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3-5-7 is removing skill from games

matchmaking 3-5-7

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Poll: 3-5-7 is removing skill from games (62 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Do you like a 2 tier difference in games?

  1. yes (20 votes [32.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.26%

  2. no (37 votes [59.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 59.68%

  3. don't really care (5 votes [8.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.06%

Would you like there to any be a maximum of 1 tier difference in games?

  1. yes (37 votes [59.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 59.68%

  2. no (18 votes [29.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.03%

  3. don't care (7 votes [11.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.29%

Vote Hide poll

killbybean #1 Posted 24 July 2018 - 06:17 PM

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This is my first post on the wot forum. sorry if it's bad

 

The 3-5-7 matchmaker is causing so many problems in WoT

I've known for a while but after this game I had in my P26/40 I couldn't ignore it anymore.

 BattleResultsScreen.PNGTeamResults.PNG

As you can see I got 3 of the 7 kills on my team and the other tier 4, together we got 5 out of the 7 kills on our team (71%) of our teams kills

Whereas, on their team their tier 6's got 11 out of the 15 kills that they got (73%) and in total only 1 tier 4 on the enemy team got a kill.

This is not fun for anyone and wargaming need to fix this, instead of removing pref tanks they should make every tank a pref tank. That would make all games more fun and more competitive.

This was a point that was brought up in one of sirfoch's videos (link:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRNNPPXsmpQ) where he was on Lakeville in a tier 6 as top tier and he just destroyed everyone. it's not fun for anyone. It just allows people to club easier which is not fun for the lower tiers. its also horrible in tier 10 to tier 8. 3-5-7.

I for one wouldn't mind the slightly longer queue times for a no more that 1 tier difference mm, it would also stop a lot of complaints by the community

 

Sorry for the aweful wording and I hope a member of wargaming sees this and doesn't ignore it. You want proof that I'm right about people hating 3-5-7 send out a poll to the community for a more rounded vote than this poll.


Edited by killbybean, 24 July 2018 - 06:18 PM.


Mr_Missclick #2 Posted 24 July 2018 - 06:20 PM

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Global +-1 MM is the only solution for PMM tanks and unbalanced tanks which would still need some rebalance in certain ways.

brisha #3 Posted 24 July 2018 - 06:26 PM

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The team with the best top tiers in the 3-5-7 usually dominate the game. It's the huge problem that has made me stop playing. It's very hard to carry a game now, even in a good toon, when you play mostly bottom tier and when your top tiers as  bad as bots it's almost impossible to win.

 

Sadly in my experience with this MM I see it as the best top tiers wins.



Hellraiser0201 #4 Posted 24 July 2018 - 07:20 PM

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Current MM 3-5-7 adds too much "RNG" to your win/lose chances, as you, playing mostly as bottom tier (unless you play only t9 and 10), have too little influence in your games overall, and too much depend on the skill of your top tiers...

This template made me stop playing WOT, it adds too much frustration at least for me.

Me, and many other players i talked to, want a fair playground, where skill is the most important factor in battles, at least in most of them, where you have chances to turn the tides of battle more often than not. That makes games interesting.

In the current game state, games end way too fast (3-4mins) teams are very unbalanced, and the team who spams more premium ammo and has less AFK/Noob top tiers Wins.

I've had too many games where it was impossible to win, as i said too many games end with 15-3 or worse, this is 100% waste of time, its not fun, its not interesting to play it, even from the winning side, its not OK to just drive forward and smash the entire enemy team because it is light years stronger, has better tanks for the selected map or just enemy has only 45% clueless players who cant even do 1-2 shots of damage.

 

Some ideas/proposals:

1-Remove XVM it is used mainly to focus the best enemy players which is unfair and if you have good stats enemy arty focus on you entire game even if you are bottom tier tank in 3-5-7 MM... disgusting.

1.1-Sometimes even your own teammates (FV183,Stage II) shoots you (jealous/troll players or idk. other reason)

2-Fix tier8 MM (it's more than half the time spawned in tier10 games where as we already said you depend too much on your top tiers) ... it is +2/-2 but you only see +1 and +2, while 1 out of 100 games you see some tier 6...

3-Fix the rigged/unfair MM for platoons so the players would start to play with friends again and have fun. (currently, any platoon different from t9 and 10 is forced to play bottom tier almost every game).

4-I want arty :arta: removed, that's not going to happen , but i think it will increase the fun playing the game considerably.

5-Maps are not very good (Glacier, Province, Paris....) i never want to see these maps again.

 

PS. i think WG knows what and how to fix it, but for some reason doesn't want to, i want to play Wot again, so i am waiting for some improvements because i hate the current state...



nakkipeppu #5 Posted 24 July 2018 - 08:11 PM

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I like +-2 MM and I like the template based MM. +-2 for variety and templates for being a sanity check for MM (old MM used to create really unplayable lineups from time to time).

 

I don't just like the frequency of the matches. Just force something like 10-25-30-25-10 split for +2, +1, 0, -1 -2 matches. I can wait in the queue. If there's too many of one tier of tanks in the queue, just dump them into single tier matches after 30 secs that don't count towards your match history.

 

 

 

 



Suurpolskija #6 Posted 24 July 2018 - 08:22 PM

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2 tier difference is fine. 3-5-7 template isn't. 

Agent_327 #7 Posted 24 July 2018 - 08:31 PM

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I like the +-2 tier spread. It adds complexity and diversity to the game. I would never have played even 10k battles in this game if there were no tier spread or even if there where +-1 tier.

_b_ #8 Posted 24 July 2018 - 08:34 PM

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Don't mind 2 tier difference to much.  Usually there are some stuff you still can do ... but current 3:5:7 does indeed annoy me at times :/

vasilinhorulezz #9 Posted 24 July 2018 - 09:09 PM

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+/-1 MM would be better, and it would be nice to have,

- It would relieve tier 8mm

- it would make balancing easier

- it would solve the pref mm tanks,

  Is-6, give it a bit better gun, solved, KV-5, give a better gun, solved, JP 88, give it better pen problem solved,

 

but, in my opinion the problem is not the +2 MM, it's the frequency of being bottom tier, especially in tier 8, where

you finally see a top tier game, after the constant tier 10 games where you get farmed by Type 5s, Mauses and Bobjects,

only to find your self in a one tier spread.

The solution would probably be, to make 5/10 the first priority, then same tier and finally 3/5/7 as a last resort.

And it's a pretty easy fix.



Nishi_Kinuyo #10 Posted 24 July 2018 - 09:25 PM

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Would mean a whole bunch of tanks would need to be rebalanced.

Also, I usually enjoy the challenge of being bottom/middle tier.



Solstad1069 #11 Posted 24 July 2018 - 10:37 PM

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+/-2 is fine, 3-5-7 is not.

 

I want the variation and extra challenge the +2/-2 mm gives you, but ffs let me be on TOP just as much as im BOTTOM.



Robbie_T #12 Posted 24 July 2018 - 11:01 PM

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And here we go again...

:popcorn:



Jigabachi #13 Posted 25 July 2018 - 12:43 AM

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I said it before and I will repeat it once again: When you complain about the MM, you completely forget how all the other problems, especially the amount of botlevel players and the broken tankbalance, have a HUGE impact on it. So why not fix... err... complain about those first?

XxKuzkina_MatxX #14 Posted 25 July 2018 - 01:55 AM

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View PostJigabachi, on 25 July 2018 - 01:43 AM, said:

I said it before and I will repeat it once again: When you complain about the MM, you completely forget how all the other problems, especially the amount of botlevel players and the broken tankbalance, have a HUGE impact on it. So why not fix... err... complain about those first?

 

 

  • Can't balance a tank for +2 MM then revert the whole MM scheme to +1, that wouldn't be too smart!
  • In a more forgiving environment like say, a +1 MM. It's easier to train AND retain the not so good players.

 

Hence, the MM problems are far more global and more detrimental to the game and not just a nuisances like the type 5 gun or the 268v4 armor.



LordMuffin #15 Posted 25 July 2018 - 04:57 AM

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View PostJigabachi, on 25 July 2018 - 12:43 AM, said:

I said it before and I will repeat it once again: When you complain about the MM, you completely forget how all the other problems, especially the amount of botlevel players and the broken tankbalance, have a HUGE impact on it. So why not fix... err... complain about those first?

Not necessarily.

 

MM is one of the issues, just like horrible tank balance and bad map design.

 

Bad players is not an issue though, they will always exist, and if you don't want them in your games, you want a league format instead. Take your pick. Either you get leagues, or you get bad players in your teams.

 

We can complain about MM in one specific MM thread while not forgetting that Obj 268 v4 is a BS tank.

Just like the we complain about bad maps like Mines encounter  (I won as south recently !!!) Without forgetting that the MM sucks.



Cobra6 #16 Posted 25 July 2018 - 09:07 AM

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3-5-7 is a terrible template and it should be a last resort template for the MM to use.

 

First it should go for either 5-10 or 5-5-5, after that it should try same tier MM, after that and ONLY as a last resort 3-5-7 should be used.

 

Cobra 6



Enforcer1975 #17 Posted 25 July 2018 - 09:40 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 25 July 2018 - 09:07 AM, said:

3-5-7 is a terrible template and it should be a last resort template for the MM to use.

 

First it should go for either 5-10 or 5-5-5, after that it should try same tier MM, after that and ONLY as a last resort 3-5-7 should be used.

 

Cobra 6

5-5-5 would be even worse since the power difference between the top and bottom tiers is what seems to cause problems for players most prominently in tier 8 when you are bottom tier. 

If the gap between 2 tiers was less 3-5-7 wouldn't be a problem but i do agree that 5-10 should be the first template for MM but tier 10 should have it's priority on one tier battles then 3-5-7. Even making GB a non option might be a solution to remove more tier 10 from tier 8 battles. 



LordMuffin #18 Posted 25 July 2018 - 09:42 AM

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I still propose a complete removal of template and a reintroduction of the old tank weight based system.

Simeon85 #19 Posted 25 July 2018 - 10:09 AM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 25 July 2018 - 09:40 AM, said:

5-5-5 would be even worse since the power difference between the top and bottom tiers is what seems to cause problems for players most prominently in tier 8 when you are bottom tier. 

If the gap between 2 tiers was less 3-5-7 wouldn't be a problem but i do agree that 5-10 should be the first template for MM but tier 10 should have it's priority on one tier battles then 3-5-7. Even making GB a non option might be a solution to remove more tier 10 from tier 8 battles. 

 

5-5-5 would at least would share the top tier power out a bit more. That is the main issue with 3-5-7 (well that and that it causes a lot of bottom tier games) all the team's main power is concentrated in 3 tanks, sometimes in just two tanks if there is a top tier arty, it means if one or two of those top tiers are terrible players the team will struggle to carry the weight of those failed top tiers.

 

At least if there were 5 top tiers you have more chance that one of the other top tier players might be able to pick up the slack of the donkey. 



Enforcer1975 #20 Posted 25 July 2018 - 10:21 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 25 July 2018 - 10:09 AM, said:

 

5-5-5 would at least would share the top tier power out a bit more. That is the main issue with 3-5-7 (well that and that it causes a lot of bottom tier games) all the team's main power is concentrated in 3 tanks, sometimes in just two tanks if there is a top tier arty, it means if one or two of those top tiers are terrible players the team will struggle to carry the weight of those failed top tiers.

 

At least if there were 5 top tiers you have more chance that one of the other top tier players might be able to pick up the slack of the donkey. 

 

And it also increases the chances of having 2 or more top tier arty....   :hiding:     :arta::arta::arta::arta::arta::arta::arta::arta::arta:

 

There is no cure for bot players....increasing the numbers just increases the chances of having even more of them and looking at how MM picks tanks the chances of more one sided top tiers ( skillwise and tankwise ) is bigger. 






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