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Why WG refuses skill based MM?


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Argedeava #1 Posted 11 July 2018 - 12:38 PM

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I know the don`t want it, i just don`t know why and what the say about why not.

I`d like to see some league MM based on performance like in StarCraft2 and i see nothing wrong with it.

Currently there are too many games quickly resulting in 2:15 scores which are a waste of my time. I don`t want to witness exalted *edit into an *edit parade without anything to do about it.

 

Asumptions:

1. Could it be for marketing reasons like anyone can be anything in this wonderworld?

2. Could it be that it will require modifications to MM having as side effect a lot of bots exposure?


Edited by xxTANK_Uxx, 11 July 2018 - 04:23 PM.
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unhappy_bunny #2 Posted 11 July 2018 - 12:43 PM

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Try using the search function. Many, many players have explained why they feel SBMM would be bad for the game. 

Comrade_Renamon #3 Posted 11 July 2018 - 12:45 PM

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Or because the majority of their customers don't want it? The Majority who get home from work and just want to pew pew tanks? (The demographic they are gearing the game towards)

 

Not sure what happened with Ranked which was supposed to be the "skill based MM" people have been asking for, albeit only for T10?



Bmilan_NIL #4 Posted 11 July 2018 - 12:46 PM

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The unicums would need to wait hours to search a match.

Argedeava #5 Posted 11 July 2018 - 12:52 PM

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View Postunhappy_bunny, on 11 July 2018 - 12:43 PM, said:

Try using the search function. Many, many players have explained why they feel SBMM would be bad for the game. 

 

That was not the question.

I`m not interested in players oppinion about SBMM, expecially troll bla bla. Smarty "use search" typo is another waste of time as would meang digging through a lot of bla bla.

 

View PostComrade_Renamon, on 11 July 2018 - 12:45 PM, said:

Or because the majority of their customers don't want it? The Majority who get home from work and just want to pew pew tanks? (The demographic they are gearing the game towards)

 

Not sure what happened with Ranked which was supposed to be the "skill based MM" people have been asking for, albeit only for T10?

 

Despite its flaws ranked was a plus for MM. maybe loosing some of the competitive frame and keeping SBMM wold lead to even better games.

Edited by Argedeava, 11 July 2018 - 12:57 PM.


Mko #6 Posted 11 July 2018 - 12:55 PM

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Skill based MM was tried in Armored Warfare at some point. For some time I think it was also secret. There was a huge outcry against it in the forums and so on, and it was adjusted and later removed.

The idea is wrong in principle.

SIMM in AW was trying to "balance" teams by winrate of players. So if you were a good player, it put other good players on the enemy team, or it really weighed you down with the really bad players on your team. Or both. I can't quite remember how exactly it worked, it's been a while. It did not bring much results, I can't remember exactly, but I think that even the devs (Obsidian back then) admitted that it basically did not solve what it was supposed to solve (prevent landslide matches I think). Though I may be completely wrong about this. Anyway, from a players perspective it didn't seem to do much. Occasionally it happened that the match was an interesting and really close fight to the very end, basically the bad players on both teams died and the good players then fought it out among themselves.

 

As for league MM, the problem is that you separate the population into different queues, which can lead to bad queue times. Then you also create a group of players who are on the edge between the leagues and it may be uncomfortable for them to keep being switched from one to another. It could also have the effect of massively increasing the skillgap between the leagues, as the good players in the "high" league would develop their skills more and possibly adapt a different meta (especially with WOT having stuff like gold ammo, unbalanced vehicles for monetization reasons, and so on). So players who would advance from the basic league could be completely lost in the high league.



Kozzy #7 Posted 11 July 2018 - 12:55 PM

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View PostArgedeava, on 11 July 2018 - 11:52 AM, said:

 

That was not the question.

I`m not interested in players oppinion about SBMM, expecially troll bla bla.

 

No one cares about you being unable to read the countless threads on this.  No one cares that you cannot be bothered to use the pinned MM thread (which has discussed this topic ad infinitum).  

 

RIP this thread.



Swim_Swim #8 Posted 11 July 2018 - 12:57 PM

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I dont want it, the majority also dont want that flawed system, go play some snowflak SJW game from West, they provide for ur request

Murro_the_One #9 Posted 11 July 2018 - 12:58 PM

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View PostBmilan_NIL, on 11 July 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

The unicums would need to wait hours to search a match.

*edit

View PostComrade_Renamon, on 11 July 2018 - 12:45 PM, said:

Or because the majority of their customers don't want it? The Majority who get home from work and just want to pew pew tanks? (The demographic they are gearing the game towards)

 

Not sure what happened with Ranked which was supposed to be the "skill based MM" people have been asking for, albeit only for T10?

ranked was tryhard attempt to get all the tryhards who want to get some recognition at the expense of money...we all know how it ended in battles

and its funny that you all of the sudden know majority of the customers. all i know is bunch of people who base their existence by their number in game who will make all they can to prevent it from returning them to the grayness of their lives

 

 

skill involved in MM doesnt need to be like your small brains imagine, it can be just small team balancing that not all noobs will play against all pros like it happens from time to time

 


Edited by xxTANK_Uxx, 11 July 2018 - 04:27 PM.
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Argedeava #10 Posted 11 July 2018 - 12:58 PM

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View PostKozzy, on 11 July 2018 - 12:55 PM, said:

 

No one cares about you being unable to read the countless threads on this.  No one cares that you cannot be bothered to use the pinned MM thread (which has discussed this topic ad infinitum).  

 

RIP this thread.

 

You care! You posted here!

 

P.S You cant lie an expect to be taken seriouslu at the same time.


Edited by Argedeava, 11 July 2018 - 12:59 PM.


Long_Range_Sniper #11 Posted 11 July 2018 - 12:58 PM

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View PostArgedeava, on 11 July 2018 - 11:52 AM, said:

 

That was not the question.

I`m not interested in players oppinion about SBMM, expecially troll bla bla. Smarty "use search" typo is another waste of time as would meang digging through a lot of bla bla.

 

SBMM has no direct correlation with rolfstomps. If it did they they wouldn't happen in clanwars or ranked battles and they do.

 

Rolfstomps start with the MM tier/tank template, and then when you overlay 3/5/7 onto a playerbase that is mostly poor players you'll get rolfstomps.

 

Which simply leaves the question as to what you can do to reduce the rolfstomps you suffer if you're on the losing side. It's quite complex, so I've put in in the spoiler to save space.

 

Spoiler

 



shikaka9 #12 Posted 11 July 2018 - 01:00 PM

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Because nobody knows (or didnt found a way yet) how to calculate the "number(s)"  what you can call 'skill' ... all those PR, WR, WN8 etc.. calculates ~10%(!) (my personal opinion) of all players statisctics that you can count 

Argedeava #13 Posted 11 July 2018 - 01:02 PM

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View Postshikaka9, on 11 July 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

Because nobody knows (or didnt found a way yet) how to calculate the "number(s)"  what you can call 'skill' ... all those PR, WR, WN8 etc.. calculates ~10%(!) (my personal opinion) of all players statisctics that you can count 

 

They already did it in Ranked.

ortega456 #14 Posted 11 July 2018 - 01:02 PM

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Please read this post first: http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/678354-replay-analysis-what-does-this-tell-us-about-the-mm/

 

They did a statistical analysis of team balance. Also one of their conclusions is that skill based mm wouldn't help much in the long run.



Murro_the_One #15 Posted 11 July 2018 - 01:03 PM

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View Postshikaka9, on 11 July 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

Because nobody knows (or didnt found a way yet) how to calculate the "number(s)"  what you can call 'skill' ... all those PR, WR, WN8 etc.. calculates ~10%(!) (my personal opinion) of all players statisctics that you can count 

solo winrate is the only real metric which can also be used in SMM



Comrade_Renamon #16 Posted 11 July 2018 - 01:05 PM

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View PostMurro_the_One, on 11 July 2018 - 11:58 AM, said:

ranked was tryhard attempt to get all the tryhards who want to get some recognition at the expense of money...we all know how it ended in battles

and its funny that you all of the sudden know majority of the customers. all i know is bunch of people who base their existence by their number in game who will make all they can to prevent it from returning them to the grayness of their lives

 

It was WG that said such when people complained about tanks coming in only Bundles, that they do it because the biggest portion of their players are people who work and get home to shoot some tanks (not the exact words mind you, I'd need to find the post for it).



Mko #17 Posted 11 July 2018 - 01:06 PM

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View PostMurro_the_One, on 11 July 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

solo winrate is the only real metric which can also be used in SMM

 

Wrong.

You cannot use winrate because SMM affects winrate.


Edited by Mko, 11 July 2018 - 01:06 PM.


Geno1isme #18 Posted 11 July 2018 - 01:06 PM

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It's called "Ranked battles" and will likely come back later this year.

shikaka9 #19 Posted 11 July 2018 - 01:10 PM

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View PostMurro_the_One, on 11 July 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

solo winrate is the only real metric which can also be used in SMM

 

"solo winrate" doesnt exist, it's more like "ally winrate" .. 

Murro_the_One #20 Posted 11 July 2018 - 01:12 PM

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View PostMko, on 11 July 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

Wrong.

You cannot use winrate because SMM affects winrate.

of course it works fine.

however you would not get 59.32% but lets say ~52% as the overall spread would shrink

 

and thats what all paders fear most, they would lose their numbers they think that they define them






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