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scouting and light tanks

scout light tanks scouting passive scouting active scouting

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Zinomov #1 Posted 21 July 2018 - 01:46 PM

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i'd like to clarify that scouting nowadays is not like it used to be.


wargaming has redesigned the maps in a way that active scouting is prevalent, and thus this is why our light tanks have been balanced the way they are now.


however i feel that chances for passive scouting are extremely reduced, and that is emphasized by the fact that we also lack a lot of maps in the rotation; in fact i'd like to remind that we have lost over a dozen of maps in the past couple of years, this is disastrous.

the reason why i say that is because some personal missions rely solely on passive scouting, and accomplishing those missions have became harder.

even if we put the personal missions aside, most of us can agree that passive scouting is not something easy to achieve in our times


Edited by Zinomov, 21 July 2018 - 01:48 PM.


Enforcer1975 #2 Posted 21 July 2018 - 01:58 PM

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The majority of bad scouting i see is because they...

  • drive 20m to the next bush from where they spawned and call it spotting for the team
  • drive into the enemy tanks ( yolo )
  • spot in corridors instead of more open area ( f.e. spotting valley on Lakeville........why would you need a spotter there? )
  • brawl with heavies at the heavy spot ( in town ) instead of using their mobility dashing through the streets to confuse the enemy and try to attack from different directions.
  • players are narrowminded
  • no map knowledge
  • driving a LT because you can get good stats in them....not while you are doing poorly in them though
  • no idea how camo mechanics work

You can still passive spot on many maps. It's sometimes more productive than running around like a headless chicken trying to spot the enemy and evading shots at the same time. Many players driving LTs have such bad crews and probably even the wrong equipment in them ( f.e. binocs and camonet but keep running around in an open field ) i often outspot higher tier LTs. 


Edited by Enforcer1975, 21 July 2018 - 02:00 PM.


Mr_Burrows #3 Posted 21 July 2018 - 02:04 PM

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Passive scouting is mostly useless nowadays since the ones you spot for cannot hit shite, nor bother even shooting. Had an interesting game at Siegfried Line this morning, where i spotted 10 tanks in the field. It gave me a whopping 900 spotting dmg. Imagine that, it is 90 dmg per tank. I am not impressed. 

Hechaton #4 Posted 21 July 2018 - 02:34 PM

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"I feel the the chances for passive scouting are extremely reduced"
It's not just a feeling. Out from my experience, the light tanks an arty are the most useless classes in the game right now. Thy don't have a distinct role, and their impact of the outcome of the game is questionably low.
The only situation they are useful is when they are top tier, facing opponents two tiers below, read: damage. As for passive scouting, there are only a few maps left when this can be performed with any meaningful effect.
I support the earlier statement, the accuracy in this game is terrible. It's most likely you'll miss the WHOLE target at long range. I don't know if it's just a feeling, but I've got an impression the dispersion worsen if your tank is inclined in an angle.

Enforcer1975 #5 Posted 21 July 2018 - 05:58 PM

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View PostMr_Burrows, on 21 July 2018 - 02:04 PM, said:

Passive scouting is mostly useless nowadays since the ones you spot for cannot hit shite, nor bother even shooting. Had an interesting game at Siegfried Line this morning, where i spotted 10 tanks in the field. It gave me a whopping 900 spotting dmg. Imagine that, it is 90 dmg per tank. I am not impressed. 

 

Siegfried Line is the worst map since everybody and his dog tries to rush into safety between the houses. 

Malinovka, Prokhorovka and maybe Karelia are one of the few where it's possible to active and passive scout. 


Edited by Enforcer1975, 21 July 2018 - 05:58 PM.


RaxipIx #6 Posted 21 July 2018 - 06:20 PM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 21 July 2018 - 05:58 PM, said:

 

Siegfried Line is the worst map since everybody and his dog tries to rush into safety between the houses. 

Malinovka, Prokhorovka and maybe Karelia are one of the few where it's possible to active and passive scout. 

 

Don't forget Redshire, i finished 3 of the LT-15 missions on that map^^

Zinomov #7 Posted 21 July 2018 - 06:45 PM

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redshire works best in the north spawn, the south spawn is useless

Gremlin182 #8 Posted 21 July 2018 - 06:51 PM

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I still enjoy light tank play active and passive scouting and since you can never tell what map you will be on I play both ways.

 

Lights that are fully capable of dealing with almost any 1 on 1 situation mostly get an active scout setup.

If its a weaker tank but has good camo values I set it up for both active and passive.

Some maps you get to use the binoculars or optics other times not.



Tramp_In_Armour #9 Posted 21 July 2018 - 09:19 PM

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View PostHechaton, on 21 July 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

Thy don't have a distinct role, and their impact of the outcome of the game is questionably low.
 

 

I don't know how it is in the higher tiers (maybe it's really bad for lights there), but in mid tiers I find good spotting can make a game. Conversely, bad spotting (or none) can really hamper a team. I get this when I'm in a medium: the light bulb goes off before I even reach the middle of the map, and I know an enemy scout has eyes-on, but I can't see them. Can render a large swathe of map off-limits to our team if we don't have our own scout counter-spotting, finding the enemy scout or hampering the movement of the enemy in return. Scouts who hang back, yolo and die, or simply trail behind a lemming train are the worst for this. I've seen good enemy scouting make such a difference when our own team is blind. And as a scout, I felt I've made a difference many times when the boot's on the other foot, finding a good passive spotting location and not even adding my gun to the game until near the end. In spite of being a gun down - relatively speaking - the team often benefits. And yeah, some games you spot in vain, but on the whole I feel I can influence a game more than when I'm in a TD, for instance, and I can do it regardless of whether I'm top or bottom tier.

 

As well as the maps mentioned above (and I have found a reasonable spotting location for Redshire south too), Lakeville benefits from good scouting (I say this as a noob, so feel free to correct me). The central road is crucial. You get early spots on tanks travelling to the city, but also within the city when they cross streets (I have been caught out like this in a heavy, travelling through the town and getting hit in the flank from unseen scouts and TDs on the centre road, when we haven't got our own scouts there). If the centre is contested, and I'm there in a light doing the contesting, I find it gets hairy, but I've also discovered great passive spots on the town side of the lake that allows me to spot pesky TDs on the centre road and get them nullified.

 

Scouting is crucial in Erlenberg. The wide open spaces make it heaven for TDs, and a team that doesn't have decent scouts spotting them is often stuck hugging the trees on one side of the map or trying their luck in the city. Again, I've found this annoying when I'm in a medium and we've got the centre hill or castle, but no scouts to help us proceed further.

 

Steppes is another one where early spotting can dominate the centre, eliminate the TDs and gain your own team more freedom of movement.

 

Live Oaks - the centre again. Loads of bushes and opportunities to spot heavies going to the town - better if you've got arty. Spotting the TDs on one of the two hills mid-game can enable your team to actually break out of the city if they win it. Otherwise they're stuck.

 

Province - any tank with speed can get to the other side and secure the spotting zones, but only a scout can do it and safely passive spot without getting killed or forced back into cover.

 

Westfield - south and centre valley benefit hugely from good scouting.

 

All the above examples can be murder for your team if the enemy scouts get to these locations and your own scouts go AWOL. Mediums and heavies that could do some good often get whacked from unseen enemies and forced to play cautious, ceding the map to the enemy. I find those kinds of games end very quickly.



Zinomov #10 Posted 22 July 2018 - 12:07 PM

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the probleme is that maps don't offer a chance for lights to spot properly
we lost too many key bushes and spots for passive scouting, forcing us into agressive spotting which is absolutely useless when you have a team that can't even understand english -_-

Brodie_ #11 Posted 22 July 2018 - 06:34 PM

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Light tanks, like the rest of the game have been Shxt since 9.18!

They had a manager, that decided to mix the game up...

After they realised he had fxcked everything up!

They fired the buffoon!

 

The damage was done tho...

They introduced the defender...

Which fuxked tier 8 skirmish...

 

They changed premiums into OP game wreckers...

All to make a fast buck!

 

They spent so much time getting thing right!

Then they stupidly let a donkey destroy things for everyone!

 

They cannot admit their mistakes...

Therefore we all have to live with this fuxked up mess...

 

Not that the few that make the decisions care...

They are to busy spending the fortune they have made...



Enforcer1975 #12 Posted 22 July 2018 - 06:54 PM

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Just now Paris an ELC AMX and a T21 with bots in them......T21 goes south to brawl with the heavies because reasons and the ELC had to shoot in his bush up north and get smacked by arty.....then ran away into town dragging his balls behind him....

Never heard of passive scouting.........never learned how to use a LT...good times when you have to rely on those bobs while the enemy has spotters who know what they are doing. 



Beoger #13 Posted 25 July 2018 - 01:08 PM

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Passive scouting means that you take your LT and rush into a forward position with good cover, most of the time some vegetation. Then you sit there and spot the enemy as they drive into view. It's called passive scouting because you cannot move or shoot or you will be spotted in turn. Works well in the mid-tiers - I once had a KV-1 or KV-2 drive by my hidden AMX ELC bis at a distance where I felt I could have touched it with my cannon if I had turned it sideways. In reality it was probably just shy of the 50m proximity spotting distance, but it was definitely too close for comfort. 

 

If you get into a good position you can rack up quite significant amounts of spotting assist damage in the first few minutes of the game if your arty and TDs do their job. But time is of the essence, that's why I hate nothing more than other tanks blocking your way or even ramming you in the first few seconds after the match starts when you need to scramble to your spotting position. If there is a significant delay, you can forget about reaching a good positon, because you will most likely get counter spotted by an enemy LT already in position on his side of the map.

 

But if you are successful, it really helps the team get first shots/kills. After the dust has settled and the numbers of the enemy have been reduced you can start to relocate and/or snipe and/or flank - in short act as a support.


Edited by Beoger, 25 July 2018 - 01:14 PM.





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