Jump to content


P.43 bis OP?


  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

HQ65 #1 Posted 30 July 2018 - 11:49 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 29747 battles
  • 591
  • [CMERC] CMERC
  • Member since:
    01-16-2012

Hi All,

just wondering what you think of the P.43 bis and if it is overpowered? I have 44 games with winrate of 64%...All of my games have really seemed pretty awesome for me.

 

I guess I am an avg player, is it me playing the tank very well, or is the tank itself that is just too good?

 

Thanks for input.



Enforcer1975 #2 Posted 30 July 2018 - 11:53 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 20912 battles
  • 10,917
  • Member since:
    05-04-2014
Not enough games to truly tell...

Cannes76 #3 Posted 30 July 2018 - 11:56 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 68614 battles
  • 1,764
  • [TAKE] TAKE
  • Member since:
    04-16-2011
It's overperforming on the global wincurves by about 2%.

Desyatnik_Pansy #4 Posted 30 July 2018 - 11:59 AM

    Bartender

  • Player
  • 16749 battles
  • 25,935
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    04-19-2013

View PostCannes76, on 30 July 2018 - 11:56 AM, said:

It's overperforming on the global wincurves by about 2%.

 

What's the other tanks in the line like, since I wouldn't be that surprised about it being a bit higher than a bunch of other Tier VIs since it's still fairly new. I certainly don't think highly of the P. 43 Bis, so I'd be rather surprised that it's actually that much better for players on average.



Cobra6 #5 Posted 30 July 2018 - 12:03 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 16340 battles
  • 15,986
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    09-17-2010

It's got a potato launcher so it can never be OP.

If it had vastly better gun handling then maybe it could become very good.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 30 July 2018 - 12:04 PM.


Balc0ra #6 Posted 30 July 2018 - 12:10 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 67337 battles
  • 17,048
  • [WALL] WALL
  • Member since:
    07-10-2012

It's only really strong when top tier if you fight close on a ridgeline. It has alpha and armor, so it can trade well when top tier. As it takes out most tier 5's with 2 shots. Top that with a fairly strong HE shell vs paper targets.

 

But in a +2 game vs the Cromwell? It lacks speed to bully good on most maps. And the gun can really kill the game for you when you play support roles at med to long range. Even as top tier. So no.. I would not say it's OP. But situational. 

 


Edited by Balc0ra, 30 July 2018 - 12:14 PM.


Keyanu #7 Posted 30 July 2018 - 12:10 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 10193 battles
  • 390
  • Member since:
    09-21-2011
The gun handling is absolutely terrible so not OP in my eyes

Enforcer1975 #8 Posted 30 July 2018 - 12:14 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 20912 battles
  • 10,917
  • Member since:
    05-04-2014

View PostCannes76, on 30 July 2018 - 11:56 AM, said:

It's overperforming on the global wincurves by about 2%.

 

Since a player generally becomes a better player in the long run could one say that 2% is normal? 

HQ65 #9 Posted 30 July 2018 - 12:18 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 29747 battles
  • 591
  • [CMERC] CMERC
  • Member since:
    01-16-2012

View PostBalc0ra, on 30 July 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

It's only really strong when top tier if you fight close on a ridgeline. It has alpha and armor, so it can trade well when top tier. As it takes out most tier 5's with 2 shots. Top that with a fairly strong HE shell vs paper targets.

 

But in a +2 game vs the Cromwell? It lacks speed to bully good on most maps. And the gun can really kill the game for you when you play support roles at med to long range. Even as top tier. So no.. I would not say it's OP. But situational. 

 

 

Isn't that sort of the rule for every tank? With MM the way it is, it is very hard to do anything when low tier....

Maybe this tank just really fits the way I play? Since I make a rule to play all tanks while grinding for at least 100 matches, I will have to see how things look in a couple of months.
 

TungstenHitman #10 Posted 30 July 2018 - 12:40 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 24083 battles
  • 4,388
  • Member since:
    08-28-2016

I encounter these Italian mediums a lot and the tier 4-7 has OP armor layout and overall I'd consider them over powered compared to other medium tank tier for tier from my dealing with them. Not massively so, but just slightly broken. Problem with them is this. Their armor rating is way too strong, it has extreme sloping frontally including the turret and both the hull and turret is really small, sleek and low profile overall so it's both hard to hit and hard to pen. It has best in class alpha and one of the best DPM so when you put that all together you have a tank that's tier for tier, is very powerful and too many ups with not so many downs. 

 

The downside is there gun but only in terms of shell velocity and gold ammo pen, it's aim times etc are all fine but, that's not much of a downside considering you have the armor to get in close and since its so low profile it also has excellent camo rating to allow it close the gap on tanks and not really make that slow shell much of a thing. 

 

Let me put it this way, from my dealings with Italian mediums of tier 4-7 (not tier8 onwards which have weak armor)I now press the 2 key when I see them, that's where those Italian tanks are at, they have a slither of lower plate to be considered a reliable weak point to shoot at which is hard to hit at those tiers, is very small and the tank traverse around well so it's an ever moving little weak spot. They have also retired my Panzer 4 H derp and any other derp tank featuring the 105 which barely knocks 30-80 dmg from these Italian tanks and the HEAT of 105mm pen will not go through them frontally. Thanks for killing off some more of my keepers WG, not many left now and when they go, I go.



Geno1isme #11 Posted 30 July 2018 - 12:42 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 43999 battles
  • 8,469
  • [TRYIT] TRYIT
  • Member since:
    09-03-2013

It's decent, but far from OP. Way too sluggish for that while not having any real armor. Only thing it has over the Vk-30.01 P is slightly better alpha, lower profile and better traverse rates, but that's compensated by worse gun-handling, mobility and viewrange.

 

Didn't perform very different during my grind than other T6 meds I grinded recently (like in the last two years):


Edited by Geno1isme, 30 July 2018 - 12:48 PM.


Baldrickk #12 Posted 30 July 2018 - 12:46 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 30507 battles
  • 14,626
  • [-TAH-] -TAH-
  • Member since:
    03-03-2013

View PostCobra6, on 30 July 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

It's got a potato launcher so it can never be OP.

If it had vastly better gun handling then maybe it could become very good.

 

Cobra 6

Potato launcher maybe, but that gun outclasses the short 88mm on the german HTs in terms of alpha, and doesn't really seem to lose DPM to make up for it.  Most meds don't get that alpha until tier 8, and some don't even get it then. The 90mm on the T20 at tier 7 used to make it special for having high alpha.

Gun handling is nowhere near as bad as a 105mm.  So it's not a sniper, it isn't meant to be.  Cromwell has terrible gun handling and armour, two places where this tank excels.

 

Really, I think it should be classed as a HT. 

It compares favourably against the M6 when you consider the sloping of the armour,  while being more mobile,  at the cost of 0.02 accuracy. 

I don't think it's particularly OP, but we shouldn't think of it as a medium tank.



PervyPastryPuffer #13 Posted 30 July 2018 - 12:49 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 31565 battles
  • 2,378
  • [VRTC] VRTC
  • Member since:
    09-13-2013

:sceptic:

 

Italian tanks.png

 

Yeah the bis for some reason is better than the ter, at least in my stats' case.


Edited by Tankyouverymuch2, 30 July 2018 - 12:50 PM.


Dava_117 #14 Posted 30 July 2018 - 12:51 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 20204 battles
  • 3,637
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-17-2014

View PostBaldrickk, on 30 July 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

Potato launcher maybe, but that gun outclasses the short 88mm on the german HTs in terms of alpha, and doesn't really seem to lose DPM to make up for it.  Most meds don't get that alpha until tier 8, and some don't even get it then. The 90mm on the T20 at tier 7 used to make it special for having high alpha.

Gun handling is nowhere near as bad as a 105mm.  So it's not a sniper, it isn't meant to be.  Cromwell has terrible gun handling and armour, two places where this tank excels.

 

Really, I think it should be classed as a HT. 

It compares favourably against the M6 when you consider the sloping of the armour,  while being more mobile,  at the cost of 0.02 accuracy. 

I don't think it's particularly OP, but we shouldn't think of it as a medium tank.

 

They should be HTs. P stands for "Pesante" that means heavy in italian. WG just classified them as MT to keep the crew training uniform along the line.

Geno1isme #15 Posted 30 July 2018 - 12:57 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 43999 battles
  • 8,469
  • [TRYIT] TRYIT
  • Member since:
    09-03-2013

View PostBaldrickk, on 30 July 2018 - 01:46 PM, said:

Potato launcher maybe, but that gun outclasses the short 88mm on the german HTs in terms of alpha, and doesn't really seem to lose DPM to make up for it.

 

Neither does the Vk-30.01 P.

 

View PostBaldrickk, on 30 July 2018 - 01:46 PM, said:

Cromwell has terrible gun handling and armour, two places where this tank excels.

 

Cromwell has mobility, a place where this tank suffers greatly. And how does this tank "excel" at gun-handling in any way? Bad aim-time, bad accuracy, mediocre soft-stats, bad shell velocity and just average gun-depression. It's not a derp, sure, but "excellent" isn't exactly the term I'd use to describe it.



Solstad1069 #16 Posted 30 July 2018 - 01:16 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 41019 battles
  • 3,249
  • Member since:
    06-15-2013
No its overall a mediocre tank compared to many other tier 6 mediums.

Baldrickk #17 Posted 30 July 2018 - 01:25 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 30507 battles
  • 14,626
  • [-TAH-] -TAH-
  • Member since:
    03-03-2013

View PostGeno1isme, on 30 July 2018 - 12:57 PM, said:

 

Neither does the Vk-30.01 P.

 

 

Cromwell has mobility, a place where this tank suffers greatly. And how does this tank "excel" at gun-handling in any way? Bad aim-time, bad accuracy, mediocre soft-stats, bad shell velocity and just average gun-depression. It's not a derp, sure, but "excellent" isn't exactly the term I'd use to describe it.

 Compared to the Cromwell, it excels. 

And the VK P has the same alpha as the heavies. 

https://tanks.gg/com...r-131~vk-3601-h

 



lnfernaI #18 Posted 30 July 2018 - 01:28 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 29190 battles
  • 3,700
  • [ALLGE] ALLGE
  • Member since:
    09-15-2012

Meh,not really.

There's Bromwell,T-34-85,Type 58,and a bunch of other JOAT mediums.



Desyatnik_Pansy #19 Posted 30 July 2018 - 01:32 PM

    Bartender

  • Player
  • 16749 battles
  • 25,935
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    04-19-2013

View PostBaldrickk, on 30 July 2018 - 01:25 PM, said:

 Compared to the Cromwell, it excels. 

 

To be honest, it doesn't really excel at much. It's better at firing on the move and during tank traverse (0.23 vs. 0.19) and that's basically it. Cromwell has better aimtime (only slightly at 2.3 vs 2.4), but the accuracy is fairly different (0.36 on Cromwell vs. 0.4 On the Bis). The biggest difference (besides alpha, though we're not going to pretend that that's not important, it very much is of course) between the two comes in their shell velocity, which is 785 vs. 700, and 984 vs. 750 with APCR. 



Baldrickk #20 Posted 30 July 2018 - 01:50 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 30507 battles
  • 14,626
  • [-TAH-] -TAH-
  • Member since:
    03-03-2013

View PostDesyatnik_Pansy, on 30 July 2018 - 01:32 PM, said:

 

To be honest, it doesn't really excel at much. It's better at firing on the move and during tank traverse (0.23 vs. 0.19) and that's basically it. Cromwell has better aimtime (only slightly at 2.3 vs 2.4), but the accuracy is fairly different (0.36 on Cromwell vs. 0.4 0.38 On the Bis). The biggest difference (besides alpha, though we're not going to pretend that that's not important, it very much is of course) between the two comes in their shell velocity, which is 785 vs. 700, and 984 vs. 750 with APCR. 

Ftfy

And don't forget that movement dispersion penalties are affected by speed.

The Cromwell being significantly faster suffers more than the raw numbers alone suggest. 

 

Crommy definitely makes a better sniper, but then again the Bis is more of a HT. It doesn't really need to snipe.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users