:41 AM, said:

 

Because it was their selling point.

Nothing more to say.

People buy them because they don't meet tier 10s.

 

I reckon that fairly small number of players bought PMM tanks only because they don't meet T10s. Feedback was negative mostly due to WGs reasoning or rather the way they wrote it and their refund policy. 

I'm sure most of the PMM tank owners would like to see their tanks buffed to playable level, I know I would. 

 






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