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World of Tanks has become almost unplayable :(

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Procjon #41 Posted 16 July 2018 - 07:30 PM

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View PostgunslingerXXX, on 15 July 2018 - 11:49 AM, said:

 

 

 

Great wall of china text

 

Better to have a lot of text to read about the game than 5 words of useless comment of yours.

What's the point you make in regards to this thread? that if i copy multi-quotes i can make a lot of text? :facepalm:.

 

Btw, i decided to not extend premium account as i'm loosing the level of enjoyment i used to have while playing this game.

 

HF

 

 



Stalpanter #42 Posted 16 July 2018 - 08:09 PM

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View Postpeekakilla, on 15 July 2018 - 01:52 PM, said:

this is the EU forum, there are no mexicans here.

 

We got mexicans here, Finns are our scandinavian mexicans. :trollface:

gunslingerXXX #43 Posted 16 July 2018 - 08:58 PM

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View PostProcjon, on 16 July 2018 - 07:30 PM, said:

 

Better to have a lot of text to read about the game than 5 words of useless comment of yours.

What's the point you make in regards to this thread? that if i copy multi-quotes i can make a lot of text? :facepalm:.

 

Btw, i decided to not extend premium account as i'm loosing the level of enjoyment i used to have while playing this game.

 

HF

 

 

It was a joke.



truoste #44 Posted 17 July 2018 - 06:13 AM

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View PostElement6_TheSprout, on 16 July 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

That's not really true because I do agree that SPGs ruin the fun of players that do not think they have a place in the game, for example. I do not disagree with such things, what I do disagree with are claims that obviously are pure assumptions based off of extremely limited and biased data.

 

Do you have trouble understanding the following?

 

- Claim; "Most players hate artillery"

- Questioning said claim; How can most players hate artillery when every one of us get them in almost all of our battles? If every player out there who plays randoms get a lot of SPGs in their battles we can safely assume that there must be a lot of players that press battle in the class, because it is mathematically impossible for a few individuals to appear in all player's battles with an SPG. It doesn't add up in any logical way. If all battles on average contain 2 SPGs per side, then 4 out of every 30 players that press battle does so in an SPG, and they are not the same individuals, it cycles, so the real number of players that sometimes press battle in SPGs is way high.

 

That's the kind of thing I disagree with.

 

Then of course I have my own personal opinion that SPGs are good for my gaming experience, but I never claim that it is good for all, like SPG haters seem to do when they say that nobody likes them. How you can not understand such important differences is a little interesting to be honest.

 

Oh but mostly it seems to be the case with your arguments. Why would I or anyone have issues following with that or anything else? What does it matter if someone says that arty is hated by most players? Usually they have something else to add i.e. the reasoning of their frustration, yet you stick with something that is not all that relevant. Sure it is exaggeration but your issue is that you cannot seem to see anything but that.

 

The way I see it, it is not even far fetched exaggeration. Which class has by far most amount of topics and usually not in an good way? Which class as whole has seen most changes? Which class is part of the "unholy trinity" of wargaming? Which single class is usually commented and not in a good way by live streamers/youtubers? There are plenty of hints that arty is actually one of the most controversial topics. 

 

Sure arty is played to some extent by most players but what does that tell us? What does the amount of matches I have played with arties tell to you? Do I like it? I also have 3-4 (if I remember correctly, cannot be arsed to check) arties in my garage. What does that tell you? Did we not have this very same conversation about you making conclusions about numbers in very funky way that suits your agenda?   

 



Fighto #45 Posted 17 July 2018 - 11:08 AM

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OP is right on the button. I play WOWS a lot and while it has it's problems, it puts this game to shame. The MM and skill level in this game right now is utterly pathetic. I'm very average stat wise but majority of games at tier 9/10 I'm 3 or 4 highest , that was previously never the case.( not talking about win chance before anyone goes off on one about XVM). Green/blue purple players are rare now, average win rate i see is 45%

 

I've played this game from day 1 but the only reason I'm still playing is my clan/habit and I wonder how many people are in the same boat, I tried randoms today and it was just painful and was in no way enjoyable. 



Snaques #46 Posted 17 July 2018 - 11:18 AM

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For me the arty is really the killer here. All of the others you can sort of account for, but arty just forces you to be passive. It sucks the fun out of the game as camping is not why I play the game.

 

I would pay money for an arty free "Super Premium Account".



truoste #47 Posted 17 July 2018 - 12:28 PM

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View PostCmdRatScabies, on 15 July 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

 

Sadly I think you might be right.  I'm holding out hope that it's c0ck up rather than a plan or that they change direction as the plan doesn't appear to be working but it's gonna take a while.

 

I was hoping for that too but their actions all sort of indicate otherwise and it has been like that for over 2 years now and it seems to get worse and worse. V4 was the final straw for me. I am still hoping for miracle but likelihood of that is next to nonexistent. But watching random clips every now and then is nowadays better than playing. Best of both worlds I presume.   

Element6 #48 Posted 17 July 2018 - 12:47 PM

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View Posttruoste, on 17 July 2018 - 06:13 AM, said:

 

Oh but mostly it seems to be the case with your arguments. Why would I or anyone have issues following with that or anything else? What does it matter if someone says that arty is hated by most players? Usually they have something else to add i.e. the reasoning of their frustration, yet you stick with something that is not all that relevant. Sure it is exaggeration but your issue is that you cannot seem to see anything but that.

 

The way I see it, it is not even far fetched exaggeration. Which class has by far most amount of topics and usually not in an good way? Which class as whole has seen most changes? Which class is part of the "unholy trinity" of wargaming? Which single class is usually commented and not in a good way by live streamers/youtubers? There are plenty of hints that arty is actually one of the most controversial topics. 

 

Sure arty is played to some extent by most players but what does that tell us? What does the amount of matches I have played with arties tell to you? Do I like it? I also have 3-4 (if I remember correctly, cannot be arsed to check) arties in my garage. What does that tell you? Did we not have this very same conversation about you making conclusions about numbers in very funky way that suits your agenda?   

 

It is very relevant if the idea that most hate something is the reasoning behind a change being warranted. There is nothing wrong with asking for a change based on one's perception of the game in it's current state, but to say that it is warranted because a majority thinks so, when no player can make that claim, then it is wrong. That's all there is to it.

 

Thing here is that those that oppose to SPGs seem to think that a sticky thread that is over 200 pages long is irrelevant because it is all gathered in one place, where it seems that they need daily threads to feel noticed. I mean, WG themselves has created the stick, it's not like they do not know about it.

 

So in essence the ones that feel the need to complain suffer from the "notice me senpai" syndrome and flood the gameplay section because the developer has not listened much to them in 7 years.



truoste #49 Posted 17 July 2018 - 03:12 PM

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View PostElement6_TheSprout, on 17 July 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

It is very relevant if the idea that most hate something is the reasoning behind a change being warranted. There is nothing wrong with asking for a change based on one's perception of the game in it's current state, but to say that it is warranted because a majority thinks so, when no player can make that claim, then it is wrong. That's all there is to it.

 

Thing here is that those that oppose to SPGs seem to think that a sticky thread that is over 200 pages long is irrelevant because it is all gathered in one place, where it seems that they need daily threads to feel noticed. I mean, WG themselves has created the stick, it's not like they do not know about it.

 

So in essence the ones that feel the need to complain suffer from the "notice me senpai" syndrome and flood the gameplay section because the developer has not listened much to them in 7 years.

 

What makes you think this is a democracy? What makes you think forums have any relevance at all to WG? What makes you think that even if WG would actually read stuff from forums they could not understand that one persons opinion is that specific persons opinion regardless how they try to reason it? So once again, what difference does it make if someone uses exaggerated arguments? No difference at all.

 

I do not know why people open topics about arty instead of posting same old same old to that trash bin of a thread that is there for that discussion but if you pay any attention, people who open those topics seem to vary a lot, unlike few individuals who area almost always defending arties honor in every single thread that has arty mentioned. And if we take a look at the opening post of this thread, it was not just about arty, but general rant about all that is wrong in the game according to that specific individual who wrote the post, yet few trusty arty enthusiast seem to take it as personal attack against them and their beloved class. Go figure.. 



CmdRatScabies #50 Posted 17 July 2018 - 06:42 PM

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View PostElement6_TheSprout, on 17 July 2018 - 12:47 PM, said:

It is very relevant if the idea that most hate something is the reasoning behind a change being warranted. There is nothing wrong with asking for a change based on one's perception of the game in it's current state, but to say that it is warranted because a majority thinks so, when no player can make that claim, then it is wrong. That's all there is to it.

 

Thing here is that those that oppose to SPGs seem to think that a sticky thread that is over 200 pages long is irrelevant because it is all gathered in one place, where it seems that they need daily threads to feel noticed. I mean, WG themselves has created the stick, it's not like they do not know about it.

 

So in essence the ones that feel the need to complain suffer from the "notice me senpai" syndrome and flood the gameplay section because the developer has not listened much to them in 7 years.

 

Widespread complaints about arty prompted WG to change arty at least once so you can't be sure it won't work again.   I think they said they'd bin them altogether if the last fix didn't work.

Mko #51 Posted 17 July 2018 - 06:52 PM

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Arty is possibly even worse now, the stun effect is massively annoying, and the extra splash...

Element6 #52 Posted 17 July 2018 - 07:05 PM

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View Posttruoste, on 17 July 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

What makes you think this is a democracy? What makes you think forums have any relevance at all to WG? What makes you think that even if WG would actually read stuff from forums they could not understand that one persons opinion is that specific persons opinion regardless how they try to reason it? So once again, what difference does it make if someone uses exaggerated arguments? No difference at all.

 

I do not know why people open topics about arty instead of posting same old same old to that trash bin of a thread that is there for that discussion but if you pay any attention, people who open those topics seem to vary a lot, unlike few individuals who area almost always defending arties honor in every single thread that has arty mentioned. And if we take a look at the opening post of this thread, it was not just about arty, but general rant about all that is wrong in the game according to that specific individual who wrote the post, yet few trusty arty enthusiast seem to take it as personal attack against them and their beloved class. Go figure.. 

Democracy? Eh, no, if anything it is a dictatorship. But, it is a dictatorship that tires to adapt to the most common opinion/trend/desires that it's customerbase exhibit, just like with any product on the open market.

 

If you acknowledge that nobody listens, and use that as justification that overexaggregation is ok, then I need to question why on earth you spend time and energy speaking. On the other hand, if someone is actually listening, then your words ring less sincere and to the point if you overexaggregate, so on the off chance that you might possibly be heard, you present your case in a bad manner which in turn makes it less likely to be taken into consideration. So it just appears a little weird that people who complain for 7 years do it in a way that makes it less likely they will be take seriously, which often includes ridiculing the developer.

 

Of course people com and defend a game mechanic they like, it is just the Yin to the Yang of complaining about something, which simply shows the variation in the playerbase. Trouble is, whenever someone opens a complain thread, many of the people who voice opposite opinions are labelled things like knights in shining armor, WG puppets, shills etc. Do you often see complainers actually acknowleding the opinions of the people who are not in opposition? It just appears like pissing in one own pants on a cold winters day to get warm, it will come back to bite you. First someone complains about something, then they ridicule the customers of WG who disagree, then they badmouth WG themselves, and then they wonder why the developer doesn't listen to them.

 

That is why overexxagregation is bad for your case when you argue it, and it just makes it worse that you talk about other customers in derogatory ways on top of that. It's like hitting yourself in the shin with an axe or tripping yourself with a tripwire.

 

For everything issue that one player thinks is wrong you will find at least one who thinks it's all right, and the knowledge who who thinks what in the playerbase is very likely to be much more accurate in WGs statistics and surveys than what comes forward in user created polls and echo chambers.

 

View PostCmdRatScabies, on 17 July 2018 - 06:42 PM, said:

Widespread complaints about arty prompted WG to change arty at least once so you can't be sure it won't work again.   I think they said they'd bin them altogether if the last fix didn't work.

Indeed they did, but can we be sure it was because of complains? People like to repeat that WG are notoriously unrelaible with their claims, so even if they claimed that they changed the class due to complains, is it wise to believe them on that point just because the change was in line with what one wanted? That would be like suddenly viewing WG with rose tinted glasses, wouldn't it? They speak the truth about every aspect where I agree with their actions and lie in all cases that I disagree with them doesn't make much sense.

 

The "fix" is also getting old, so one would have to consider that the class is still here, and what that implies. And they just put the lefH up for sale again after something like 14.000 people voted for it. They could of course remove the entire class in 3 months on the grounds that the "fix" didn't work and shaft all the new lefH owners in the process, I bet that wouldn't create much fallout...

 

One can argue that the "fix" was a rework, and on a techincal detailed level one could argue it was, but it is at the end of the day still an indirect firing support class that can see the entire battlefield, it can still shoot over obstacles, it will still deal damage on almost any hit or close hit, and now it on average affects even more tanks with the tradeoff of less one-shots. In my mind it isn't even worthy of the word rework, to me it was a mid-sized tweak.

 

I just do not get why people are clinging to a thin thread of hope after 7 years when most things point in the direction it will never happen.

 



CmdRatScabies #53 Posted 17 July 2018 - 08:18 PM

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View PostElement6_TheSprout, on 17 July 2018 - 07:05 PM, said:

Indeed they did, but can we be sure it was because of complains? People like to repeat that WG are notoriously unrelaible with their claims, so even if they claimed that they changed the class due to complains, is it wise to believe them on that point just because the change was in line with what one wanted? That would be like suddenly viewing WG with rose tinted glasses, wouldn't it? They speak the truth about every aspect where I agree with their actions and lie in all cases that I disagree with them doesn't make much sense.

 

The "fix" is also getting old, so one would have to consider that the class is still here, and what that implies. And they just put the lefH up for sale again after something like 14.000 people voted for it. They could of course remove the entire class in 3 months on the grounds that the "fix" didn't work and shaft all the new lefH owners in the process, I bet that wouldn't create much fallout...

 

One can argue that the "fix" was a rework, and on a techincal detailed level one could argue it was, but it is at the end of the day still an indirect firing support class that can see the entire battlefield, it can still shoot over obstacles, it will still deal damage on almost any hit or close hit, and now it on average affects even more tanks with the tradeoff of less one-shots. In my mind it isn't even worthy of the word rework, to me it was a mid-sized tweak.

 

I just do not get why people are clinging to a thin thread of hope after 7 years when most things point in the direction it will never happen.

 

 

I'd never assume that WG do anything just because players ask for it (I really wouldn't want them to operate that way) but I think the epic level of arty complaints helped them see that arty was having a detrimental impact.  I doubt they'd remove arty, but perhaps we might get a further restriction to limit their impact on games.

Isharial #54 Posted 18 July 2018 - 12:07 AM

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View PostCmdRatScabies, on 17 July 2018 - 08:18 PM, said:

 

I'd never assume that WG do anything just because players ask for it (I really wouldn't want them to operate that way) but I think the epic level of arty complaints helped them see that arty was having a detrimental impact.  I doubt they'd remove arty, but perhaps we might get a further restriction to limit their impact on games.

 

does it really have That much of an impact? truly? you, me, better players, worse players, all get hit by arty, and we're all still here, that for one suggests that its impact isn't as big as you paint. there are people who are far better than you, who are sole targets of artillery, and you know? they're all still playing :ohmy:

 

but seriously, is it really that much of an issue? id argue its actually worse now than it was... you got hit, they went on reload for the next 40 seconds, and you could still shoot and move around as normal (provided they didn't kill your driver off etc..) now, its get hit, and get wrecked by light because stun on your crew doesn't let your turret turn as it should

hit me, kill me,  tiny 200 damage + 20 sec stun? no, just hit me for 700 and be done with it already, least if I don't die I can still defend myself from others and not be made to use my med kit to remove the stun... (you want a bandage for those shakes? or maybe a plaster? :facepalm: sigh... )



Snaques #55 Posted 18 July 2018 - 01:24 AM

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View PostIsharial, on 18 July 2018 - 12:07 AM, said:

 

does it really have That much of an impact? truly? you, me, better players, worse players, all get hit by arty, and we're all still here, that for one suggests that its impact isn't as big as you paint. there are people who are far better than you, who are sole targets of artillery, and you know? they're all still playing :ohmy:

 

but seriously, is it really that much of an issue? id argue its actually worse now than it was... you got hit, they went on reload for the next 40 seconds, and you could still shoot and move around as normal (provided they didn't kill your driver off etc..) now, its get hit, and get wrecked by light because stun on your crew doesn't let your turret turn as it should

hit me, kill me,  tiny 200 damage + 20 sec stun? no, just hit me for 700 and be done with it already, least if I don't die I can still defend myself from others and not be made to use my med kit to remove the stun... (you want a bandage for those shakes? or maybe a plaster? :facepalm: sigh... )

 

I'm not really that worried about their direct impact on the result in the sense that they would be OP as they surely are not (excl. the Leffe).

 

However, they do have a huge impact on how the battles play out especially when you have 2-3 arties on a team. That makes most players more passive, makes the gameplay less exciting and (imho) increases the amount of draws. This is a substantial impact that you can't see from the tank class stats.

 

On top of that you have all the frustration they cause and while it may not make people stop playing the game altogether, it shows in these forum threads, toxic in-game chats and people yoloing just to get to the next one.



Aznarb #56 Posted 18 July 2018 - 02:51 AM

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Map are the worst thing in this game.

As a LT player I'm useless in almost all of them, that so stupid..

I can't flank, and no position/utility to spot.

We've what ? 3 map where spot is usefull ?

 

Add the new super-heavy meta with 0 real WS and there we go, 100% useless LT.

You want to do something ? Play like TD with full gold. Yeah such fun...

Update after update they keep killing the game themself, so pathetic..



truoste #57 Posted 18 July 2018 - 09:37 AM

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View PostElement6_TheSprout, on 17 July 2018 - 06:05 PM, said:

Democracy? Eh, no, if anything it is a dictatorship. But, it is a dictatorship that tires to adapt to the most common opinion/trend/desires that it's customerbase exhibit, just like with any product on the open market.

 

If you acknowledge that nobody listens, and use that as justification that overexaggregation is ok, then I need to question why on earth you spend time and energy speaking. On the other hand, if someone is actually listening, then your words ring less sincere and to the point if you overexaggregate, so on the off chance that you might possibly be heard, you present your case in a bad manner which in turn makes it less likely to be taken into consideration. So it just appears a little weird that people who complain for 7 years do it in a way that makes it less likely they will be take seriously, which often includes ridiculing the developer.

 

Of course people com and defend a game mechanic they like, it is just the Yin to the Yang of complaining about something, which simply shows the variation in the playerbase. Trouble is, whenever someone opens a complain thread, many of the people who voice opposite opinions are labelled things like knights in shining armor, WG puppets, shills etc. Do you often see complainers actually acknowleding the opinions of the people who are not in opposition? It just appears like pissing in one own pants on a cold winters day to get warm, it will come back to bite you. First someone complains about something, then they ridicule the customers of WG who disagree, then they badmouth WG themselves, and then they wonder why the developer doesn't listen to them.

 

That is why overexxagregation is bad for your case when you argue it, and it just makes it worse that you talk about other customers in derogatory ways on top of that. It's like hitting yourself in the shin with an axe or tripping yourself with a tripwire.

 

For everything issue that one player thinks is wrong you will find at least one who thinks it's all right, and the knowledge who who thinks what in the playerbase is very likely to be much more accurate in WGs statistics and surveys than what comes forward in user created polls and echo chambers.

 

 

Feedback is feedback no matter how rude or apalling it may be. It really should not matter what phrasing they use unless WG is copypasting that stuff directly to developers. Poorly thought of and overexaggareted feedback may not contain much reasoning or sense but it is still feedback from that customer and all that WG can pick up from that is that the customer is not happy with content of the feedback, not much more. If however the feedback is well written and thought of, they can perhaps use more of that. If WG actually uses this forum to gather feedback and dismisses poorly written arguments completely, it is them who is pissing in their pants. Many companies struggle to get feedback, here WG gets it for free, should they choose to use it. 

 

I do not know why others write to these forums, for me it used to be channel of venting my frustration, nothing more. Nowadays it is just medium to get information of something actually changes and should I come start playing again or not. 


Edited by truoste, 18 July 2018 - 09:40 AM.


Element6 #58 Posted 18 July 2018 - 10:26 AM

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View Posttruoste, on 18 July 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

Feedback is feedback no matter how rude or apalling it may be. It really should not matter what phrasing they use unless WG is copypasting that stuff directly to developers. Poorly thought of and overexaggareted feedback may not contain much reasoning or sense but it is still feedback from that customer and all that WG can pick up from that is that the customer is not happy with content of the feedback, not much more. If however the feedback is well written and thought of, they can perhaps use more of that. If WG actually uses this forum to gather feedback and dismisses poorly written arguments completely, it is them who is pissing in their pants. Many companies struggle to get feedback, here WG gets it for free, should they choose to use it. 

 

I do not know why others write to these forums, for me it used to be channel of venting my frustration, nothing more. Nowadays it is just medium to get information of something actually changes and should I come start playing again or not. 

True, feedback is feedback even if it is as simple as "I hate the game". My point is that a lot of the feeback drowns out in the very apparent resentment people feel towards other players that are legitimately just playing the game and it's content. Sometimes you get the feeling that much of the frustration revolves around the idea that lesser skilled players should not be able to damage high skilled players, while at the same time high skilled players want to retain the ability to steamroll the lesser skilled and retain them in the game. You can't have fodder in the game that allows you to shine and expect them to stay around and have fun for prolonged periods of time if they can't be allowed to harm you.

 

When it comes to things like SPGs any feedback will tend to be geared/biased towards the wishes of the one presenting the feedback, and this person have no idea how things will pan out on a large scale. He can very much provide feedback on how he would like things to be, but he can't tell you as a developer how this will impact the game in relation to the entire playerbase, so the value of this feedback, no matter how well articulated it might be, is limited to the individual. To get a better understanding of how this feedback is valuable you will have to run comparisons with other feedback to get a sense of the ratios of agreement, I.E if you have 2000 well articulated feedbacks that agree on an issue they have value on their own, but if they are trumped 1:200 by a different opinion cluster, it won't matter much.

 

And it's here that WGs surveys and in-game statistics on player trends trumps any poll created by players on the forums. You can write a shakespearian feedback but if it doesn't correlate with the statistical findings it will just be seen as a personal opinion of desires that isn't reflected in the masses. And if this feedback also makes derogatory remarks about other customers it is by no means a mystery that it is disregarded.

 

I'd agree that for the most part, the forums serve more as a venting place and source for new info than anything else. 







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