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Japanese Heavies Balancing Ideas

Balance

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Poll: Balance Changes (72 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Do you want the HE gun removed?

  1. Yes (32 votes [44.44%])

    Percentage of vote: 44.44%

  2. No (40 votes [55.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 55.56%

Do you want the addition of easy to pen weaksapots ?

  1. Yes (37 votes [51.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 51.39%

  2. No (35 votes [48.61%])

    Percentage of vote: 48.61%

Vote Hide poll

badabum #21 Posted 10 July 2018 - 04:21 PM

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I am honestly afraid of any re-balancing Wargaming would do at this point, on any issue... 

They wanted to buff slow super-heavies and went way too far, the Type HE guns are basically pre-nerf artillery guns and a really really bad idea when you claim you want to "make armor relevant again". 

They wanted to expand the LT tiers and it was an apocalypse with many iconic LTs ruined and mind-boggling view range nerfs across the board.

They wanted to re-balance the SPGs and under the guise of alpha nerf they buffed their aiming and splash radius, along with implementing the new abomination called Stun. 

Just... stop. Leave us alone, keep selling new premiums and bundles and whatever but don't touch anything. 


Edited by badabum, 10 July 2018 - 05:31 PM.


AXIS_OF_RESISTANCE #22 Posted 10 July 2018 - 04:33 PM

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just remove the entire tech tree , Jap tanks can not be balanced they are op in concept :trollface:

Edited by AXIS_OF_RESISTANCE, 10 July 2018 - 04:35 PM.


PlasticArmour #23 Posted 10 July 2018 - 05:02 PM

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It's a nice tank to play but to say it's OP is a mistake. Clans play about 4-5 in a game and they can get wrecked in short time. The trick is to swarm them but in random that's a toss of the coin if it happens, thankfully. You get 2-3 tanks trying to side scrape against it and the type5 has any form of support things tend to work out nicely for the heavyweight. Guess what I'm trying to say is it's the players in random, they give it a buff or nerf depending. Same with any tank.

CircleOfSorrow #24 Posted 10 July 2018 - 05:06 PM

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I think all vehicles should be exactly the same with only purchasable cosmetic differences.  How unique.

LordMuffin #25 Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:48 PM

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View PostwEight_Tanker, on 10 July 2018 - 01:32 PM, said:

No. It's your fault for letting it shoot you. If you didn't let it then run away from it, hide, take cover. Stop complaining about HE guns. Just remember that an E-100 has about the same gun but can burst through you with regular AP rounds and deal even more damage. Same goes for the Jagger E-100.

I don't think weakening the armor would do anything except discouraging premium ammo consuming just a bit. Armor is useless anyway nowadays if your current battlefield and match-up do not match with your chosen tank.

No. An E100 can not pen and hulldown IS-7.

 

Also, armour is more powerful then ever in this game now. If you know how to use it, that is.


Edited by LordMuffin, 10 July 2018 - 07:49 PM.


wEight_Tanker #26 Posted 10 July 2018 - 08:49 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 10 July 2018 - 07:48 PM, said:

No. An E100 can not pen and hulldown IS-7.

 

Also, armour is more powerful then ever in this game now. If you know how to use it, that is.

 

Think of an E-100 with loaded HE instead then firing. It's pretty much the same thing except that you will spot AP loaded E-100s more frequently than HE loaded. E-100 is just a pure example. There are more vehicles with naval guns that can use them as DERP guns.

 

You can't always use your armor, absorbing damage every instance then calling it powerful, while it actually isn't. Against Premium Ammunition that is. I guess we are talking about Tier VIII - X where regular ammunition consuming is rare. Still exists but It's rare. In the lower tier battles It's the other way around.


Edited by wEight_Tanker, 10 July 2018 - 08:49 PM.


Dr_Oolen #27 Posted 10 July 2018 - 08:55 PM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 10 July 2018 - 02:28 PM, said:

 

If you're sitting in front of a derp gun then you aren't playing correctly.

 

correct, these days one is doing it right only when sitting behind a derp gun, like in taip5 or cancer

WindSplitter1 #28 Posted 10 July 2018 - 09:57 PM

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View Postasul101, on 10 July 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

Ok so  i have a question: How many times were you sidescraping corectly/staying hull down and a Type 4/Type 5 just slammed you for 500-600 dmg without actually aiming for  a weakspot  and you were unable to pen it with regular rounds?

 

That's the whole point of HE shells, to negate armour and dig into your HP pool and force you back. Sidescraping isn't a plasma shield that should make you impervious to any inbound shots or a call to the enemy to say "Now stand still while I farm you".

 

As someone who's shot a Maus in the UFP for 300 dmg and seen a Maus being slammed by 1400 HP in the turret ring, I can tell you the "not aiming at weakspots" is utter nonsense.

 

That you were not able to pen it with normal ammo I can agree it is a problem, but if you already knew this in advance and you used std ammo instead of gold, then you deserve to lose the credits.

 

 Too many times, seriously these tanks aren`t fun on both ends.

According to whom? Research or it didn't happen. I had/have fun playing both vehicles even with the gold ammo and SPGs raining fire upon me. It's actually pretty nice to receive an arty shell and have the damage being entirely blocked by the turret face and/or gun for 0 damage while your own arty helps your team push. Specially on open maps.

 

Why you ask ? in the first place the guy who is fighting one can`t pen it with regular rounds so  i sugest the weakening of the "weakspots" so that players actually get rewarded for good marksmanship

 

Agreed. But giving it proper weakspots people can explore without gold won't necessarily make fix your proposed issues.

 

and on the Type5/4 drivers case it`s not fun since it`s very slow and it gets penetrated with premium rounds from equal tier vehicles everywhere, so the places that aren`t a weakspot should get buffed.

 

You're contradicting yourself here. It's very slow because it has heavy armour to carry and that's what makes it an SHT in the first place.

Additional buffing of the tank's "unweakspots" isn't necessary.

 

Now on the gun talk the he mechanic is just not fair since you get punished for playing your tank`s "strengths" i sugest removing the derp gun and making the AP gun a more viable option.

 

"Fair"?! You expect a war game to be fair? If you want fairness, play chess. You hurt your team when you play "fair". Also, HE is punishing but gold ammo isn't? No. HE negates armour. As it should.

 

Also, I use the 14cm gun and not the 15cm, with mountains of gold ammo, of course. That doesn't mean I can't "punish" you with this guns HE.

Removing the derp will get people from rebuking the p2w 1400 damage dealing derp, but won't end the HE spamming versus sidescrapers.

 

In effect, removing the derp will accomplish nothing. Apart from losing less HP, which I don't think it's what you want. Of course, I don't know what goes in your head so I might be wrong.

 



NoobySkooby #29 Posted 11 July 2018 - 02:38 AM

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Yeah lets just remove them along with arty because you don't like em, wel lI do and I want kept as they are:trollface:

LordMuffin #30 Posted 11 July 2018 - 04:49 AM

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View PostwEight_Tanker, on 10 July 2018 - 08:49 PM, said:

 

Think of an E-100 with loaded HE instead then firing. It's pretty much the same thing except that you will spot AP loaded E-100s more frequently than HE loaded. E-100 is just a pure example. There are more vehicles with naval guns that can use them as DERP guns.

 

You can't always use your armor, absorbing damage every instance then calling it powerful, while it actually isn't. Against Premium Ammunition that is. I guess we are talking about Tier VIII - X where regular ammunition consuming is rare. Still exists but It's rare. In the lower tier battles It's the other way around.

 

Armour can bounce premium shells at T8-T10.

Armour is the reason why T95, Obj 268 v4, VK100P, Defender, SC, Type 5 etc are the best tanks for winning games at those tiers instead of the mobile counterparts.

 

Heavy tanks > medium tanks at T8-T10.

 

An E100 do less then 1/2 of the damage a Type 5 do with his premium HE shells against a target due to HE mechanics. 

And that is the best heavy tank HE shells apart from the Type 5.

Only JgPzE100 and FV183/FV4005 have as good or better HE shells then the Type 5, and can thus crapon armour as effectively. 

 

View PostWindSplitter1, on 10 July 2018 - 09:57 PM, said:

 

Derp guns make armour useless, good mechanic, yes?

Very skill intensive.

 

Yes, I expect a game to be fair and balanced.

Just because it has tanks and some extremely lose connection with war is no justification for useless balance.

 

Removing the HE guns from all Japanese heavies is an extremely good idea, it will make these tanks take some amount of skill to use, then you add a frontal weakspots while increase armour on other areas so they can bounce premium shells if you hit wrong part, but are pennable by regular shells if you hit the correct part.

 

Large calibre HE guns are an issue if you want a game that values skill, want a game that works in a competetive environment and so on.

If you only want a game where tanks go vroom and boom, you can do more or less whatever you want though.


Edited by G_Bg_82, 12 July 2018 - 10:55 AM.


ZDN #31 Posted 11 July 2018 - 07:23 AM

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Derp gun when full aim it can miss by a lot.And 80 dmg from 1100-1400 shell it is true.

 

Plus the average dmg from type5 is 300-600 if your lucky.The tanks have pen points in front on the hull/turet. No problem to pen them.And if you say i am scared to go becouse HE,that tank has a big reload time,So you can hit him in front/side and go around him,he cant move that fast.



WindSplitter1 #32 Posted 11 July 2018 - 09:59 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 11 July 2018 - 03:50 AM, said:

Senseless stuff

 



Nishi_Kinuyo #33 Posted 11 July 2018 - 10:28 PM

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View PostAXIS_OF_RESISTANCE, on 10 July 2018 - 04:33 PM, said:

just remove the entire tech tree , Jap tanks can not be balanced they are op in concept :trollface:

So you're saying that the Type 5 Medium Tank Chi-Ri is OP? :trollface:



Suurpolskija #34 Posted 11 July 2018 - 10:50 PM

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I hear there's no need to balance Jap Heavies because the swarm of Leffys is gonna swallow the sun and the whole world (of tanks) with it. 

AXIS_OF_RESISTANCE #35 Posted 11 July 2018 - 11:20 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 11 July 2018 - 10:28 PM, said:

So you're saying that the Type 5 Medium Tank Chi-Ri is OP? :trollface:

 

Sorry if i triggered  a weeb thing ... :trollface:

Mike_Mckay #36 Posted 12 July 2018 - 03:51 AM

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I find theyre normally quite easy to balance except when you drive over a French light tank, then they can wobble a bit while youre perched on top of it

LordMuffin #37 Posted 12 July 2018 - 04:49 AM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 11 July 2018 - 09:59 PM, said:

 

50% WR, thus you lack knowledge about how tanks work and how tanks effect gameplay.



WindSplitter1 #38 Posted 12 July 2018 - 08:20 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 12 July 2018 - 03:49 AM, said:

50% WR, thus you lack knowledge about how tanks work and how tanks effect gameplay.

 

So 50% WR earned fair and square is worse off than an eBay account? Whatever.

nikolaink123 #39 Posted 12 July 2018 - 08:43 PM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 12 July 2018 - 07:20 PM, said:

 

So 50% WR earned fair and square is worse off than an eBay account? Whatever.

eBay account or not. He is correct either way.



WindSplitter1 #40 Posted 12 July 2018 - 08:54 PM

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View Postnikolaink123, on 12 July 2018 - 07:43 PM, said:

eBay account or not. He is correct either way.

 

According to you, perhaps.





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