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Can WG Live Stream Grinding Churchills?


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Search_Warrant #1 Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:27 PM

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Id love to sit down with some toffee popcorn and watch someone at WG legit grind them out 100% no free exp used from the first Churchill to the Black Prince and say with a smile on there faces that its FUN to play. they buffed the tier 8-10 to near "OP" levels but Black Prince is literally a 20kmh flat boxed no armored popgun that same tier mediums get better.

 

So i want to see a WG Staff member with a legit smile grind threw them and say live on Twitchtv, that they are just as competative as the other nations tanks.

 

Because as far as i see it. i will NEVER in a million years touch a churchill for as long as this game lives, especially when you can get detracked and damaged in a single shell from the front. what the hell was WG thinking with these utter **** boxes?

 

Edit: also grind stock Cearn, a 17 pounder tier 8 heavy sounds like a real blast to play.


Edited by Search_Warrant, 12 July 2018 - 11:29 PM.


Mko #2 Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:41 PM

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Isn't it genius?

Overbuff the Conquerors a little, but keep Churchills as they are. How many players spend money to skip Churchills?

I mean, the tier 5 Churchill is doable, but the tier 6, oh no.



PervyPastryPuffer #3 Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:41 PM

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Churchill 1 is fine overall, maybe a little RoF buff, nothing more.

 

Churchill VII has pretty decent armor unless facing higher tiers, so maybe they could increase the frontal armor by around 10-20mm and see where that leads. It's kinda slow but that's the Churchill line in a nutshell - slow as a church.

 

Black Prince needs a new gun. Give it the 20-pdr from the Centurion Mk.I, and remove premium rounds from it, because 226 base pen is already overkill for a tier 7 tank, even facing tier 9 tanks. Also buff the armor behind the tracks from the front, and increase the top speed to 28 km/h.



Mav75 #4 Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:42 PM

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Rage sold the Churchill, Churchill VII and Black Prince at least once each.

XxKuzkina_MatxX #5 Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:53 PM

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View PostTankyouverymuch2, on 13 July 2018 - 12:41 AM, said:

Black Prince needs a new gun. Give it the 20-pdr from the Centurion Mk.I, and remove premium rounds from it, because 226 base pen is already overkill for a tier 7 tank, even facing tier 9 tanks. Also buff the armor behind the tracks from the front, and increase the top speed to 28 km/h.

 

No thanks, i'd have the pen and crappy alpha instead of a better "theoretical" damage. :)

Search_Warrant #6 Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:54 PM

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View PostMav75, on 12 July 2018 - 10:42 PM, said:

Rage sold the Churchill, Churchill VII and Black Prince at least once each.

 

already rage sold the AT-7. i was so used to playing KV-85 before the nerfs (long time ago i thought i was a good player with near red wn8) and then i got my hands on the "amazing new british tanks that go pewpew super fast and had armor coz its slow" well.. fool me once WG. one look at that flat armor and slow loading pop gun and i never saw another churchill again even after all these years.

 

WG powercrept the game badly since even then and the new MM will make you suffer twice as hard. i dont envy anyone grinding these things. i take my hat off to you.


Edited by Search_Warrant, 12 July 2018 - 11:55 PM.


Search_Warrant #7 Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:57 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 12 July 2018 - 10:53 PM, said:

 

No thanks, i'd have the pen and crappy alpha instead of a better "theoretical" damage. :)

 

eh? the base alpha alone helps you allot, the pen makes it so the "DPM" is more realistic thanks to penetrating more shots reliably. he is right about a 20 pounder, or heck.. a 32 pounder (280 alpha). this sluggish paper box meets tier 9 tanks and it has to have something to defend itself with.

 

Its not unreasonable seeing as tho IS gets 390 alpha....


Edited by Search_Warrant, 12 July 2018 - 11:58 PM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #8 Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:08 AM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 13 July 2018 - 12:57 AM, said:

 

eh? the base alpha alone helps you allot, the pen makes it so the "DPM" is more realistic thanks to penetrating more shots reliably. he is right about a 20 pounder, or heck.. a 32 pounder (280 alpha). this sluggish paper box meets tier 9 tanks and it has to have something to defend itself with.

 

Its not unreasonable seeing as tho IS gets 390 alpha....

 

230, 280 or even 390 are "theoretical" unless you can pen and with 226 mm in tier 8 and 9 battles, you'll struggle with some targets. To name a few: Vk 100, Chrysler, Type 4, etc.,

 

Also IMO the IS and the IS2 suffers a lot to have that big alpha in tier 7. That's WG philosophy in balancing tanks, if you going to have a big advantage in one department you'll probably struggle in others.


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 13 July 2018 - 12:09 AM.


Search_Warrant #9 Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:24 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 12 July 2018 - 11:08 PM, said:

 

230, 280 or even 390 are "theoretical" unless you can pen and with 226 mm in tier 8 and 9 battles, you'll struggle with some targets. To name a few: Vk 100, Chrysler, Type 4, etc.,

 

Also IMO the IS and the IS2 suffers a lot to have that big alpha in tier 7. That's WG philosophy in balancing tanks, if you going to have a big advantage in one department you'll probably struggle in others.

 

Struggle? how? 390 alpha is nothing to scoff at even from a tier 9. it hurts. 217apcr is enough to go threw most front armor of heavies. and 175pen goes threw all side armor you meet. IS has 90mm side armor which is allot for a tier 7 if you bait shots correctly. its mobile so it can reposition, its clearly better than a BP in every aspect.

 

You make it sound like you want to keep the 171pen 150 alpha  17 pounder..... i dont get you at all. it hasent even got DPM.


Edited by Search_Warrant, 13 July 2018 - 12:25 AM.


PervyPastryPuffer #10 Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:26 AM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 12 July 2018 - 11:57 PM, said:

 

eh? the base alpha alone helps you allot, the pen makes it so the "DPM" is more realistic thanks to penetrating more shots reliably. he is right about a 20 pounder, or heck.. a 32 pounder (280 alpha). this sluggish paper box meets tier 9 tanks and it has to have something to defend itself with.

 

Its not unreasonable seeing as tho IS gets 390 alpha....

 

Tier 6 - 150 alpha, Tier 7 - 230 alpha, Tier 8 - 280 alpha, Tier 9 - 400 alpha, etc.

 

Making it slowly increase. :great: But I can already see people complaining how the tier 7 has 226 pen and the tier 8 has 220... :sceptic: ...for reasons only known to them. That's why I suggested removing prem ammo from the 20-pdr if it were to be put on the BP.

 

It fits the general idea of the line: relatively decent armor, poor mobility, strong turret and a fast-firing, high penetration gun.

 

Ed: I just remembered, the Churchill VII has 148 pen :mellow: It should use the 17-pdr based on what I proposed, with 171 pen, like the TOG.


Edited by Tankyouverymuch2, 13 July 2018 - 12:30 AM.


Search_Warrant #11 Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:29 AM

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View PostTankyouverymuch2, on 12 July 2018 - 11:26 PM, said:

 

Tier 6 - 150 alpha, Tier 7 - 230 alpha, Tier 8 - 280 alpha, Tier 9 - 400 alpha, etc.

 

Making it slowly increase. :great: But I can already see people complaining how the tier 7 has 226 pen and the tier 8 has 220... :sceptic: ...for reasons only known to them. That's why I suggested removing prem ammo from the 20-pdr if it were to be put on the BP.

 

It fits the general idea of the line: relatively decent armor, poor mobility, strong turret and a fast-firing, high penetration gun.

 

Why remove the gold shell? its really not that much of a difference thanks to it being APCR. usualy if standard cant pen, the gold wont do anything ether. 17 pounder doesent have the gold shell "overkill pen" for teir 6 removed, that things gold is like 239 at tier 6.

Edited by Search_Warrant, 13 July 2018 - 12:30 AM.


StuffKnight #12 Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:43 AM

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View PostTankyouverymuch2, on 12 July 2018 - 10:41 PM, said:

Churchill 1 is fine overall, maybe a little RoF buff, nothing more.

 

Churchill VII has pretty decent armor unless facing higher tiers, so maybe they could increase the frontal armor by around 10-20mm and see where that leads. It's kinda slow but that's the Churchill line in a nutshell - slow as a church.

 

Black Prince needs a new gun. Give it the 20-pdr from the Centurion Mk.I, and remove premium rounds from it, because 226 base pen is already overkill for a tier 7 tank, even facing tier 9 tanks. Also buff the armor behind the tracks from the front, and increase the top speed to 28 km/h.

 

 

Except 226 still isn't enough for the inevitable head-on encounters with certain tanks in all these corridors, because as you can see here (yes I'm using the most obvious example), even the current 17-pdr's APCR with 239 pen isn't enough. And you ain't exactly gonna be flanking anyone or launching a high-speed early surprise in a Black Prince, meaning this sort of crap face-off will be the most common when encountering a highest-tier enemy. So yeah, "remove the premium rounds" is an ill-thought proposal, especially since the APCR on the 20-pdr only increases the pen cabability over the AP by 32mm to 258. Sure it'll likely just butter through most of it's same tier competition and even punch a few nice 84mm holes into many of the Tier VIII's, but this is only for 230 alpha per shot, which is still lower than any other Tier VII HT. And again, the tank itself moves like a brick in treacle.

 

Other than that bizarre thought of taking away the APCR, giving the Black Prince a more capable gun in the form of the 20-pdr would be a good idea; 150 alpha is objectively pathetic for a Tier VII HT, regardless of how fast the gun's firing (laughably, it's slower than the Firefly VC, Firefly, and A45!). I wish someone at WG would actually do a bit more research on the Black Prince, and realise that there were plans to lob a Centurion Mk. I turret on one. Then they could use that as a base to actually mount the 20-pdr as an option (as well as using this firepower upgrade as a logical step toward the Caernarvon), and away we go. No reason not to do this, given that these were actual, real, feasible plans, and not just the mindless scribblings of some daydreaming intern while he was taking a sh*t on a rainy day (scribbles which somehow ended up ingame anyway).

 

Oh wait, they went and pre-emptively f*cked any chance of that happening right up didn't they. The Caernarvon doesn't get any of the 20-pdr guns now.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #13 Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:44 AM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 13 July 2018 - 01:24 AM, said:

 

Struggle? how? 390 alpha is nothing to scoff at even from a tier 9. it hurts. 217apcr is enough to go threw most front armor of heavies. and 175pen goes threw all side armor you meet. IS has 90mm side armor which is allot for a tier 7 if you bait shots correctly. its mobile so it can reposition, its clearly better than a BP in every aspect.

 

You make it sound like you want to keep the 171pen 150 alpha  17 pounder..... i dont get you at all. it hasent even got DPM.

 

Yes, i want to keep the 17-pounder. You're entitled to your opinion though.

 

But wait a minute!!!! You don't have a BP on this account. Did you play it in another account or you just generally moaning?



StuffKnight #14 Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:49 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 12 July 2018 - 11:44 PM, said:

 

Yes, i want to keep the 17-pounder. You're entitled to your opinion though.

 

But wait a minute!!!! You don't have a BP on this account. Did you play it in another account or you just generally moaning?

He does that a lot.

 

I'd be happy to sit around playing the Churchill series in a platoon with him. Hell, I'll even drag MR_FIAT in, he still has all his Churchill tanks too.

 

Yes, we both even have the wonderful Churchill GC. The pain never stops.



PervyPastryPuffer #15 Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:50 AM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 13 July 2018 - 12:29 AM, said:

Why remove the gold shell? its really not that much of a difference thanks to it being APCR. usualy if standard cant pen, the gold wont do anything ether. 17 pounder doesent have the gold shell "overkill pen" for teir 6 removed, that things gold is like 239 at tier 6.

 

There's really no point. The problem is, there's no middle ground with british guns in regards to their penetration; 17-pdr has 171 pen with AP, the next increase in caliber is the 20-pdr which jumps to 226 pen with AP. That's a 55mm difference from the previous tier. Even if you let it use APCR, the penetration only goes up to 258 - not much of an increase, I wouldn't load any APCR in that case.

 

View PostStuffKnight, on 13 July 2018 - 12:43 AM, said:

 

 

Except 226 still isn't enough for the inevitable head-on encounters with certain tanks in all these corridors, because as you can see here (yes I'm using the most obvious example), even the current 17-pdr's APCR with 239 pen isn't enough. And you ain't exactly gonna be flanking anyone or launching a high-speed early surprise in a Black Prince, meaning this sort of crap face-off will be the most common when encountering a highest-tier enemy. So yeah, "remove the premium rounds" is an ill-thought proposal, especially since the APCR on the 20-pdr only increases the pen cabability over the AP by 32mm to 258. Sure it'll likely just butter through most of it's same tier competition and even punch a few nice 84mm holes into many of the Tier VIII's, but this is only for 230 alpha per shot, which is still lower than any other Tier VII HT. And again, the tank itself moves like a brick in treacle.

 

So what you're basically saying here is, you want to allow a tank to use premium rounds to reliably penetrate the front of a superheavy two tiers higher than it?

 

That explains everything wrong with this game.


Edited by Tankyouverymuch2, 13 July 2018 - 12:51 AM.


Search_Warrant #16 Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:57 AM

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View PostTankyouverymuch2, on 12 July 2018 - 11:50 PM, said:

 

There's really no point. The problem is, there's no middle ground with british guns in regards to their penetration; 17-pdr has 171 pen with AP, the next increase in caliber is the 20-pdr which jumps to 226 pen with AP. That's a 55mm difference from the previous tier. Even if you let it use APCR, the penetration only goes up to 258 - not much of an increase, I wouldn't load any APCR in that case.

 

 

So what you're basically saying here is, you want to allow a tank to use premium rounds to reliably penetrate the front of a superheavy two tiers higher than it?

 

That explains everything wrong with this game.

 

To be fair you make it sound like we dont already have guns that autopen other tanks regardless of tier. you know about obj416 medium tank right? 330 HEAT? 320 alpha?

 

its a heavy tank at tier 7 with 20kmh top speed. it needs that gold pen or it will be free food for anything +2 tiers. but it doesent have DPM to do any real damage regardless even if it can pen them. lets face it, WG dont balance tanks around premium rounds. if they did my S1 wouldent be able to pen a Type5 angled with 330 APCR gold.

 

Gold has never been a balancing factor. just a terrible bandaid for this garbage +2mm.

 



StuffKnight #17 Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:00 AM

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View PostTankyouverymuch2, on 12 July 2018 - 11:50 PM, said:

So what you're basically saying here is, you want to allow a tank to use premium rounds to reliably penetrate the front of a superheavy two tiers higher than it?

 

That explains everything wrong with this game.

 

No, I'm saying that crippling a tank by supposedly upgunning it, only to actually give it less of a capability to stand up to a superheavy two tiers higher, is a dumb idea. Even you must see the fault in that sort of logic.

 

I said nothing about reliably penning it with every shot of APCR.


Edited by StuffKnight, 13 July 2018 - 01:00 AM.


Balc0ra #18 Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:02 AM

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You've been here since 2011 and still think WG had fun grinds in mind on every tank on a line? 

StuffKnight #19 Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:05 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 13 July 2018 - 12:02 AM, said:

You've been here since 2011 and still think WG had fun grinds in mind on every tank on a line? 

 

SerB must have pissing himself with laughter when the M3 Lee was put in the game.

PervyPastryPuffer #20 Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:06 AM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 13 July 2018 - 12:57 AM, said:

1. To be fair you make it sound like we dont already have guns that autopen other tanks regardless of tier. you know about obj416 medium tank right? 330 HEAT? 320 alpha?

 

2. its a heavy tank at tier 7 with 20kmh top speed. it needs that gold pen or it will be free food for anything +2 tiers. but it doesent have DPM to do any real damage regardless even if it can pen them. lets face it, WG dont balance tanks around premium rounds. if they did my S1 wouldent be able to pen a Type5 angled with 330 APCR gold.

 

Gold has never been a balancing factor. just a terrible bandaid for this garbage +2mm.

 

1. It's russian, so that's irrelevant. :trollface:

 

2. Precisely why I suggested increasing the top speed to 28 km/h.

 

We're not trying to overbuff it, are we? I think it would be reasonable to do what I said with it. I feel if we go any further than that it might be a bit too much. Balancing is a step-by-step process, not one big leap.

 

One thing I hate when a dev tries to balance something, is when this happens; oh it's underpowered, let's buff it - oh we overbuffed it, let's nerf it - oh we overnerfed it, buff again --- :facepalm:






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