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TheGhostlySheep #1 Posted 08 July 2018 - 12:05 PM

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I am by no means an outstanding player, I'm very much average. However, this doesn't really affect the accuracy of your shots. I mainly play the JP2 which has a .34 dispersion value, this isn't really good at very long distances but it should, in theory allow you to at least hit teh tank fairly reliably and allow you to hit weak spots at mid to short ranges. This is not at all what I experience, many times. An example I shot an obj 705A at long range 3 times, none of the shells were even close to the tank, he shoots back with his .42 dispersion and hits my lower plate perfectly. Kind of ridiculous. Another time I was shooting for a t28's cupola at VERY short range, he was about 15 meters in front of me and my gun insisted on shooting just below it where I couldn't pen. Or last example, my last game just now, had a t54 ltwt. about 150 meters away from me a good 70% of his tank exposed, shot him 4 times at centre of mass and every single shell hit the dirt. Keep in mind the EVERY SINGLE one of these shots was fully aimed, no gunner injured, no damaged gun and they all just miss when, to be honest they should hit (most of them).

 

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I simply don't feel in control of my gun, I can prepare the shot perfectly but in the end RNG decides whether it goes on target or not, because WG love RNG so damn much.



CircleOfSorrow #2 Posted 08 July 2018 - 12:06 PM

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:popcorn:

Suurpolskija #3 Posted 08 July 2018 - 12:11 PM

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Inb4 Jigabachi wants a replay! 

Dorander #4 Posted 08 July 2018 - 12:12 PM

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Yup, sucks when that happens. There are way worse examples that have been reported on this forum, some were positive for the player reporting them, some negative. We tend to remember the negative ones more because the positive ones were "working as intended".

 

If you're not aiming for a specific weakspot just aim where the largest amount of tank is under your outer aiming circle. Also keep in mind the difference between client reticle and server reticle, either give it a bit more time on aiming or activate server reticle to get more reliable sight.



Suurpolskija #5 Posted 08 July 2018 - 12:17 PM

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A positive example of RNG: 

 

I was getting schooled in my T30 by an obviously very skilled player in T-54. I was making a bold move by crossing an opening to protect our cap in the later stages of the game and got surprised my pants down by him. He had superior position on higher ground and some cover to protect most of his hull, while I was suddenly getting shot from multiple directions. 

 

So I took a snapshot while driving from ~100m to his very teeny tiny part of the hull that he was about to expose and what do you know, he exploded for the whole of his 1650hp and I got to safety alive and well. 

 

I also vividly remember a blind shot on a full or almost full HP obj140 in my M41 90mm which exploded his ammorack probably 30 seconds from the start of the game. 

 

Rng is a *edited*!


Edited by NickMustaine, 08 July 2018 - 12:53 PM.
Inappropriate remarks


Enforcer1975 #6 Posted 08 July 2018 - 02:20 PM

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View PostDorander, on 08 July 2018 - 12:12 PM, said:

Yup, sucks when that happens. There are way worse examples that have been reported on this forum, some were positive for the player reporting them, some negative. We tend to remember the negative ones more because the positive ones were "working as intended".

 

If you're not aiming for a specific weakspot just aim where the largest amount of tank is under your outer aiming circle. Also keep in mind the difference between client reticle and server reticle, either give it a bit more time on aiming or activate server reticle to get more reliable sight.

 

But it's still odd that you manage to keep a tank permatracked with your pewpew gun for like 10 shots and suddenly the killshot through the same spot ( like 5m away ) suddenly fails to pen once or even twice despite having a more than sufficient pen even if you had a -25% pen roll or miss entirely. 

Edited by Enforcer1975, 08 July 2018 - 02:21 PM.


Strappster #7 Posted 08 July 2018 - 02:24 PM

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View PostSuurpolskija, on 08 July 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

A positive example of RNG: 

 

I was getting schooled in my T30 by an obviously very skilled player in T-54. I was making a bold move by crossing an opening to protect our cap in the later stages of the game and got surprised my pants down by him. He had superior position on higher ground and some cover to protect most of his hull, while I was suddenly getting shot from multiple directions. 

 

So I took a snapshot while driving from ~100m to his very teeny tiny part of the hull that he was about to expose and what do you know, he exploded for the whole of his 1650hp and I got to safety alive and well. 

 

I also vividly remember a blind shot on a full or almost full HP obj140 in my M41 90mm which exploded his ammorack probably 30 seconds from the start of the game. 

 

Rng is a *edited*!

 

The R in RNG ...

 

:harp:



OIias_of_Sunhillow #8 Posted 08 July 2018 - 02:39 PM

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Crew skills.

LCpl_Jones #9 Posted 08 July 2018 - 02:46 PM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 08 July 2018 - 02:20 PM, said:

 

But it's still odd that you manage to keep a tank permatracked with your pewpew gun for like 10 shots and suddenly the killshot through the same spot ( like 5m away ) suddenly fails to pen once or even twice despite having a more than sufficient pen even if you had a -25% pen roll or miss entirely. 

 

ha ha ha this, that last final killing shot that takes 10 misses and 5 bounces to achieve :teethhappy:

Dorander #10 Posted 08 July 2018 - 02:47 PM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 08 July 2018 - 01:20 PM, said:

 

But it's still odd that you manage to keep a tank permatracked with your pewpew gun for like 10 shots and suddenly the killshot through the same spot ( like 5m away ) suddenly fails to pen once or even twice despite having a more than sufficient pen even if you had a -25% pen roll or miss entirely. 

 

It's hard to say something about this without some real specific details about the gunvalues and target hitbox involved but apparently if you failed to penetrate it you didn't have a 100% chance to pen. I'm also pretty sure tracks count as spaced armour so it's going to be really tricky determining the exact penetration values here.

 

If I have a high chance, let's say 90% chance to hit the area I intend to hit, it's entirely reasonable to see a 10th shot fail, and only somewhat unlucky to see the 11th shot fail as well. The chance of seeing that 9 hit streak is only about 38.7%, the chance of a 10-hit streak is about 35% (which means there's a 65% chance that one or more of those 10 shots missed). The chance of seeing 9 hits out of 11 shots with 90% chance is about 45.5%, so you can expect that to happen nearly half the time.

 

If we were to significantly increase hitchance to 99%, you "only" have a 91% chance to see a 9-hit streak, still pretty common. The chance of firing 11 shots of which 9 were hits is 93%, you'd still expect a failure about one in 15 times.



Bordhaw #11 Posted 08 July 2018 - 03:09 PM

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View PostTheGhostlySheep, on 08 July 2018 - 11:05 AM, said:

I am by no means an outstanding player, I'm very much average. However, this doesn't really affect the accuracy of your shots. I mainly play the JP2 which has a .34 dispersion value, this isn't really good at very long distances but it should, in theory allow you to at least hit teh tank fairly reliably and allow you to hit weak spots at mid to short ranges. This is not at all what I experience, many times. An example I shot an obj 705A at long range 3 times, none of the shells were even close to the tank, he shoots back with his .42 dispersion and hits my lower plate perfectly. Kind of ridiculous. Another time I was shooting for a t28's cupola at VERY short range, he was about 15 meters in front of me and my gun insisted on shooting just below it where I couldn't pen. Or last example, my last game just now, had a t54 ltwt. about 150 meters away from me a good 70% of his tank exposed, shot him 4 times at centre of mass and every single shell hit the dirt. Keep in mind the EVERY SINGLE one of these shots was fully aimed, no gunner injured, no damaged gun and they all just miss when, to be honest they should hit (most of them).

 

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I simply don't feel in control of my gun, I can prepare the shot perfectly but in the end RNG decides whether it goes on target or not, because WG love RNG so damn much.

 

 



Tankyouverymuch2 #12 Posted 08 July 2018 - 03:16 PM

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Accuracy in this game is a lottery... the only skill you need is proper positioning on the map, everything else is completely random. If you ask me that's utter .

 

A shooter that doesn't let you use your aiming skills...

 



AvengerOrion #13 Posted 08 July 2018 - 03:22 PM

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View PostTankyouverymuch2, on 08 July 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

Accuracy in this game is a lottery... the only skill you need is proper positioning on the map, everything else is completely random. If you ask me that's utter .

 

A shooter that doesn't let you use your aiming skills...

 

 

Yes, let's have pinpoint accurate KV-2s.

What are YOU thinking?

Are you even thinking?



TheGhostlySheep #14 Posted 08 July 2018 - 05:57 PM

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View PostAvengerOrion, on 08 July 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

 

Yes, let's have pinpoint accurate KV-2s.

What are YOU thinking?

Are you even thinking?

 

I don't think he means that every shot should hit if you're aiming at a target, but at least have it be more reliable on tanks that should in theory be accurate.
 

View PostSuurpolskija, on 08 July 2018 - 12:17 PM, said:

A positive example of RNG: 

 

I was getting schooled in my T30 by an obviously very skilled player in T-54. I was making a bold move by crossing an opening to protect our cap in the later stages of the game and got surprised my pants down by him. He had superior position on higher ground and some cover to protect most of his hull, while I was suddenly getting shot from multiple directions. 

 

So I took a snapshot while driving from ~100m to his very teeny tiny part of the hull that he was about to expose and what do you know, he exploded for the whole of his 1650hp and I got to safety alive and well. 

 

I also vividly remember a blind shot on a full or almost full HP obj140 in my M41 90mm which exploded his ammorack probably 30 seconds from the start of the game. 

 

Rng is a *edited*!

 

There are only 4 times I have ever been blessed by RNJesus. Once I was aiming for a T30 at long range, the shell went edge of the circle (not very good RNG here) and hit some medium tank (don't remember which one), I ammo racked him and he exploded.

2 other times were miracle bounced from a Grille 15 shooting APCR and a shell from a jagpanzer e100.

The last one was an ammo rack on an obj 257.

I'm fine with a % chance of getting ammo racked, set on fire, etc etc. I'm also ok with RNG deciding pen values and dmg values.

But the aiming system in this game is so [edited], it's insanely frustrating when you lose a game just because your shots don't hit the target right in front of you.

 

View PostSuurpolskija, on 08 July 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

Inb4 Jigabachi wants a replay! 

 

I didn't record anything sorry
 

Tankyouverymuch2 #15 Posted 08 July 2018 - 06:22 PM

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View PostAvengerOrion, on 08 July 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

Yes, let's have pinpoint accurate KV-2s.

What are YOU thinking?

Are you even thinking?

 

This is your answer:

View PostTheGhostlySheep, on 08 July 2018 - 05:57 PM, said:

I don't think he means that every shot should hit if you're aiming at a target, but at least have it be more reliable on tanks that should in theory be accurate.

 

In reality, shells would be affected by wind direction, and the range drop-off. In WoT, they're affected by the Russian Number Generator so whether you hit a tank or not is completely randomized.

 

So take a look at War Thunder's aiming system: no aim circle, no aim time. You get a fixed cross/dot which has a predetermined "cone" of dispersion, meaning wherever you point it, the shell will be fired in that direction. The dispersion is also far lower, since every gun's dispersion in WoT has been tripled due to small maps and short render ranges.

 

Furthermore, in WoT, you point at a target, holding the gun still, AnD iTs MaGiCaLlY gEtTiNg MoRe AnD mOrE aCcUrRaTtE wItH eAcH sEcOnD~-....

 

Once again:

 

 

I'd understand if they actually implemented wind affecting slower-flying/artillery shells, and requiring the player to take target range into account because of drop-off, but this is an arcade shooter, and I just realised I'm contradicting myself here, and should probably move on to WT...

 

WoT is catered to casual players, so anything requiring skill (apart from positioning as I mentioned) has been so dulled-down, your ability is meaningless and you can only pray to SerB to guide your shots to victory.


Edited by Tankyouverymuch2, 08 July 2018 - 06:25 PM.


Jigabachi #16 Posted 08 July 2018 - 06:45 PM

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View PostSuurpolskija, on 08 July 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

Inb4 Jigabachi wants a replay! 

Would be a nice bonus, but apart from some possible exaggerating here and there, I don't see anything out of the ordinary. All those things do happen in the game and his overall point is about RNG in general and not based on some fantasy claims.



Enforcer1975 #17 Posted 08 July 2018 - 07:57 PM

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View PostTheGhostlySheep, on 08 July 2018 - 05:57 PM, said:

 

I don't think he means that every shot should hit if you're aiming at a target, but at least have it be more reliable on tanks that should in theory be accurate.

 

Fully aimed shots should never go to the edge of the circle. 

Baldrickk #18 Posted 08 July 2018 - 09:09 PM

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View PostTankyouverymuch2, on 08 July 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

Furthermore, in WoT, you point at a target, holding the gun still, AnD iTs MaGiCaLlY gEtTiNg MoRe AnD mOrE aCcUrRaTtE wItH eAcH sEcOnD~-....

 

How about thinking of it this way?

Tank is moving - gun is pointing in general direction of enemy.

Gunner is keeping it roughly on track, but it could go anywhere.

Tank stops, Commander takes range to enemy, passes it to gunner

Gunner uses range and sights to zero in the gun.

As he does so, the gun becomes more and more closely tracked towards the target

 

The larger aim circle isn't because of the nature of the gun itself, but more that the gunner hasn't yet been able to focus on that one enemy, and it's a representation of the area where the gun could actually be pointing.



Tankyouverymuch2 #19 Posted 09 July 2018 - 07:51 AM

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View PostBaldrickk, on 08 July 2018 - 09:09 PM, said:

How about thinking of it this way?

Tank is moving - gun is pointing in general direction of enemy.

Gunner is keeping it roughly on track, but it could go anywhere.

Tank stops, Commander takes range to enemy, passes it to gunner

Gunner uses range and sights to zero in the gun.

As he does so, the gun becomes more and more closely tracked towards the target

 

The larger aim circle isn't because of the nature of the gun itself, but more that the gunner hasn't yet been able to focus on that one enemy, and it's a representation of the area where the gun could actually be pointing.

 

The gunner is your mouse pointer... i.e. you. You who've already zoomed in to see a target and aimed at them, ready to fire, except you're not because even though you (the gunner) have already aimed at your target, you are delayed by a stupid mechanic that makes no sense. What other game has such ridiculous aimtime?

 

Armored Warfare uses aimtime too AFAIK but the aiming circle shrinks very quickly. In WoT, that takes ages, as if I'm a player with disabilities trying to point at a target the best I can until I finally line up the shot...even though it was lined up a whole 2-or-more seconds ago.



250swb #20 Posted 09 July 2018 - 08:23 AM

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View PostTankyouverymuch2, on 09 July 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

 

except you're not because even though you (the gunner) have already aimed at your target, you are delayed by a stupid mechanic that makes no sense. 

 

Now there is your problem, you are the de facto overlord of the crew, you are not the Gunner, you are not the Commander, or the Driver, or Loader. They each have their skills to impart, that is why you train them, and the tanks technical specification also plays it's part, that is why you use modules to improve it such as GLD. I'm afraid in relation to the crew and tank you are thinking too much about 'I' rather than 'it', but not being able to look beyond the self is a common trait nowadays, maybe you watch too much reality TV?






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