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So...what to do with light tanks...


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DrMechano #1 Posted 15 July 2018 - 02:58 AM

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Currently I'd say there were probably about 2-3 actually fun to play light tanks left in WoT. The Luchs/Leopard (putting them together because it's all about the 3cm autocannon with them), the Stuart and MAYBE the T49 if you want a highly inaccurate derp that requires point blank range to be useful.

 

With the View range nerf they just feel like worse mediums 90% of the time, especially when combined with the honestly terrible map design we've been seeing recently which is just choke points upon choke points with very little opportunity to flank or bush cover to passive spot (or hell enough ridgelines to active spot).

 

The question now is, just what do we do about Light Tanks being...well...kind of crap....they need their old view range back, there was no reason for it to be stripped back to what it was to the point where its either on par or worse than same tier mediums. The health and pen nerfs were faaar too much. 145 pen at tier 7? So I'm meant to go against tier 9s in corridor maps with little flanking opportunity with 145 pen? Really? 171 Pen was just about bearable but 145?

 

The RASHA! and French lines seem to be doing alright but everyone else has just been nerfed into Oblivion. Are we ever going to see a fix to this or is WG sticking their heads in the sand and letting off muffled yells that everything is fine? Most players I've come across only play light tanks because of the campaign missions and they don't want to play arty...



uglycousin #2 Posted 15 July 2018 - 04:59 AM

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I actually still like playing light tanks. Even if most of the maps do not help them much, light tanks gameplay is rewarding for me.

 

Low pen is not a problem, lights are not designed to take on armored tanks from the front ( hard to flank on a corridor map though ).



snowlywhite #3 Posted 15 July 2018 - 06:31 AM

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play them till tier 7 probably; from tier 8 on... Maybe tier 9 french/rasha. Tier 9 china if you can stand the gun handling.

 

personally I like all the tier 7s(beside german one - doh :)))). Like luchs, like elc.

 

don't like the tier 6s; they're totally bland(I don't have type 64). Hard to see a diff. between them, 'xcept 12t.



Geordiedonkey #4 Posted 15 July 2018 - 09:28 AM

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I pretty much only play light tanks, and because of this I have very good crews

For instance my T71DA has 492 m view range my T64 has 483 and my T49 has an incredible 516 all without binocs

So spotting is not a problem normally, the problems are silent shots too many to count half your hit points gone when your looking at the mini map

And certain dodgy bushes that don't work as they should also when you are 15 meters behind a bush you should be un-spotable  but firing say 3 shots in a row from a autoloader

and off goes my 6 sense? (does camo drop as you fire more shots now)

My T92 is great fun on the right map great view range T71 or T49 crew and neary 39% camo but I don't take gold on this tank because of the high cost (5600 each)

Also I do make good credits allowing me to run food and premium ammo on the T64 good pen and excellent shell velocity 

I don't worry about my stats they go up and down like a tart's knickers on a saturday night, but win or lose I think well my crew has got that little bit better

 



vasilinhorulezz #5 Posted 15 July 2018 - 10:01 AM

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Sold my T37 after the changes,

really, really liked the gun on that tank.

The problem is WG had the idea to make lights pure scouts,

with 60% of the maps being useless for scouts and

the real problem is to not buff lights to be discount mediums, but this is pretty much

how you have to play, in the current map rotation.

Tier 10 lights are in a really bad spot, completely useless,

bad accuracy, dispersion, dpm and most important

mobility is *edited*, you cant outrun a batchat, and pretty much all the mediums you meet.

 

Tier 9 lights are probably the sweet spot, in my opinion,

with tier 8s and tier 10s to be on the weak side.
 


Edited by NickMustaine, 16 July 2018 - 12:58 PM.
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Dava_117 #6 Posted 15 July 2018 - 10:48 AM

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View Postvasilinhorulezz, on 15 July 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

Sold my T37 after the changes,

really, really liked the gun on that tank.

The problem is WG had the idea to make lights pure scouts,

with 60% of the maps being useless for scouts and

the real problem is to not buff lights to be discount mediums, but this is pretty much

how you have to play, in the current map rotation.

Tier 10 lights are in a really bad spot, completely useless,

bad accuracy, dispersion, dpm and most important

mobility is*edited*, you cant outrun a batchat, and pretty much all the mediums you meet.

 

Tier 9 lights are probably the sweet spot, in my opinion,

with tier 8s and tier 10s to be on the weak side.
 

 

That actually would have made them different from MT. The problem is that WG said LTs are scouts and then nerfed VR and engine power. They should revert those nerfs and further buff VR in high tier. Tier 10LT should start with 445m base VR and tier 9 with 430-420m.



Bordhaw #7 Posted 15 July 2018 - 10:58 AM

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View PostDrMechano, on 15 July 2018 - 01:58 AM, said:

Currently I'd say there were probably about 2-3 actually fun to play light tanks left in WoT. The Luchs/Leopard (putting them together because it's all about the 3cm autocannon with them), the Stuart and MAYBE the T49 if you want a highly inaccurate derp that requires point blank range to be useful.

 

With the View range nerf they just feel like worse mediums 90% of the time, especially when combined with the honestly terrible map design we've been seeing recently which is just choke points upon choke points with very little opportunity to flank or bush cover to passive spot (or hell enough ridgelines to active spot).

 

The question now is, just what do we do about Light Tanks being...well...kind of crap....they need their old view range back, there was no reason for it to be stripped back to what it was to the point where its either on par or worse than same tier mediums. The health and pen nerfs were faaar too much. 145 pen at tier 7? So I'm meant to go against tier 9s in corridor maps with little flanking opportunity with 145 pen? Really? 171 Pen was just about bearable but 145?

 

The RASHA! and French lines seem to be doing alright but everyone else has just been nerfed into Oblivion. Are we ever going to see a fix to this or is WG sticking their heads in the sand and letting off muffled yells that everything is fine? Most players I've come across only play light tanks because of the campaign missions and they don't want to play arty...

 

 

 



lnfernaI #8 Posted 15 July 2018 - 10:58 AM

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I think only certain soviet,american and chinese LTs are worth playing.

the former having the DPM as I already mentioned in m LTG thread (and speaking of which,I won't sell it for awhile; it's amazing).

the second having viewrange and some derps (although I only have the T92,so I'm in no place to judge).

and the latter having...I actually don't know,haven't played them in a very long time,ever since tier 8 led to WZ-120 (and subsequently, to 121)

 

the worst problem about 90% of LTs, is that they are team-dependent,and if your team is quite the trash; you're suffering too; from their stupidity. However the russian lights from tier 7,despite the weak viewrange values,can still be played as mediums in the same tier,just like I played LTG as if I played either my T-43, or KV-13 (considering the fact I unicumed each of these tanks). It's actually fun,and can ram all other lights on the same tier to hell,especially the ones weighing <10t.

View PostDrMechano, on 15 July 2018 - 03:58 AM, said:

 the Stuart 

 

if it ain't bloody M5A1,then i'll hate you for the rest of my life.:trollface:

 



Search_Warrant #9 Posted 15 July 2018 - 01:23 PM

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Lets give them much less hitpoints, armor and.... everything.. and we compensate that with..camo on the move... great trade eh?

DrMechano #10 Posted 15 July 2018 - 01:49 PM

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View PostBordhaw, on 15 July 2018 - 09:58 AM, said:

 

 

 

 

I know but I took a break from the game and came back, I loved playing my light tanks...pootling around in the Luchs harrassing tier 7s was always a good chuckle or the WZ-132 for its decent firepower for a light tank and I come back and with the introduction of the tier 10s most of them have been nerfed into oblivion.

 

They took away the 105 derp from the VK2801 and the 100mm from the WZ-131/132 for example, which was part of their character, everyones view range, pen and firepower got nerfed substantially for literally no good reason, especially with the new focus WG has on Corridor maps (Krapkov is now becoming a corridor map, whereas before it had flanking opportunities for lights and mediums...which they saw as a bad thing...wtf?).

 

The Awfulpanther got removed for a fairly generic light tank design (I mean yes it wasn't an amazing light tank but it was a great Anti-LT bully tank with its weight).

 

Like with the loss of the scout MM I could understand the pen nerf, sort of, but why were they massively reduce in view range...the entire point of a scout along with camo on the move. Yes, obviously you're not meant to fight heavies frontally but 145 pen vs an ST-I or Type 4 is just inadequate even if you manage to get their sides or rear.

 

Its one of those things where the lines were actually perfectly fine before the introduction of the tier 10 and now a lot of them are just *edited*.

 

The other problem is completing the campaign missions is now MUCH harder because 9/10 you're competing with higher tiered light tanks, back in the old scout MM it was usually just your or one other person. I think the campaign missions could do with a reduction just because spotting has become much harder to do and much more competitive


Edited by NickMustaine, 16 July 2018 - 01:00 PM.
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Balc0ra #11 Posted 15 July 2018 - 02:35 PM

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Depends on your style I guess. Going by the tanks you named. Damage is a vital factor for you as well. After the LT changes, I only sold off the SP1C. It's a good passive scout. But sucks at everything else now. M41 is still good as a spotter still, as he has the speed to get to vital points, unlike the SP1C. Heck I even bought back some to test them out and decided to keep them, as I like them more now vs before. Like the T50 or even the M7. Heck I even still like the Chaffee. Then you have others that still feel like the same. Like the RU. 

 

13 90 & T71 to name a few are way more fun and flexible now vs before. I've played my 13 90 more now then pre LT change after the reload got shorter. T49 became more solid for me with the 90mm. As the bully factor is as vital as camo and view range for me. 13 90 can do all 3 now. 

 

 

View PostDrMechano, on 15 July 2018 - 01:49 PM, said:

Like with the loss of the scout MM I could understand the pen nerf, sort of, but why were they massively reduce in view range...the entire point of a scout along with camo on the move. Yes, obviously you're not meant to fight heavies frontally but 145 pen vs an ST-I or Type 4 is just inadequate even if you manage to get their sides or rear.

 

Most make it sound like losing 20m makes them the worst scout in the world suddenly vs before. Most of them still can get to 445m or more with optics and crew skills rather easy. Tho yes it still don't make it less silly, as I don't get why the 12t has 20m less view range then any tier 8 med. And if your target is a Swedish TD behind a double bush. Then you won't spot it at 400m or 380 even for it to matter if you don't run optics even. As then the med next to you is even more screwed with the 400 base view range. Then your camo on the move and mobility is more vital. 

 

View PostDrMechano, on 15 July 2018 - 01:49 PM, said:

They took away the 105 derp from the VK2801 and the 100mm from the WZ-131/132 for example, which was part of their character

 

105 derp on the 2801 facing tier 4's with that camo/mobility factor would be insane. It would allow it to stay if the reload was longer. As vs say even the tier 5 meds with it. It has several other advantages vs before when it could not be top tier with it. Same with the 100mm. I kinda get why they took it away. But if the DPM was way less vs the 85. I suspect ppl would still use it. Kinda like the 122mm on the KV-85. It has the alpha, but the dpm is terrible with it. 

 

View PostDrMechano, on 15 July 2018 - 01:49 PM, said:

 obviously you're not meant to fight heavies frontally but 145 pen vs an ST-I or Type 4 is just inadequate even if you manage to get their sides or rear.

 

T71 still needs a bit above an average roll to pen the side. As above the tracks, the Type 4 is 145,5mm. Rear is 150mm. ST-I still has the 115mm effective rear hull that's easy to bully. So it's not impossible. But if you need to deal with those, it means every med, TD and HT on your team did not do their job sadly anyway. But at least it's easy to hide below the Type 4's gun. Can't say the same about the ST-I. 

 

 

View PostDrMechano, on 15 July 2018 - 01:49 PM, said:

The other problem is completing the campaign missions is now MUCH harder because 9/10 you're competing with higher tiered light tanks, back in the old scout MM it was usually just your or one other person. I think the campaign missions could do with a reduction just because spotting has become much harder to do and much more competitive

 

I feel it's the other way around. I have no issues getting good assist games now and then still. Even with tier X lights on my team. As 90% of those don't play like their job is intel anyway. I feel most LT's on tier 9/10 focus on damage over assist for me to worry about it in my tier 8 LT's etc. As now most active spot and die instantly, or they sit behind the TD's and farm damage. Passive spotting became a lost art after the LT changes. Thus... I got my LT missions done easier and faster vs before.  

 

 

 

 



peekakilla #12 Posted 15 July 2018 - 02:57 PM

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pad your wn8

DrMechano #13 Posted 15 July 2018 - 03:20 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 15 July 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:

Depends on your style I guess. Going by the tanks you named. Damage is a vital factor for you as well. After the LT changes, I only sold off the SP1C. It's a good passive scout. But sucks at everything else now. M41 is still good as a spotter still, as he has the speed to get to vital points, unlike the SP1C. Heck I even bought back some to test them out and decided to keep them, as I like them more now vs before. Like the T50 or even the M7. Heck I even still like the Chaffee. Then you have others that still feel like the same. Like the RU.

 

Thats just it, occasionally and if you REALLY had to, a light tank could fight its way out of a situation if you got lucky/were skilled enough. Now it is getting increasingly hard to do that OR even to spot because for some reason WG have decided they hate the idea of passive scouting and granting flanking opportunites and maps are seeing increasingly less and less bush cover and more restrictive attack/defend routes.

 

Not only that but a decent number of missions are "Do X spotting damage AND deal X amount of damage", they aren't accumulative like some of the other missions are.

 

Also the T-50 is considered pretty much THE best tier 5 scout IIRC because of its good pen combined with good DPM and good mobility.


Edited by DrMechano, 15 July 2018 - 03:22 PM.


Gremlin182 #14 Posted 15 July 2018 - 03:56 PM

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Still like light tanks still play them a lot probably more than any other type.

Definitely have to many in my garage 46 at the last count but that includes all the low tier premiums wargaming have given away.

 

They nerfed the view range of some Light tanks a little but its still easy to exceed max view range with light tanks and anyway view range was their secondary characteristic.

Maintaining camo on the move was the primary one

View range speed maneuverability next.

The nerf that hurt most was to accuracy they do not mind light tanks spotting and hiding but they hate that they could also snipe.

 

Still enjoy playing a lot of light tanks, premiums are in bold.

Tier 4 Luchs and Covenanter

Tier 5 Leopard,  AMX ELC bis

Tier 6 Type 64,  59-16

Tier 7 T71 DA,  AMX 13-75,  AMX 13-57,  Type 62

Tier 8 LTTB,  WZ132,  M41-90 GF,  T92,  ELC EVEN 90

Tier 9 RU251,  AMX 13-90,  T54 LTWT,  T49

 

Also still have the VK28-01 just in case they bring back the 105mm gun

The HWK and BC12t are aso in my garage but they don't get played much They appeared when the lines changed so I put in crews and equipment to try them out I just don't need them at the moment.



gav00 #15 Posted 15 July 2018 - 04:17 PM

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If the maps were bigger it would give every vehicle a more even chance to do something worthwhile

FluffyRedFox #16 Posted 15 July 2018 - 07:43 PM

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For the most part, they need DPM, accuracy and view range buffs. 

Mko #17 Posted 15 July 2018 - 07:55 PM

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It's mostly a map problem. If you have a corridor map where all the strengths of your light tank are mostly irrelevant, then it's obviously going to be bad.

 

If you get a map where you can actually scout, then you need your teammates to shoot and do damage. That may be tricky somethimes.


Edited by Mko, 15 July 2018 - 07:55 PM.


lnfernaI #18 Posted 15 July 2018 - 08:55 PM

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View PostGremlin182, on 15 July 2018 - 04:56 PM, said:

Still like light tanks still play them a lot probably more than any other type.

Definitely have to many in my garage 46 at the last count but that includes all the low tier premiums wargaming have given away.

 

They nerfed the view range of some Light tanks a little but its still easy to exceed max view range with light tanks and anyway view range was their secondary characteristic.

Maintaining camo on the move was the primary one

View range speed maneuverability next.

The nerf that hurt most was to accuracy they do not mind light tanks spotting and hiding but they hate that they could also snipe.

 

Still enjoy playing a lot of light tanks, premiums are in bold.

Tier 4 Luchs and Covenanter

Tier 5 Leopard,  AMX ELC bis

Tier 6 Type 64,  59-16

Tier 7 T71 DA,  AMX 13-75,  AMX 13-57,  Type 62

Tier 8 LTTB,  WZ132,  M41-90 GF,  T92,  ELC EVEN 90

Tier 9 RU251,  AMX 13-90,  T54 LTWT,  T49

 

Also still have the VK28-01 just in case they bring back the 105mm gun

The HWK and BC12t are aso in my garage but they don't get played much They appeared when the lines changed so I put in crews and equipment to try them out I just don't need them at the moment.

 

i want to give you a negrep for not mentioning the light tanks I play.

Adrian_iron_steel #19 Posted 16 July 2018 - 05:47 AM

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Play lights ok. Where? There are 2-3 maps where you can spot something. Flank what ... And where? I used light only for personal mission.

lnfernaI #20 Posted 16 July 2018 - 06:23 AM

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View PostAdrian_iron_steel, on 16 July 2018 - 06:47 AM, said:

Play lights ok. Where? There are 2-3 maps where you can spot something. Flank what ... And where? I used light only for personal mission.

You can scout on all maps,just depends how the situation pans out. tf you talking about?






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