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Should WG experiment with grand battles maps using 15 v 15

bigger maps Id buy that for a dollar L2P you nabs

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Kozzy #1 Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:22 AM

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Something that got mentioned in a previous thread and something I felt worthy of it's own thread.  Pretty sure it has been discussed elsewhere but don't remember a thread on the topic but here goes:

 

View PostSimeon85, on 12 July 2018 - 02:46 PM, said:

 

I think it would be interesting to see 15 v 15 games on the maps for Grand Battles, what would be interesting would be to see whether this made one sided games less frequent.

 

IMO the limited map design and small maps can only increase the snowball effect, if you only have two viable flanks then really you only have two places that a team can win/lose, and this means if a flank is won, it means that probably a lot of tanks beat a lot of enemy tanks (6-8). This generally means that the team then has a large numbers overload from there to quickly overhaul the remaining members of the enemy team.

 

On a bigger map, with more viable fighting spots, the engagements move from 8 - 12 plus tanks fighting over spots to much smaller battles of 2-6 tanks fighting over a spot, meaning a loss is less damaging and the overload they create is smaller. 

 

Thus instead of two flanks of 6v6 fighting with a few base campers, you might have 4 flanks of 3v3 fighting, so when a flank is lost by a team instead of 4-5 tanks marauding through, you might only have 1-2 and it's easier for the losing team to turn this around and obviously win elsewhere more quickly. 

 

 

 

and more...

 

View PostSimeon85, on 13 July 2018 - 08:01 AM, said:

 

The annoying thing is it wouldn't be hard, just tweak the maps to work for 15v15, slip them into the main rotation (could limit it to higher tiers initially if there were worries about view ranges/slower vehicles at lower tiers) and see what happens.

 

Especially as Grand Battles have largely been a failure, it would at least mean the map work didn't go to waste. 

 

 

I think this would be an amazing idea, and just slip it into the standard rotation and maybe only for same tier battles?  My only concerns are how slow tanks would cope and this kind of setup would certainly favour those that knew about camo, vision, positioning/re-positioning etc (so basically good players).

 

Thanks for Simeon85 for this, I couldn't be bothered to paraphrase or write my own stuff so just copy/pasta'd you if that's ok.

 

 

 

 

 



Tealo #2 Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:35 AM

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You mean like old school Wot  with open flanks and you have to use and be highly aware distance view/spotting ranges, with actual use ie looking at the map..

MPV_11 #3 Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:37 AM

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Personally I would love bigger maps. I find a lot of maps claustrophobic and you end up fighting with 2 or 3 tanks from your own side for 'that corner' on a lot of them - and on Grand Battles its even worse (which is why I have it turned off - well that and because I can't play T10 to save my life!). And a lot of the 1000 x 1000 maps are very constricted when you take into account the non-playable areas on them.

Simeon85 #4 Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:37 AM

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I did put it as a suggestion in the suggestions thread but I doubt it was picked up. 

 

With regards to the 'slow' tanks - 

 

Ensk map sees all tier 10 games and is 600 x 600. WG seem to think it's fine that tanks fight in such a small map and all the disadvantages that brings to lightly armoured high mobility tanks (Ensk is basically heavy tanks or GTFO). So I can't see why having 1.4km x 1.4km map for 15 v 15 couldn't also be an option on the basis that it would be a buff to underperforming light tanks, paper meds like the Leo etc. and other tanks that rely on mobility. 

 

There are several sub 1km maps - Ensk (600x600), Province (600x600), Mines, Himmelsdorf, Abbey, Ruinberg, Tundra and probably a few more. These tend to favour slower, heavily armoured tanks.

 

So having a few bigger maps that favour high mobility tanks seems only fair to me. 

 

 


Edited by Simeon85, 13 July 2018 - 09:44 AM.


clixor #5 Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:44 AM

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Perhaps WG can make it a Ranked Battle map. As a standard random map i doubt it will be fun. All the Steves in this game just will be slaughtered by high view range tanks with good crews (and food). 

 

For the rest the map itself is just a disaster, it has way too many camping spots.



Maschinenkanone #6 Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:45 AM

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"Should WG experiment with grand battles maps using 15 v 15"

 

 

DEFINATELY Yes. 30 vs 30 on somewhat larger maps is basically the same as 15 vs 15 on somewhat smaller maps. The gameplay is identical. 15v15 on larger maps however would provide a completely different scenario and would therefore be a true variation of the usual map & gameplay setup.


 

True variation > fake variation.


 


Edited by Maschinenkanone, 13 July 2018 - 09:46 AM.


Kozzy #7 Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:59 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 13 July 2018 - 08:37 AM, said:

I did put it as a suggestion in the suggestions thread but I doubt it was picked up. 

 

With regards to the 'slow' tanks - 

 

Ensk map sees all tier 10 games and is 600 x 600. WG seem to think it's fine that tanks fight in such a small map and all the disadvantages that brings to lightly armoured high mobility tanks (Ensk is basically heavy tanks or GTFO). So I can't see why having 1.4km x 1.4km map for 15 v 15 couldn't also be an option on the basis that it would be a buff to underperforming light tanks, paper meds like the Leo etc. and other tanks that rely on mobility. 

 

There are several sub 1km maps - Ensk (600x600), Province (600x600), Mines, Himmelsdorf, Abbey, Ruinberg, Tundra and probably a few more. These tend to favour slower, heavily armoured tanks.

 

So having a few bigger maps that favour high mobility tanks seems only fair to me. 

 

 

 

That's a fair point.  I was kind of thinking slightly more dynamic spawn locations perhaps as some players will probably just afk the larger maps in sub-30-kph tanks.

 

View PostTealo, on 13 July 2018 - 08:35 AM, said:

You mean like old school Wot with open flanks and you have to use and be highly aware distance view/spotting ranges, with actual use ie looking at the map..

 

Yeah, I feel the battles could flow a bit more and skill would be better rewarded.

 

 



Dava_117 #8 Posted 13 July 2018 - 10:07 AM

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I don't think it's a good idea. Grand battle maps (Nebelburg in particular) have a lot of basecamping spots that are already hard to push with 6 tanks. 

The only failure of GB is that it's a tier 10 only mode. I enjoyed them, but with how WG is quickly demolishing tier 10 balance, it's not funny anymore.


Edited by Dava_117, 13 July 2018 - 10:07 AM.


wremise #9 Posted 13 July 2018 - 10:16 AM

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what we need is a 30 vs 30 Frontline CW battle!

Baldrickk #10 Posted 13 July 2018 - 10:23 AM

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View PostDava_117, on 13 July 2018 - 10:07 AM, said:

I don't think it's a good idea. Grand battle maps (Nebelburg in particular) have a lot of basecamping spots that are already hard to push with 6 tanks. 

The only failure of GB is that it's a tier 10 only mode. I enjoyed them, but with how WG is quickly demolishing tier 10 balance, it's not funny anymore.

 But smaller teams mean that they can't cover all the locations. 

That means that there will be holes in the defence, through teams being too spread out or just not covering that bit of the map. 

Exploiting those holes would let you get around the enemy on ways only possible in the clean-up phase of grand battles. 



Dava_117 #11 Posted 13 July 2018 - 10:39 AM

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View PostBaldrickk, on 13 July 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

 But smaller teams mean that they can't cover all the locations. 

That means that there will be holes in the defence, through teams being too spread out or just not covering that bit of the map. 

Exploiting those holes would let you get around the enemy on ways only possible in the clean-up phase of grand battles. 

 

That would really be the main advantage if WG had propely made the strong position on the map. 

Take Nebelburg as an example: both the bases are positioned just in front of a bushy plateau that not only covers the base, but all the area surrounding. Guess that actually the TDs camping there can be killed by sworming them from both sides, but it require a lot of team coordination and still can be a bloody operation. 

I doubt WG will remove those areas, evem if it would be better IMO...


Edited by Dava_117, 13 July 2018 - 10:40 AM.


Xandania #12 Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:11 PM

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View Postwremise, on 13 July 2018 - 09:16 AM, said:

what we need is a Historical 30 vs 30 Frontline Domination Steel Hunt CW battle!

 

fixed that a bit - guess I've forgotten something as well xD

wEight_Tanker #13 Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:16 PM

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Malinovka 30v30

OIias_of_Sunhillow #14 Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:19 PM

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There will be a huge leap in the amount of, 'Draws'.

GentlemanDZ1991 #15 Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:56 PM

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It's possible but a lot of the games played on these maps will end into draws. the average WOT player tends to camp, and with large maps with open fields and lots of concealement, most will just camp until its too late to move. waste of time in my opinion 

Lord_Barbarozza #16 Posted 13 July 2018 - 03:09 PM

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People are already having bad experiences on smaller maps, Grand Battles just meant the same would happen 30v30.

 

On Nebelenburg you could take your slow heavy tank to the center castle, but not any further. You could take it to the city and then use 1 year to relocate.

 

Make a dynamic map with many options to break into the enemies side without being facepalmed by invisible campers.

 

For example, if you double the size of Himmelsdorf by mirroring the map or something with the castle hill in the middle in a 15v15 battle, that means there are double the options to move around the map to avoid 2 or 3 choke points, you can drive around the quarters and streets without having to find a safe spot on your side of the map to pinch through 5v5 choke points.

It means the teams have to work together to cover each others blind spots to not get flanked and farmed,

Type 5 can still drive straight forward, but the other tanks can try and be smart with their non armor tanks other places than just the hill.

 

Its not like you need to hire a science team to make things perfect, just let designers or even the community experiment and make map solutions.



ogremage #17 Posted 13 July 2018 - 08:43 PM

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Yes, just put these maps in normal 15 vs 15 rotation.




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