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Redshire Unbalanced?


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Agera1993 #1 Posted 24 July 2018 - 02:57 PM

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Everytime I spawn north on Redshire and move towards the Zeplin in my heavy, there's a gap between two small hills (as shown in pic) where the southern-spawned enemy can absolutely obliterate tanks that are busy crossing. From what I've experienced, this terrain design gives the southern spawn a huge advantage which north does not have. Even if the northern tanks decided to try move into the white area I've indicated on minimap to setup a similar crossfire, that area doesn't have nearly the same amount of bushes for camo. Is it just me or are there others that agree this map is somewhat unbalanced?

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Cobra6 #2 Posted 24 July 2018 - 03:00 PM

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What do you mean? Just shoot back. 

 

All you need is one scout with brains to occupy a hedge in the middle (which most do) and that position on the ridge becomes very risky for the enemy to use.

 

To be honest, Redshire is one of those maps that does not have any huge advantageous spots anymore for either side, it's pretty equal. Sure the good spots are not all in the same area of the map but they are still there.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 24 July 2018 - 03:02 PM.


Sfinski #3 Posted 24 July 2018 - 03:03 PM

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Redshire is the best map in the game, something for every tank and balanced sides. 

HaZardeur #4 Posted 24 July 2018 - 03:11 PM

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This fits perfectly...

 

 



Simeon85 #5 Posted 24 July 2018 - 03:12 PM

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Yeh that spot is unbalanced, it can often decide the heavy brawl as the heavies there either lose lots of HP on the way or have to fall back into a cross fire. 

 

It's not like the Castle or middle is favourable to south team either. South team's best positions probably lie behind their base. 



Enforcer1975 #6 Posted 24 July 2018 - 03:34 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 24 July 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

What do you mean? Just shoot back. 

Much LOL OP and this ^

When the enemy has line of fire so have you.

It often boils down to how good a LT player is. You have a good one the enemy team can lose half their tanks before realizing they were caught with their pants down...simple really. If you LT can't do similar then it's not the map's fault. 


Edited by Enforcer1975, 24 July 2018 - 03:37 PM.


Steve8066 #7 Posted 24 July 2018 - 03:35 PM

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View PostSfinski, on 24 July 2018 - 03:03 PM, said:

Redshire is the best map in the game, something for every tank and balanced sides. 

 

i actually hate it, no real reason tho.

LordMuffin #8 Posted 24 July 2018 - 03:40 PM

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View PostAgera1993, on 24 July 2018 - 02:57 PM, said:

Everytime I spawn north on Redshire and move towards the Zeplin in my heavy, there's a gap between two small hills (as shown in pic) where the southern-spawned enemy can absolutely obliterate tanks that are busy crossing. From what I've experienced, this terrain design gives the southern spawn a huge advantage which north does not have. Even if the northern tanks decided to try move into the white area I've indicated on minimap to setup a similar crossfire, that area doesn't have nearly the same amount of bushes for camo. Is it just me or are there others that agree this map is somewhat unbalanced?

If you suspect you will get spotted and what in that area, just don't go there. Go somewhere else, like other side of map.

 

Just because an area is known as the 'heavy tank area' it doesn't mean you have to go there as a heavy tank.



Agera1993 #9 Posted 24 July 2018 - 04:05 PM

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Okay just me then it seems. 

ThinGun #10 Posted 24 July 2018 - 05:18 PM

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Oh noes.  Someone has identified an 'fault' in a map whereby the enemy can shoot at them.  I think heads should roll for this.

Bordhaw #11 Posted 24 July 2018 - 06:31 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 24 July 2018 - 02:40 PM, said:

If you suspect you will get spotted and what in that area, just don't go there. Go somewhere else, like other side of map.

 

Just because an area is known as the 'heavy tank area' it doesn't mean you have to go there as a heavy tank.

 

I did that for a change and got constant abuse as the team disintegrated all blaming me lol 

LordMuffin #12 Posted 24 July 2018 - 06:32 PM

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View PostBordhaw, on 24 July 2018 - 06:31 PM, said:

 

I did that for a change and got constant abuse as the team disintegrated all blaming me lol 

Then you got a bad team.



Tramp_In_Armour #13 Posted 24 July 2018 - 06:33 PM

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I enjoy scouting the map from both sides. As a north scout, however, I have the advantage of a great location near the white ridge to passive spot, and I always light up heavies crossing from the south, both to the central hill and to the fallen zeppelin. From the south, the passive spotting bush is closer to the central hill, so even with binocs, I rarely get to catch north heavies crossing to the zeppelin until they are almost in cover. To spot that area you describe, a south scout has to take a risk with active spotting (with everybody able to shoot it from all sides). If the northern scout isn't doing their job, however, then a southern scout can get away with a lot more while remaining unseen.

 

I've also found, as a TD or supporting medium, that the zeppelin area is easier to support from the north side if you drop down to B0 (the ridge covers you from shots from the centre), compared to the south side, though if things don't go well for your heavies, it can be harder to run away from.

 

I would say it's balanced. This map gives you lots of options.



Flid_Merchant #14 Posted 24 July 2018 - 06:38 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 24 July 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

If you suspect you will get spotted and what in that area, just don't go there. Go somewhere else, like other side of map.

 

Just because an area is known as the 'heavy tank area' it doesn't mean you have to go there as a heavy tank.

 

Cue map pinging from people who can't think any further than tank classes.

Balc0ra #15 Posted 24 July 2018 - 06:43 PM

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If your scouts are any good. Your hill campers can do the same to their HT's once they get out of town before the HT line. And that's more exposed then your short trip. Tho the window for it is more narrow to get the early spots if their HT's are more agile. But plenty of time if they got mostly slow super heavies. 

 

Tbh, Redshire is one of the more balanced maps around. And one I like on almost any class. 


Edited by Balc0ra, 24 July 2018 - 06:44 PM.


marepbc #16 Posted 25 July 2018 - 03:59 AM

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View PostAgera1993, on 24 July 2018 - 02:57 PM, said:

Everytime I spawn north on Redshire and move towards the Zeplin in my heavy, there's a gap between two small hills (as shown in pic) where the southern-spawned enemy can absolutely obliterate tanks that are busy crossing. From what I've experienced, this terrain design gives the southern spawn a huge advantage which north does not have. Even if the northern tanks decided to try move into the white area I've indicated on minimap to setup a similar crossfire, that area doesn't have nearly the same amount of bushes for camo. Is it just me or are there others that agree this map is somewhat unbalanced?

 

Map is unbalanced, yes.

When you get north spawn and you are in heavy tank, than better go castle and try to take map control there. If you try to get to zeppelin you will probably get spotted, sniped and arty trashed.

But if you get south spawn in heavy, than always go to zeppelin.

 



XxKuzkina_MatxX #17 Posted 25 July 2018 - 04:38 AM

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The amount of BS in this thread so far!!!

 

@OP yes it's unbalanced and it isn't just you.

 

So you shoot back right? What an absolutely dumb thing to say considering the amount of battles you played and the supposedly good stats you have! Now riddle me this, how can you shoot back at a TD or a med, completely hidden with an option to double bush at G4/G5???

 

What are the chances that your scout can spot those tanks at G4/G5? One solution is to yolo on top of the hill very near to that nest which is very stupid and suicidal AND won't prevent them from shooting after that scout is dead. The other chance is if they are careless in their crossing from the base and didn't go around the hill base, if they go straight forward they will get spotted from the bush at D6/D7.

 

And not only that the south spawn can shoot and decimate the heavies while crossing to their flank, the fun is not over! Your scout can go up at the D7/C8 area and spot their TDs as well which can be shot from the same nest at G4/G5.

 

Now let's move on to the castle area, say you are a smart heavy that wont go through that lethal crossing. You can go to the castle which alone controls almost absolutely nothing of the map. For the middle ridge to work you need the castle and for that to work, you need to clear the C**** at K2/K3 which is like driving straight down the hill on Malinovka, a death sentence!

 

Finally, let's assume you'll go to the castle and clear that. Also let's assume you'll clear the middle ridge and everything will be just fine. How do you do that in a big slow heavy? I am not talking about a nimble heavies like the IS3, the T10 or something comparable i am talking about the fat ones like the VK100, the Mauschen or the Japs! You'll take damage and arty fire just crossing from your spawn to the castle area!



LordMuffin #18 Posted 25 July 2018 - 04:47 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 25 July 2018 - 04:38 AM, said:

The amount of BS in this thread so far!!!

 

@OP yes it's unbalanced and it isn't just you.

 

So you shoot back right? What an absolutely dumb thing to say considering the amount of battles you played and the supposedly good stats you have! Now riddle me this, how can you shoot back at a TD or a med, completely hidden with an option to double bush at G4/G5???

 

What are the chances that your scout can spot those tanks at G4/G5? One solution is to yolo on top of the hill very near to that nest which is very stupid and suicidal AND won't prevent them from shooting after that scout is dead. The other chance is if they are careless in their crossing from the base and didn't go around the hill base, if they go straight forward they will get spotted from the bush at D6/D7.

 

And not only that the south spawn can shoot and decimate the heavies while crossing to their flank, the fun is not over! Your scout can go up at the D7/C8 area and spot their TDs as well which can be shot from the same nest at G4/G5.

 

Now let's move on to the castle area, say you are a smart heavy that wont go through that lethal crossing. You can go to the castle which alone controls almost absolutely nothing of the map. For the middle ridge to work you need the castle and for that to work, you need to clear the C**** at K2/K3 which is like driving straight down the hill on Malinovka, a death sentence!

 

Finally, let's assume you'll go to the castle and clear that. Also let's assume you'll clear the middle ridge and everything will be just fine. How do you do that in a big slow heavy? I am not talking about a nimble heavies like the IS3, the T10 or something comparable i am talking about the fat ones like the VK100, the Mauschen or the Japs! You'll take damage and arty fire just crossing from your spawn to the castle area!

How?

Git gud.

 

Redshire is one of the few maps where you can't drive around like an idiot and still do OK in a VK100P or a Jap heavy or similar.

The map requires some team work, some setup of crossfire. Some small amount of coordination etc.

 

And castle is arty safe, and you can get there safely. Though in a VK100P I would go to the ridges instead. Peek over when my team mates is at the Castle and spot those TDs.

Maybe then go down to the small Valley below the bridge which let's you spot even more TD campers, if your castle guy have managed to actually move into castle.

And then win from that.

 

Super heavies don't dominate that map, like they do on so many other maps, which is a good feature. It is one of the few maps where non super heavy tanks are on par with super heavies.

 

Agera1993 is an average player, just like you.

 

As a description I heard of the xvm colours.

 

Green is like the green on a traffic light, they can go forward without creating havoc.

Yellow is like yellow on traffic light, can go forward, but will sometimes create havoc.

Red can go forward but will most certainly create havoc.


Edited by LordMuffin, 25 July 2018 - 04:51 AM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #19 Posted 25 July 2018 - 04:54 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 25 July 2018 - 05:47 AM, said:

Redshire is one of the few maps where you can't drive around like an idiot and still do OK in a VK100P or a Jap heavy or similar.

The map requires some team work, some setup of crossfire. Some small amount of coordination etc.

 

Some trash right there, can't really see anything useful. If one side can do that while the other can't then the map is unbalanced which is the topic here.

 

And castle is arty safe, and you can get there safely. Though in a VK100P I would go to the ridges instead. Peek over when my team mates is at the Castle and spot those TDs.

Maybe then go down to the small Valley below the bridge which let's you spot even more TD campers, if your castle guy have managed to actually move into castle.

And then win from that.

 

Again more rubbish, you can't spot TDs at K2/K3 from the castle. and the more you go forward the deeper you are in a cross fire.

 

Super heavies don't dominate that map, like they do on so many other maps, which is a good feature. It is one of the few maps where non super heavy tanks are on par with super heavies.

 

Yeah but they do just from a different spawn!!!

 



LordMuffin #20 Posted 25 July 2018 - 05:45 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 25 July 2018 - 04:54 AM, said:

 

Super heavies from South can be handled rather easily later. Say you let them win that corner,  but instead take control over castle and the whole ridge. Then you are in control over most of the map. The super heavies are stuck and can't move out anymore.

 

In general, I would say north is the advantage us side due to having a small advantage over the castle/mid ridge area.

It has a deficit of heavy brawling corner, so just don't go there.

Play to your advantages and not the enemies advantages.

 

The south's best position is along the redline behind their base, in order to cover castle/mid ridge section.






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