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The planned buffs on prem tanks

premium KV-5 KV5 IS6 IS-6 matchmaker mm preferential update

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Poll: The new planned buffs to prem tanks (141 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Is it enough to buff the pen to 182mm for preferential-matchmaking-heavytanks?

  1. Yes (33 votes [23.40%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.40%

  2. No (49 votes [34.75%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 34.75%

  3. At least 200mm pen (59 votes [41.84%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 41.84%

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luxgil #1 Posted 26 July 2018 - 07:27 PM

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Hello everyone :)

 

I wanted to know what everybody thinks about their new plans to buff the preferential matchmaking tanks.

For example as asked in the poll, is 182mm enough to be competitive in tier 8 and 9 ?

What does everyone think about the armor buffs ?

 

Me personally, I can't imagine 182mm pen being enough. I always think about a type 4 heavy for example.


Edited by luxgil, 29 July 2018 - 03:19 AM.


falcon_96 #2 Posted 26 July 2018 - 08:13 PM

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For the T-34-3 182mm might be workable, but the 122mm heavies need at least 200mm to perform their combat role adequately, penetration will not make them OP vs lower tiers, since they already can pen them even with 175mm, but against higher tiers pen is essential. Those tanks are designed to be frontline close range brawlers, a role they cannot fulfill due to the poor pen and bad MM.

Derethim #3 Posted 26 July 2018 - 08:23 PM

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View Postfalcon_96, on 26 July 2018 - 08:13 PM, said:

For the T-34-3 182mm might be workable, but the 122mm heavies need at least 200mm to perform their combat role adequately, penetration will not make them OP vs lower tiers, since they already can pen them even with 175mm, but against higher tiers pen is essential. Those tanks are designed to be frontline close range brawlers, a role they cannot fulfill due to the poor pen and bad MM.

 

This I agree with. If the tank is mobile enough, having low pen is not that much of a problem, but for the heavies - they need at least 200 pen. 

nc30_guy #4 Posted 26 July 2018 - 09:25 PM

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No premium vehicle should be buffed if they cannot nerf over performing vehicles.

Derethim #5 Posted 27 July 2018 - 12:06 AM

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View Postnc30_guy, on 26 July 2018 - 09:25 PM, said:

No premium vehicle should be buffed if they cannot nerf over performing vehicles.

 

Your logic is arguably worse than Wargaming's.

slitth #6 Posted 27 July 2018 - 08:55 AM

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View PostDerethim, on 26 July 2018 - 11:06 PM, said:

 

Your logic is arguably worse than Wargaming's.

 

No, it is something WG have to consider because some players has unreasonable demands.

Each time WG improves something on a premium tank, undoing that change becomes impossible because players claim that they bought that tank in that improved state and therefore cannot legally be changed unless it is a improvement.

 

The preferred MM tanks are a perfect example of this.

WG want to improve the MM, to do this they think preferred has to go.

WG intends to improve the tanks that are affected by this so they are able to compete.

But they are facing 2 challenges.

A. Players are want to keep the preferred MM. (Despite what the power creep is doing to the tank that has it)

B. They have to very conservative with their improvement on the tanks, because players will try to prevent any attempt of bringing an over improved tank back on track.

 

As such I vote 182 mm is enough for now.

Because WG can always buff it if the tank does not perform as WG expects.

 

 



BSHDBCG #7 Posted 27 July 2018 - 09:18 AM

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View Postnc30_guy, on 26 July 2018 - 09:25 PM, said:

No premium vehicle should be buffed if they cannot nerf over performing vehicles.

 

Yeah like I wrote in another thread yesterday, baby steps. They can always improve them again later if it isn't enough, however they can not roll back over buffs.

Jigabachi #8 Posted 27 July 2018 - 09:24 AM

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View PostDerethim, on 27 July 2018 - 12:06 AM, said:

Your logic is arguably worse than Wargaming's.

No, he is actually right. If the game has huge problems with powercreep and balance in general, randomly buffing tanks makes everything worse, even when the intention is good.



SirTogII #9 Posted 27 July 2018 - 09:54 AM

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Once they sort out the MM these buffs will be fine. Feels odd but I actually think WG have finally understood and are prepared to deal with the problem. Too bad it’s gonna take them 6 months more...

Simeon85 #10 Posted 27 July 2018 - 09:57 AM

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A lot of tier 8s can't pen a type 4 frontally, even with premium ammo, that is the Type 4 being problematic.

 

Even if you buff it to 200mm (which is more than the T32 btw that sees tier 10) it won't change much because you still can't pen a Type 4 and you still won't pen a defender or whatever. If you want reliable pen on tier 8 you need 225 at least if not about 230, they are not going to give limited tanks that sort of pen. 

 

People need to remember that the more crucial thing about this change is not the minor buffs the pref-MM tanks are getting, it's the MM change, these tanks used to be fine not because they could easily pen other tier 8s (they couldn't, even an IS3 hull is tough for an IS6) but that these tanks mainly fought tier 6 and 7 tanks most of the time.

 

That is the key, these buffs are just little token quality of life buffs, what is important is that they fix tier 8 MM so that these tanks get into much less tier 9 games and consistently see tier 6 and 7. 


Edited by Simeon85, 27 July 2018 - 09:58 AM.


jabster #11 Posted 27 July 2018 - 10:13 AM

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View Postslitth, on 27 July 2018 - 07:55 AM, said:

 

No, it is something WG have to consider because some players has unreasonable demands.

Each time WG improves something on a premium tank, undoing that change becomes impossible because players claim that they bought that tank in that improved state and therefore cannot legally be changed unless it is a improvement.

 

The preferred MM tanks are a perfect example of this.

WG want to improve the MM, to do this they think preferred has to go.

WG intends to improve the tanks that are affected by this so they are able to compete.

But they are facing 2 challenges.

A. Players are want to keep the preferred MM. (Despite what the power creep is doing to the tank that has it)

B. They have to very conservative with their improvement on the tanks, because players will try to prevent any attempt of bringing an over improved tank back on track.

 

As such I vote 182 mm is enough for now.

Because WG can always buff it if the tank does not perform as WG expects.

 

The problem with removing pref. MM is that not a minor tweak but instead removing one of the main features of the tank. It’s seems entirely reasonable that players would expect compensation if that happened. Of course WG hardly help themselves by saying the problems with pref. MM, for the past two years, while at the same time selling tanks with pref. MM.



pihip #12 Posted 27 July 2018 - 10:20 AM

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View PostJigabachi, on 27 July 2018 - 09:24 AM, said:

No, he is actually right. If the game has huge problems with powercreep and balance in general, randomly buffing tanks makes everything worse, even when the intention is good.

 

Powercreep will always be a part of this game, it's the easiest way for WG to make people spend money on new lines or new premiums. I would be fine if said powercreep was as small as humanly possible though, to keep all tanks relevant and viable.

As for OP's question, I think the penetration for the 122mm guns should be in the upper 180s/lower 190s.

Dr_Oolen #13 Posted 27 July 2018 - 12:16 PM

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Depends on what the MM changes actually turn out to be. If, say, only 30% of games will be full t8s and t9 games and the remaining 70% of games are against mostly t7s/t6s, then sure, those changes are good (well, in that case one could argue the buffs wouldnt even be needed), but if the MM doesnt even get past 50% of games being with t6s/t7s present, then those buffs are completely pointless. 

 

These days, even if you are talking only about fighting t8 tanks, anything less than 200 pen is really bad on anything that isnt a light tank or something completely op in other characteristics. And less than 220 is bad against t8 heavies. So yeah... depending on the MM, they might have to buff the pens not to 182, but to at least 210 on the heavies and 192 on the meds.



Derethim #14 Posted 27 July 2018 - 01:10 PM

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View Postslitth, on 27 July 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

 

No, it is something WG have to consider because some players has unreasonable demands.

Each time WG improves something on a premium tank, undoing that change becomes impossible because players claim that they bought that tank in that improved state and therefore cannot legally be changed unless it is a improvement.

 

The preferred MM tanks are a perfect example of this.

WG want to improve the MM, to do this they think preferred has to go.

WG intends to improve the tanks that are affected by this so they are able to compete.

But they are facing 2 challenges.

A. Players are want to keep the preferred MM. (Despite what the power creep is doing to the tank that has it)

B. They have to very conservative with their improvement on the tanks, because players will try to prevent any attempt of bringing an over improved tank back on track.

 

As such I vote 182 mm is enough for now.

Because WG can always buff it if the tank does not perform as WG expects.

 

 

 

When you put it this way, I actually agree.

Sorry nc30_guy, you're right.



Cobra6 #15 Posted 27 July 2018 - 01:14 PM

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The buff to pen is only enough if seeing tier 9 becomes a rarity in these tanks like it used to be in the old matchmaker.

 

If you fight tier 9 more then 10% of the time the pen should be buffed further.

 

In my IS-6 I almost never fought in tier 9 battle, heck most of the time I wasn't even fighting in tier 8 ones either. Rather I was top tier most of the time fighting against tier 6 and 7.

 

Edit: Simeon85 beat me to it it seems, exactly what mean.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 27 July 2018 - 01:17 PM.


Procrastes #16 Posted 27 July 2018 - 01:45 PM

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Jingles, in one of his videos, made a point of the fact that since there are so comparatively few tanks out there with preferential matchmaking, said matchmaking can't be the real problem with the matchmaker. If his facts are correct, can there be some truth to this?

 

I generally don't pay much heed to conspiracy theories, but Jingles has come across as being rather well informed in the past - and he's not one to carelessly shoot his mouth off.

 

And yes, I do realize that this post would have been much more to the point if I could actually post a link to the video in question... but surely, someone other than me must have seen it as well?


Edited by Procrastes, 27 July 2018 - 01:47 PM.


Mr_Burrows #17 Posted 27 July 2018 - 01:50 PM

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View Postjabster, on 27 July 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

 

The problem with removing pref. MM is that not a minor tweak but instead removing one of the main features of the tank. It’s seems entirely reasonable that players would expect compensation if that happened. Of course WG hardly help themselves by saying the problems with pref. MM, for the past two years, while at the same time selling tanks with pref. MM.

 

...not to mention that WG dropped removal of PMM along with the bomb that "hey, we know you bought them already but we figure we will charge you for buffing them, up to 2000 gold". 

And as anyone with half a brain can understand, that did not land well. 



StinkyStonky #18 Posted 27 July 2018 - 01:54 PM

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Prior to 3/5/7 175 pen used to be adequate because as tier 7.5 tanks they used to see a lot of tier 6s and 7s, they might struggle against the tier 8s (like any oterh tier 7 would) and the occational tier 9 would be a problem, just as it would for any tier 7, but just like the tier 7s they never saw tier 10s.

 

The reason they are buffing the pens is because after this "fix" these tanks will STILL see LOTS of tier 8s and 9s and not very many tier 6s.

 

Think of it this way ....

 

Does WG want to revitalise the Pref MM tanks, so that there is little need to by the new OP prems they are planning,

or do they want you hardly play them and spend yet more money on new OP prems

 

I hear the new Polish heavy is going to be like a buffed Defender.  Do you want to pay 40 Euros for that or keep playing you pref MMs with their extra 7mm of pen ?



Balc0ra #19 Posted 27 July 2018 - 02:37 PM

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182 is still better than 175. As is the 225 gold pen vs 217. But is it ideal? IMO no. I was honestly hoping for at least 195 to 200 and 240 ish gold pen considering the tier 8 armor meta of late on the HT line. But instead, the T26E4 got pushed past 200 pen. Why? Idk. As it honestly did not need it. If so they need to do the same to the  +2 MM US meds. As now he beats every single one of them. 

 

But as always... Subject to change. 


Edited by Balc0ra, 27 July 2018 - 02:39 PM.


Wayneable #20 Posted 27 July 2018 - 02:46 PM

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If WG just fixed the MM or went back to the old one, most of these buffs would not be needed.

 

The cause of all these problem is the 3-5-7 MM, we all know it, WG knows it ( but will not admit to it.), but they would rather change everything else instead of dealing with the fact that they*edited*


Edited by NickMustaine, 30 July 2018 - 01:56 PM.
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