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Japanese Heavies Balancing Ideas

Balance

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Poll: Balance Changes (85 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Do you want the HE gun removed?

  1. Yes (39 votes [45.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.88%

  2. No (46 votes [54.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 54.12%

Do you want the addition of easy to pen weaksapots ?

  1. Yes (46 votes [54.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 54.12%

  2. No (39 votes [45.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.88%

Vote Hide poll

LordMuffin #41 Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:25 PM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 12 July 2018 - 08:20 PM, said:

 

So 50% WR earned fair and square is worse off than an eBay account? Whatever.

Why do you think this is an e-bay account?

Do you have anything to back it up?

 

Or is it just some way for you to try and insult me?

 

View PostWindSplitter1, on 12 July 2018 - 08:54 PM, said:

 

According to you, perhaps.

I am right according to pretty much every good player of this game.



TiMeK1ll3r #42 Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:18 PM

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Guys I think some of you missed  pretty important memo...

 

Aren't SUPERHEAVY tanks supposed to be heavier and better armored than normal Heavy Tanks?

What is the point in a SUPERHEAVY if it doesn't have an exceptional armor?

What is the point in a SUPERHEAVY if you just load gold and pen it on every part of its armor?

I can accept that you need gold to pen them, especially the top ones, but remember this...the MAUS and the E100 are SUPERHEAVYs too but their armor is just as good as other normal HT...so then what is the point in them?

 

To make it very very simple now, if you ever played Jap Heavys you surely know the struggle, but if you didn't then you just can't understand AT ALL...almost every shot you receive is a premium round, which makes the armor irrelevant, since it's totally flat, while good pen guns do not even need the premium round to penetrate them.

And since the armor is flat you can't even sidescrape well, plus you are slow and sluggish so it's easy to get around you, which means that even a single medium tank can easily circle you to death while you migh at best take away half of its HP before you die (unless you are using the AP gun which will probably not even penetrate, and you will do 0 dmg before your death).

 

What some of the Japs need are Heat Shields like the on the S. Conqueror or the S. Pershing, just to be able to counter the abnormal SPAM of premium shells that get shot at you every single time.

I totally agree that if you introduce better armoring for this kind of tanks, you also need to create REAL WEAKSPOTS on the front of the tank, like the commander hatch or the viewports, which should be penned by standard Tier X guns too reliably (to be able to counter.



sgtYester #43 Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:26 PM

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View Postleggasiini, on 10 July 2018 - 01:31 PM, said:

http://forum.worldof...ssible-and-how/

 

Proposal above is outdated but the concept is still accurate, and should give you a good idea how to fix the line.

 

TL;DR: rework armor layout completely (give them weakspots pennable by AP, and in return buff the rest of the frontal armor to the point its hard to pen with premium, encouraging people to aim at the weakspots), remove/nerf the derps on higher tiers, and buff the AP guns.

 

as long as wg does not fix the russian op bias tanks...like 430U and others.. nope

NoobySkooby #44 Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:31 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 12 July 2018 - 09:25 PM, said:

Why do you think this is an e-bay account?

Do you have anything to back it up?

 

Or is it just some way for you to try and insult me?

 

It is just a way for people to have cheap digs at you standard troll routine, although the*edited*, and anyone who disagrees is a WG shill and nothing more, boy am i so *edited*right now:angry:

Edited by G_Bg_82, 13 July 2018 - 10:34 AM.
edit due to swearing


Gremlin182 #45 Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:57 PM

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The entire feature of the Japanese heavies is that they are huge slab sided monsters with derp guns.

Its like saying lets remove the autoreloader from the italian tanks that is their feature its what makes them different.

 

The gun has 75mm of pen and its got about 280mm frontal armour.

You do have to aim but you are not aiming at weak spots so much as areas where the HE splash will perhaps pen weak areas so low on the tank turret front so you splash the top deck of the tank that might be 50mm.

 

You have the option of using premium which gives you an extra 300 damage at the cost of 6400 credits and while it may say the gun does 1100 or 1400 thats not really true you do more like 400-600 and sometimes less.

This isnt one of those hESH monsters that really does do over 1000 damage reliably.

Plenty of tier 10 tanks can beat 280 armour even if they too have to use premium

 

Though yes the smaller gun should have better stats so there is more than one way to play the tank.

Not everyone wants to derp here you have little choice.

 

 



LordMuffin #46 Posted 13 July 2018 - 05:16 AM

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View PostGremlin182, on 12 July 2018 - 11:57 PM, said:

The entire feature of the Japanese heavies is that they are huge slab sided monsters with derp guns.

Its like saying lets remove the autoreloader from the italian tanks that is their feature its what makes them different.

 

The gun has 75mm of pen and its got about 280mm frontal armour.

You do have to aim but you are not aiming at weak spots so much as areas where the HE splash will perhaps pen weak areas so low on the tank turret front so you splash the top deck of the tank that might be 50mm.

 

You have the option of using premium which gives you an extra 300 damage at the cost of 6400 credits and while it may say the gun does 1100 or 1400 thats not really true you do more like 400-600 and sometimes less.

This isnt one of those hESH monsters that really does do over 1000 damage reliably.

Plenty of tier 10 tanks can beat 280 armour even if they too have to use premium

 

Though yes the smaller gun should have better stats so there is more than one way to play the tank.

Not everyone wants to derp here you have little choice.

 

 

The regular shell proof weak to prem shell armour and a p2w derp gun is indeed what makes Jap heavies different.

But is there presence on the battlefield and their effect on gameplay good or desired at all?

And no, I don't think so. You need prem ammo to damage them and prem ammo to do damage in them (premium ammo close to double the damage done) They laugh at armour, hulldown and sidescraping tanks.

 

They are just a true noob tube. Easy to play, easy to do damage in. Very good in current meta.

 

View PostTiMeK1ll3r, on 12 July 2018 - 10:18 PM, said:

Guys I think some of you missed  pretty important memo...

 

Aren't SUPERHEAVY tanks supposed to be heavier and better armored than normal Heavy Tanks?

What is the point in a SUPERHEAVY if it doesn't have an exceptional armor?

What is the point in a SUPERHEAVY if you just load gold and pen it on every part of its armor?

I can accept that you need gold to pen them, especially the top ones, but remember this...the MAUS and the E100 are SUPERHEAVYs too but their armor is just as good as other normal HT...so then what is the point in them?

 

To make it very very simple now, if you ever played Jap Heavys you surely know the struggle, but if you didn't then you just can't understand AT ALL...almost every shot you receive is a premium round, which makes the armor irrelevant, since it's totally flat, while good pen guns do not even need the premium round to penetrate them.

And since the armor is flat you can't even sidescrape well, plus you are slow and sluggish so it's easy to get around you, which means that even a single medium tank can easily circle you to death while you migh at best take away half of its HP before you die (unless you are using the AP gun which will probably not even penetrate, and you will do 0 dmg before your death).

 

What some of the Japs need are Heat Shields like the on the S. Conqueror or the S. Pershing, just to be able to counter the abnormal SPAM of premium shells that get shot at you every single time.

I totally agree that if you introduce better armoring for this kind of tanks, you also need to create REAL WEAKSPOTS on the front of the tank, like the commander hatch or the viewports, which should be penned by standard Tier X guns too reliably (to be able to counter.

The Jap heavies need changing.

Make the bulk of frontal armour premium ammo resistant.

Then you add weakspots like cupola, cheeks, lfp that are/can be penned by regular shells if exposed in correct angles.

 

Making them resistant to prem ammo is an extremely bad solution. They would just become very op that way. You need to add weakspots aswell.

 

And yes, I always shoot premium ammo on Japanese heavies because I think they are terribly designed.

 

One of the reasons AW failed was that they had frontally impervious tanks, so most played these tanks and shot HE at each other.



TiMeK1ll3r #47 Posted 13 July 2018 - 10:34 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 13 July 2018 - 04:16 AM, said:

The regular shell proof weak to prem shell armour and a p2w derp gun is indeed what makes Jap heavies different.

But is there presence on the battlefield and their effect on gameplay good or desired at all?

And no, I don't think so. You need prem ammo to damage them and prem ammo to do damage in them (premium ammo close to double the damage done) They laugh at armour, hulldown and sidescraping tanks.

 

They are just a true noob tube. Easy to play, easy to do damage in. Very good in current meta.

 

As i said in my post above, you can't know the struggle if you don't even play with them.

It's easy to say Japs are easy tanks to play, you just derp around like an idiot, shoot and make dmg.....but actually no, you just don't, because on 80% of the matches you are in a map where you can only go to one side or you just die in a minute, and when there is arty you just can't stay in the open for too long or you get clicked to death, but then again you are slow and big so arty always hits you even if you expose for 0.0000001 seconds.

And you can't expose even if there is no arty because you receive a premium shells rain from all around the map, and you can't hide or cover anywhere because you are so big and sluggish, and obliviously since you only get shot with gold shells you are made of butter.

 

And what i say about making the resistant to prem shells is right i think, because anyway that's the only kind of shells that comes to you in any case, so what is the point in having 0 armor on a slow and sluggish tank with a really inaccurate gun?

Yeah you don't need to aim for too long but still you have to hit the enemy, and with the derp it's not easy, while with the AP gun it's most likely a not penetration.

 

I say to make them resistant to prem shells with heat shields only on the front, and only in some places, while decreasing the armor in other places to make them weakspots.

All of this while still keeping in mind the corrisponding tiers.

 

BTW all of what I've said should be applied only to the Type 4 and 5 Heavy, while just making some tweaks and adjustments to the lower tiers



vasilinhorulezz #48 Posted 13 July 2018 - 11:02 AM

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Give it a premium AP round with low pen, something like 246-248mm,

so now it has a more balanced premium round, with a lot of over-matching capabilities,

good against lights and it can shoot turret roofs or engine decks of other heavies,

or remove the Derp and buff the AP gun.

Finally, When a weakspot is more than the average pen of enemy heavies, wait for it

It's NOT A WEAKSPOT.

Commander's hatch with 260mm effective and frontal hull weakspots that are 250mm (left) and 260mm (right) flat

are not f@ckin' weakspots.

But hey, only 5% premium rounds fired, right?



bnmm113 #49 Posted 02 September 2018 - 11:13 AM

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they are well balanced.

ever seen some small autoloader drive next to it and hide under its awfol gun depression, it is farming day for them.

i managed to pen o-ni thru the side with stock gun of amx12t without premium, so what are you crying about?

get a light next to ut and let it farm



Robbie_T #50 Posted 02 September 2018 - 11:36 AM

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View PostAndrasan89, on 10 July 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

all what they need are WEAKPOINTS (proper ones not P2W ones !!!) AND balanced ammo, not P2W !!

 

so easy...:facepalm:

 

the whole side and back are a weak point..........the reload time is a weak point the speed is a weak point.

so easy...:child:



DeadLecter #51 Posted 02 September 2018 - 04:03 PM

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I think they should nerf these HE shells on Type 5, arties, shitbarn, deathstar and any other HE firing tank. Because they are needed to counter tanks like S.Conq but they shouldnt also do 600 dmg in one shot with no aiming at all

Troubledove #52 Posted 02 September 2018 - 04:50 PM

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Derp gun with clip. That will balance 'em.

sgtYester #53 Posted 02 September 2018 - 06:23 PM

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yeah , balance the jap heavies but ignore the op russian tanks...

 

the only reason types should stay as they are is that they are the perffect counter to op russian tanks.... give russian tanks cupola's to hit (is7..)  and maybe then give the type a better weakspot







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