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jabster #61 Posted 12 July 2018 - 05:04 PM

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View Postevilchaosmonkey, on 12 July 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

That's a fair summary. 

After lumping it forward we failed to position ourselves to take advantage.

 

As to what's next, in the pit of my stomach I am hoping that some experience and maturity will go along way - half time, Croatia clearly worked out what to do next and we didn't.

Redknapp's right - a midfield gem is needed.

 

Fair play to them though, I was seriously believing we'd be out long before now.

 

I don’t think it’s a case of failing to take position but instead that there’s very few players that can take advantage of it. So as an example Drogba was actually very good at winning the ball and either being the one man hero or holding it up for support to arrive. Our attacking players are far more about exploiting space that they’ve created and that really does require the midfield to make those passes.



AliceUnchained #62 Posted 12 July 2018 - 05:08 PM

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View PostJabba_The_Mutt, on 12 July 2018 - 12:01 AM, said:

Lemme guess...you're dutch?

 

Truth is, I preferred Belgium winning and thus advancing but based on the game itself I do think France had a better claim to the win. The stereotype that every Dutch person has a dislike for Belgium and/or Germany is wasted on me; I had no issues with Germany winning in 2014, and would have had no issues with Belgium winning now. I also had no issues with Germany getting knocked out, as they failed to deliver. But not simply because they're Germans. It was kind of amusing to see how much trouble they had with Mexico though, which itself was a pleasant surprise then but a big disappointment later against Sweden.

Frostilicus #63 Posted 12 July 2018 - 05:49 PM

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View Postjabster, on 12 July 2018 - 04:04 PM, said:

 

I don’t think it’s a case of failing to take position but instead that there’s very few players that can take advantage of it. So as an example Drogba was actually very good at winning the ball and either being the one man hero or holding it up for support to arrive. Our attacking players are far more about exploiting space that they’ve created and that really does require the midfield to make those passes.

 

Kane can play hold up, but I think he was pushed too far towards the midfield to make a meaningful contribution. As you rightly point out, the "lump it forward" tactic was naive and Croatia deserved their win in the end. 

All good learning points for a young team, hopefully they can give a good account of themselves in the euros in 2020 :)



jabster #64 Posted 12 July 2018 - 06:05 PM

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View PostFrostilicus, on 12 July 2018 - 04:49 PM, said:

 

Kane can play hold up, but I think he was pushed too far towards the midfield to make a meaningful contribution. As you rightly point out, the "lump it forward" tactic was naive and Croatia deserved their win in the end. 

All good learning points for a young team, hopefully they can give a good account of themselves in the euros in 2020 :)

 

Well I think that it’s he can try and play the hold up game but it’s still really not his game. As for him dropping deep, kinda what happens when the midfield has disappeared and you’re not going to get the ball otherwise.

 

I’m not sure it was naive as such but more that we didn’t have a real answer to when Croatia countered the game plan in the first half. The idea was to play the ball from the back using the wingbacks to counter very quickly. When they’re spending all their time supporting the defence it doesn’t really work.



LordMuffin #65 Posted 13 July 2018 - 04:56 AM

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Maybe FIFA should let England won to spare England some suffering.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/world-cup-england-match-2018-domestic-violence-women-football-police-a8441151.html

LordMuffin #66 Posted 13 July 2018 - 04:58 AM

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View PostAliceUnchained, on 12 July 2018 - 05:08 PM, said:

 

Truth is, I preferred Belgium winning and thus advancing but based on the game itself I do think France had a better claim to the win. The stereotype that every Dutch person has a dislike for Belgium and/or Germany is wasted on me; I had no issues with Germany winning in 2014, and would have had no issues with Belgium winning now. I also had no issues with Germany getting knocked out, as they failed to deliver. But not simply because they're Germans. It was kind of amusing to see how much trouble they had with Mexico though, which itself was a pleasant surprise then but a big disappointment later against Sweden.

The Germans where a big disappointment all over I think.

 

They played like Spain in last WC and like Barcelona in more recent years.

 

Much of holding the ball, very little actual attacking done. Mostly passing it around hoping for a mistake by the other team.



AliceUnchained #67 Posted 13 July 2018 - 06:37 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 13 July 2018 - 04:58 AM, said:

The Germans where a big disappointment all over I think.

 

They played like Spain in last WC and like Barcelona in more recent years.

 

Much of holding the ball, very little actual attacking done. Mostly passing it around hoping for a mistake by the other team.

 

Indeed they were. While it is difficult to play attacking and attractive football against defensive and well organized teams, ball circulation often is at too low a tempo to unravel such opponents. The Netherlands has been suffering from the same syndrome for years now, that low tempo passing around over distances of 5 meters max. With the added issues of lacking quality players, and lacking a drive/passion (they never even seem to go 100%) to make a difference.

 

In plenty of games this WC you see quite big differences in possession, passes, but much smaller in goal attempts/chances. 



jabster #68 Posted 13 July 2018 - 06:42 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 13 July 2018 - 03:56 AM, said:

Maybe FIFA should let England won to spare England some suffering.
https://www.independ...e-a8441151.html

 

Using a serious issue to try and score a cheap point. Stay classy.

SiliconSidewinder #69 Posted 13 July 2018 - 08:16 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 13 July 2018 - 04:58 AM, said:

The Germans where a big disappointment all over I think.

 

They played like Spain in last WC and like Barcelona in more recent years.

 

Much of holding the ball, very little actual attacking done. Mostly passing it around hoping for a mistake by the other team.

 

 

In a way the german problem is it's success in the past:

 

2014 practically the whole german team had been playing, untill very recently, in two teams:

Dortmund and Munich, which had had a exciting rivalry for several years before that, culminating in the 2013 final of the championsleage.

So the 2014 team was basically two halves of two very good and agressive playing teams, that knew each other inside out, put together and let loose.

 

with the values of the players skyrocketing after those two years basically everyone moved on to other bigger, richer, or just better paying clubs.

So now except for a few players that stayed with munich, the rest of the 2014 is spread over the whole of europe, each club training to different tactical ideas.

The result: players that just don't know each other well enough anymore to work together on such a high level and fast pass attacks need that high level or they are just ineffective.

 



LordMuffin #70 Posted 13 July 2018 - 11:13 AM

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View PostAliceUnchained, on 13 July 2018 - 06:37 AM, said:

 

Indeed they were. While it is difficult to play attacking and attractive football against defensive and well organized teams, ball circulation often is at too low a tempo to unravel such opponents. The Netherlands has been suffering from the same syndrome for years now, that low tempo passing around over distances of 5 meters max. With the added issues of lacking quality players, and lacking a drive/passion (they never even seem to go 100%) to make a difference.

 

In plenty of games this WC you see quite big differences in possession, passes, but much smaller in goal attempts/chances. 

Maybe it is time to change some rules in order to create more chances.



AliceUnchained #71 Posted 13 July 2018 - 04:53 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 13 July 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

Maybe it is time to change some rules in order to create more chances.

 

Well we can make suggestion to Marco van Basten... :great:

LordMuffin #72 Posted 13 July 2018 - 05:01 PM

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View PostAliceUnchained, on 13 July 2018 - 04:53 PM, said:

 

Well we can make suggestion to Marco van Basten... :great:

I propose effective time.






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