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Winrate and WN8 correlation - and how are the two (not) connected?

win rate wn8

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8126Jakobsson #21 Posted 16 July 2018 - 03:15 PM

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View PostEmeraldweed, on 16 July 2018 - 03:14 PM, said:

 

+ premium tanks. check my stats  on prem tanks i got 1k xp average and on normal 800-900

 

Premium stuff makes you at least 50% better. Fact. 

KAOS8989 #22 Posted 16 July 2018 - 03:16 PM

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View PostBora_BOOM, on 16 July 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

 

I am doing something wrong, and there is plenty of it, I am certain. But the results show "something good is happening".

The two sayings my apply here:

- If it is stupid, but it works, its not stupid

- If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

 

Still searching....

 

 

at least for me I know what I'm doing wrong:

- sometimes I die way to early in game with 0 dmg..

- sometimes I forget to check the map and I find myself 1 vs 3-5 enemy tanks...

- I do not know how to be very aggressive with light tanks and also survive

 :bush::hiding:


Edited by KAOS8989, 16 July 2018 - 03:18 PM.


aleksot #23 Posted 16 July 2018 - 08:26 PM

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XP is totaly dependant on tier you play. The higher level, the more xp. If you play x tier, you will have about 1000 xp average. If same stats for 2 players but 1 has less xp-hw plays lower tier tanks. 

JocMeister #24 Posted 16 July 2018 - 09:15 PM

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WR is highly dependent on the tank you are playing. Some tanks have a higher "carry potential" than others. Generally you could say MTs and LTs are better for WR and their speed gives you a bigger influence on the battle. At least for good players. Tiers also have a big influence on WR. The higher tier you play the harder it is to influence the battle as generally there are better players the higher you go.

 

 



Element6 #25 Posted 16 July 2018 - 09:34 PM

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View Post8126Jakobsson, on 16 July 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

Nope. Premium bonus counts for some reason. :D

That's just lame, renders it totally useless as a comparison tool :sceptic:



TheFalkonett #26 Posted 16 July 2018 - 09:41 PM

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View PostBora_BOOM, on 16 July 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

why is my winrate always above the wn8 that "should follow"?

 

It's not though, is it

Spoiler

 



Bora_BOOM #27 Posted 17 July 2018 - 12:20 AM

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View PostTheFalkonett, on 16 July 2018 - 08:41 PM, said:

 

It's not though, is it

Spoiler

 

 

Dunno to what recents that site refers to, but that is even not that relevant. Yes, maybe "always" wasn't the best word to use. Of course there will be examples that don't exactly fit, but I somehow believe in what I have written. Last session will grately help towards your point though.

I am just opening a topic in general, my attached table was an example of what I have meant. It is completely possible that 1k games I am referring to, and I had that more than once, are only a small sample size and that I was only lucky. 



Pansenmann #28 Posted 17 July 2018 - 01:14 AM

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I try to keep my W/R above 50%

and my K/D ratio above 1:1

 

but I rarely manage to do even that lately...



NUKLEAR_SLUG #29 Posted 17 July 2018 - 02:43 AM

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View PostBora_BOOM, on 16 July 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

What I am trying to figure out, and I don’t manage to do it, is why is my winrate always above the wn8 that "should follow"?

 

A good example of how to win games..

 

https://youtu.be/QeL_mhCwYrU

 

..and this was worth zero in terms of WN8.

 

WN8 only cares about damage, it says nothing about whether you are good at winning games. Pushing the front will get you WN8, but it won't help your WR if you're being capped out. Being the guy that goes back to reset the cap will hurt your WN8 but you're the one that wins the games by doing so.



SuedKAT #30 Posted 17 July 2018 - 03:21 AM

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This is me:

 

My WR recently is quite a bit higher than my WN8 suggests, then again I mainly play tier 6-7 since I enjoy that the most and knowing how to utilize vision in this game is such an advantage (especially at those tiers) that it most likely carry my WR up quite a bit. Heck just poping up with the T29 to get people to shoot my turret almost always grant me 1-3k spotting done. WN8 is far from perfect and sure it's quite accurate to generalize when it comes to WN8 following WR at a set pattern, but that's not always the case. As an example carrying the match in your LT, spotting tons, will in the end most likely grant you the victory, but it will at the same time not grant you much in terms of WN8, saw a video of a guy spotting 11k, he got 148 WN8 for that.



brumbarr #31 Posted 17 July 2018 - 06:10 AM

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View PostBora_BOOM, on 16 July 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

 

I am doing something wrong, and there is plenty of it, I am certain. But the results show "something good is happening".

The two sayings my apply here:

- If it is stupid, but it works, its not stupid

- If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

 

Still searching....

 

If you want to be a good player you need to forget those 2 statements and replace em with this:

-if its stupid and it works, its stil stupid

-if it isnt broken, find a new better way anyway



Bora_BOOM #32 Posted 17 July 2018 - 06:55 AM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 17 July 2018 - 05:10 AM, said:

If you want to be a good player you need to forget those 2 statements and replace em with this:

-if its stupid and it works, its stil stupid

-if it isnt broken, find a new better way anyway

 

Nice one. :great:

All I wanted to say (replying to the comment that I am doing something wrong) is that there is plenty to learn but there's gotta be something good and I still need to pinpoint what is that to make it better. It would be "stupid" not to continue and improve it, compared to say switching to something else like camp to pad your wn8 and "fixing" the playstyle that wasn't broken in the first place...


Edited by Bora_BOOM, 17 July 2018 - 10:52 AM.


JocMeister #33 Posted 17 July 2018 - 07:41 AM

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View PostBora_BOOM, on 17 July 2018 - 06:55 AM, said:

 

Nice one. :great:

All I wanted to say (replying to the comment that I am doing something wrong) is that there is plenty to learn but there's gotta be something good and I still need  pinpoint what is that to make it better. It would be "stupid" not to continue and improve it, compared to say switching to something else like camp to pad your wn8 and "fixing" the playstyle that wasn't broken in the first place...

 

Thing is that you arn´t doing anything wrong and are doing quite well as it is. Just keep on doing what you are doing and you will continue to improve.

 

- One of the most important things to remember is that throwing away HP in the early game will severely limit your options mid/late game. Never trade 1 for 1 early game. Its almost never worth it unless you do it for a very specific purpose like breaking a flank or getting to a great position.

 

- Don´t take chances. Taking a chance means you might throw the game. Don´t do it.

 

- If you are down to 1-shot don´t be afraid to fall back. Getting a few extra shots in later in the game can change the outcome. Number of guns can be very important late game.

 

- The most important player on the team is usually yourself. Don´t give away half your HP to save that 44% Löwe driver. Chances are he will die without doing anything useful anyway. That said there are situations where you should take shots for teammates. 

 

- Don´t get stressed out and rush in because you "need damage". Be patient. Its quite easy to farm a lot of damage in the cleanup.

 

- There are impossible games. Don´t let them get to you. The MM and map pool is what it is and even 3x Superunicums will lose 3 out of 10 games. Just do the best you can in a really bad situation and then move on to the next game.

 

Don´t get too stressed out about improving. You can´t force it. For me it has never been a "slow but steady increase" in stats. It has always happened in "bursts". I was "stuck" around 1600 wn8 for a long time then suddenly was playing around 2200 wn8 from one day to another. Was "stuck" at that for almost a year before suddenly increasing again. One of the most important things I think is being self critical and admit to yourself that you messed up. Most people (including myself) find things to blame like teammates, RNG, luck, whatever. Its always your own fault you died.

 

For me one of the things that really made me a better player was trying to 3-mark tanks. In a way it forces you to improve and constantly play better. Its a really good motivator to try and find every bit of damage/assist in every game even if it looks hopeless. The most notable thing was that it raised my "worst" to a much, much higher level. 1 year ago it wasn´t that uncommon for me to have really bad sessions with lots of 0 damage games. I almost never have really "bad" games now and that alone goes a long way to increasing your overall. So it might not be so much about playing better but more about raising your worst. If you have 10 "purple games" and 10 "red ones" your average won´t be that good. But if you have 10 "purple games" and 10 "blue or green ones" all of the sudden your average looks quite nice. 

 

 

.


Edited by JocMeister, 17 July 2018 - 08:28 AM.


UrQuan #34 Posted 17 July 2018 - 08:14 AM

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Generally, WN8 & WR are loosely correlated. Higher WR usually leads to higher WN8. However, individual playstyle matters in how it correlates. WN8 heavily favours pure damage, so if you win matches alot by metrics that don't include damage, your WN8 will lag behind the WR.

On the other hand, if you focus purely on damage, your WR can lag behind on the WN8 ratings, because at times your damage simply did not contribute (because you mainly dealt damage after your flank fell/the game was lost).

 

For me, the WN8 usually lagged behind on my WR, as I often made heavy use of my armor to gain early game advantage for my team (blocking off lanes/ forcing early flank breakthroughs) at the cost of dishing out damage.

 

For the rest, JocMeister has said it all.

Don't stress about it too much. You can be a good player without getting very high WN8. I'm a good example of it. I always have struggled to do alot of damage with my tanks, yet winning with them goes easier for me.



Bora_BOOM #35 Posted 17 July 2018 - 10:15 AM

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I think that winning games without doing significant amounts of damage makes your battle rely heavily on what your team will do. If your effort is not resulting with your team getting the advantage out of it - its useless, whereas doing a certain amount of "right damage" makes it useful every time I believe.

 

The second problem is that having a play-style not relying on dmg (but on positioning, spotting, holding, etc) can lead you to choose the wrong tactics/play for whatever reason and you end up wasting your time. That being said, when your session is bad and you make lots of bad choices (cause it’s simply not your day), its not only the wn8 that is falling. I think that tactics is more prone to fail when its "not your day", whether just following the bunch, being there, sharing HP and shoot whatever comes your way - is not requiring that much of a brains effort - and yet will contribute.

 

What I mean to say is that its easier to be consistent doing a certain amount of damage (like your average per battle however good or bad it is) than it is to always make the right tactical calls.

 

Best example for this would be my last night session (which was baaad). Playing 13-57 on Live Oaks when I did everything right at the beginning and then decided to follow our e25 mid game. I had like 900 dmg done and was full health. One shot from camping WT and a heavy that should not be there sent me to only observe what will happen. We lost and I was blaming myself for doing the stupid move and leaving my 2 artas and 2 tds without eyes... And mind you, I told to my platoon mate that i will try to hold it back that game and survive to help later. So yeah, bad call, tactics failed, wn8 was bananas and it was a loss.

Couple of games later I carried a game on Prokhorovka in 430. I did some 2k dmg and 1.5k spotting in the map middle (at the battle  beginning) but what won us the game was the late tactics how to fight 2 vs 4 and win by deciding to cap with my 7 hp ally Skorp-g in last 2 minutes (not to get clipped by oneshot t50 skoda that was only alive and who knows where - although we knew where he might come from so shooting would reveal his position) . Despite doing 4k dmg and 2k spotting (which is always nice, but being top tier and utilizing the middle ridge is not that hard) it was the late calls that led to a win that otherwise would be a loss or at best a draw.

Also, we won (top tier) in a Tiger I and an IS vs. 3 On-is by letting them freely take the heavy hills on Westfield, going in the middle and wait for them to push out on the open. Facing them at their path (which is the usual heavy tactic for that map) in a close combat would be a very bad idea. We did what we did, 2k dmg each, but our team got their share on those lumbering behemoths. Our (camping) TD did 8 kills, 2 on artas that I have spotted in the IS at the battle end. We fed him good.

 

Bottom line, I believe that insufficient knowledge/experience and relying on tactics to win the game makes the results (and especially wn8) being inconsistent, while always doing (your) average amount of damage following others (and not caring about the battle flow much) makes your wn8 consistent but winning games is far less in your control.


Edited by Bora_BOOM, 17 July 2018 - 11:14 AM.


clixor #36 Posted 17 July 2018 - 01:26 PM

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View PostUrQuan, on 17 July 2018 - 08:14 AM, said:

Generally, WN8 & WR are loosely correlated. Higher WR usually leads to higher WN8.

 

For me it's more the opposite. A constant higher WN8 will lead to higher WR. For instance, and i monitor my sessions after each game, it's more or less that i need like 3k WN8 to have something of a 60%+ WR. However, a lower WR could mean also higher WN8, the logic probably being that if you survive longer than the rest of your team, you have the potential to do more dmg which results in higher WN8. In most cases it's a very high dmg game though which influences session stats in those cases.

 

 



Bora_BOOM #37 Posted 17 July 2018 - 01:59 PM

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Wen you have both wr and wn8 "in pair" at 55%+ wr you are certainly doing it right. In my case (if we exclude the possibility of being just lucky) I am clearly missing doing consistent damage. I am sure that finding the way to increase the avg damage (read wn8) while keeping the play as it (or do some smaller adjustments) - would also result pushing the wr up as a consequence.

 

It is hard to expect that anyone will post something like "I did this and that and my wn8 went sky-high" and that by applying a single thing you can find a solution... Sure, playing a high wn8 tanks and pad the stat, sealclub in something OP at t4, shoot only premium ammo, use prem. consumables, do some hard camping, or for instance stupid things like yoloing and emptying the whole t71 clip and then die, are arguably "the ways" to boost your wn8. But none of those IMO contribute to learn the game properly and fine-tune your tactics...

 

I was hoping to get some general advice - and there has been some. Nice. 


Edited by Bora_BOOM, 17 July 2018 - 02:03 PM.


Cuck0osNest #38 Posted 17 July 2018 - 02:12 PM

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Did anyone mention RR already?

Mannanan #39 Posted 17 July 2018 - 03:47 PM

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I have found out that not all damage I do is important simply because team would do it anyway. It is fine to do such damage as far as I don't lose hitpoints in the process. Otherwise it is better to leave damage to someone else (at the expense of wn8) who is better positioned or has more hitpoints because many times it is still unclear how the battle will evolve. Sometimes I either serve as a bait. Many players try to steal damage at all costs and it loses games - typically they push under conditions which don't favor them. For consistent results it is the best being able to do damage myself from early to mid to end game, the tricky part is not to lose hitpoints and stay alive till endgame. Giving team opportunities to do damage is tricky because team doesn't have to actually make it or it does but get the same or more damage in the process. Playing for WR is mix of various tactical decisions and one must evolve a sense for it what and when it is worth it. As well there are tanks which are good to trade hitpoints for important damage while others can't afford it and playstyle for WR further differs with them. Rules of thumbs, 1 vs 1 is always 50:50 at best, stay alive!, sacrifice only for very good reason (e.g. when your wife says it is enough for today:) ) or when it really doesn't matter.

aleksot #40 Posted 20 July 2018 - 05:37 AM

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yesterday i joined team with a player with 36% win rate... i mean, hows that posible? i checked his tanks, some had 25, some 33, some 40 win rate, with 20, 100 games. I thougt 44% was the worst posible?





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