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What pen is 'enough' at tier 8 assuming that...


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Wintermute_1 #1 Posted 14 July 2018 - 03:47 PM

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The assumptions:

- You are bottom tier

- You aren't spending all game looking for tier 8s to shoot but equally you aren't trying to pen Type 5s from the front.

- You want a decent chance to pen a tier 9 tank, not through its strongest armour but through an obvious weak spot like a cupola or the lower plate. Assuming you're not firing gold.

 

I ask because it can be quite difficult to ascertain (for me at least) what's playable in tier 8 given the current MM.

 

Examples:

For me the Rev feels very playable from bottom tier with 200 pen, but is this just because it has a load of gun depression and a fast shell speed, meaning you can keep out of trouble easily.

The FV4202 has 226 pen but feels less playable, perhaps because the alpha is inadequate to hurt so many tanks at tier 9 and 10.

Lowe absolutely fine atm with 234 pen, mainly because you have the accuracy to damage higher tier heavies.

The 112 with 175 pen is plain inadequate despite never seeing tier 10 because you often can't get through the front of same tier heavies from the front.  

 

If you could post up the name of tier 8 tanks, their (std round) pen and if you think they are a good or bad tank given the assumptions above and why you think that. I'd find that interesting.

 

 



Suurpolskija #2 Posted 14 July 2018 - 04:04 PM

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I think 180mm is pretty much the minimum pen which I feel comfortable playing with. For example T-34-3 175mm pen starts to struggle against LFP's and turret sides of heavy tanks and such and I don't like that because it makes you helpless if caught unaware. 

 

Progetto has 217mm (or something) and it's very good. Revalorise with 200mm pen is a good tank too as long as you know where to position it. 



Desyatnik_Pansy #3 Posted 14 July 2018 - 04:10 PM

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View PostSuurpolskija, on 14 July 2018 - 04:04 PM, said:

I think 180mm is pretty much the minimum pen which I feel comfortable playing with. For example T-34-3 175mm pen starts to struggle against LFP's and turret sides of heavy tanks and such and I don't like that because it makes you helpless if caught unaware. 

 

Progetto has 217mm (or something) and it's very good. Revalorise with 200mm pen is a good tank too as long as you know where to position it. 

 

212mm, but close enough. Between that and 220 Is where I'm probably comfortable with tanks on Tier VIII, but it does really depend. I've been playing Charioteer too much and gotten a bit too used to 268mm at Tier VIII on a mobile platform, so it can be kinda odd going back to 212mm or lower from time to time.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #4 Posted 14 July 2018 - 04:11 PM

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200. Lower than that things can get unreliable.

Akathis #5 Posted 14 July 2018 - 04:11 PM

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212 is the minimum.

226 is more comfortable.

240 would be the appropriate penetration, given the current MM, influx of very well armored tier 9 and 10, aaaaand the very low alpha/dpm of almost every tier 8.



Mko #6 Posted 14 July 2018 - 04:30 PM

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To face tier 10s? I dont think any tier 8 has enough normal ammo pen to face tier 10s. Those times are long gone.

WindSplitter1 #7 Posted 14 July 2018 - 04:35 PM

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View PostMko, on 14 July 2018 - 03:30 PM, said:

To face tier 10s? I dont think any tier 8 has enough normal ammo pen to face tier 10s. Those times are long gone.

 

*Cough* Skorpion G/Borsig *cough*

Mko #8 Posted 14 July 2018 - 04:40 PM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 14 July 2018 - 04:35 PM, said:

 

*Cough* Skorpion G/Borsig *cough*

 

Yeah of course TDs with tier 10 guns. Though really even those guns can struggle, especially vs. the superheavies which are basically weakspotless.

Wintermute_1 #9 Posted 14 July 2018 - 05:10 PM

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View PostMko, on 14 July 2018 - 04:30 PM, said:

To face tier 10s? I dont think any tier 8 has enough normal ammo pen to face tier 10s. Those times are long gone.

 

To face 'most' tier 9s.

 

Although when you are talking heavies, i think they gravitate to the same areas of the map regardless of tier and are less able to leave those areas once they find themselves there. I think tier 8 heavies probably have the crappiest deal of any of the tier 8 tank types.



Browarszky #10 Posted 14 July 2018 - 05:11 PM

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As a point of reference, the tier 9 M46 Patton stock gun has 160 mm pen, whereas the Chinese T-34-1 best gun at tier 7 has 175 mm.

Hiisi #11 Posted 14 July 2018 - 05:43 PM

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View PostBrowarszky, on 14 July 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

As a point of reference, the tier 9 M46 Patton stock gun has 160 mm pen, whereas the Chinese T-34-1 best gun at tier 7 has 175 mm.

 

but t-34-1 doesnt have any pen if it doesnt take any ammo...

Edited by Hiisi, 14 July 2018 - 05:43 PM.


Tankyouverymuch2 #12 Posted 14 July 2018 - 05:55 PM

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200-220mm feels balanced to me.

 

But I can make 175mm work just fine too. :great:



enu_ #13 Posted 14 July 2018 - 06:55 PM

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260mm (edited: in current meta)

Edited by enu_, 14 July 2018 - 06:56 PM.


Maauru #14 Posted 14 July 2018 - 07:30 PM

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288 standard penetration on STRV S1 work fine in current T8 MM :hiding:

Xandania #15 Posted 14 July 2018 - 07:36 PM

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The only tank so far I foudn lacking is that American tier 8 autoloader with less pen than my Superpershing...

Dava_117 #16 Posted 14 July 2018 - 09:21 PM

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From my experience, 225-227 is already enought to deal with most tanks in game. 260 is really good and 270+ is superb.

Wintermute_1 #17 Posted 14 July 2018 - 09:44 PM

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So I'm getting that 200 is manageable but 210, 215, 220 is the sweet spot. And 220+ is a bonus. 

FluffyRedFox #18 Posted 14 July 2018 - 11:17 PM

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I like the 20pdr on the 4202, enough standard pen to keep up with the overbufed armour and accurate enough that I don't feel the need to gold spam that much, and when I do need that 2 key, its usually sufficient enough for the job.

Also have the mod1 and played t-44 semi-recently, their 100mms feel a bit gimped with only 190 base pen, with the premium shells having issues penning the lower plate of an E75 flat on.

So outta my tanks, the 4202 wins hands down with regards to gun comfy-ness. 



Wintermute_1 #19 Posted 15 July 2018 - 12:40 AM

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So I'd say of the non premium medium tanks based purely on the highest pen of their available guns given the current MM:

 

Avoid like the plague: T32-2, T69,

Avoid: Pershing, T44, TVP VTU

Manageable: Obj 416

Good: Indien, P44 Pantera

Best: STA 1, Centurion 1, Panther 2

 

 



kaneloon #20 Posted 15 July 2018 - 01:28 AM

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Pen is not everything. STA 2 has a nice pen on paper, but you can only snipe the tiers 10 with your armor, and good luck to hit anything from far away.

T26E5 is way better, just aced it tonight at 1600 xp in tiers X with standard ammo, 100k cred. Penned a jpzE100 frontally.






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